The public perception of Martial Artists.

[lklawson]

I normally can see through people. I can see that they train to fight (real fight), not for sport, not for hobby, not for exercise.

This deserves its own thread. I'd love to jump on it like a trampoline but I don't want to stink up this thread with it.

 

[oftheherd1]

One of my ex-girlfriends trained in Taekwondo for more than 5 years, and she felt insecure whenever she walked by herself in some quiet area at night. I don't think she was able to use any of her martial arts trainings in the street. She had no fear competing in amateur Taekwondo tournaments, albeit never ended up in Top 3. But when it came to walking alone at night, she got scared easily.

I'm not talking about gender though. I know a couple of female martial artists that I'm sure can beat the crap out of male assailants in the street.

I'm talking more about the mentality. Some martial artists can be very confident in the class, but when it comes to possible threat in the street, their confidence level can dissipate quickly.

Some people have private fears that simple training in punching, striking, blocking, and kata will not put aside. They may need help in conquering that fear or they will always be afraid. In a dangerous situation however, they may still revert to training and surprise even themselves.

Aside from they're very good at their arts, their training mentality is different. I normally can see through people. I can see that they train to fight (real fight), not for sport, not for hobby, not for exercise.

Some people do seem more serious about the possible uses of MA training.

Mentality will only get you so far. You can have the firmest most indignant mentality in the world, and your bones will still break, your organs will still rupture, and youll still choke when someone takes you.

Also, train to fight? What kind of fight are they training for exactly, and are they likely to get into that kind of fight? How is what theyre doing training them for that particular kind of fight, as opposed to any of the other things? Or is it just their mentality that makes it so. Are they learning how to avoid getting into a fight in the first place, or are they training to go toe to toe with an adult male, as if thats ever going to happen under circumstances they couldnt avoid?

I'm sorry, the above doesn't make a lot of sense to me. How many types of fights do you know of? I don't mean number of assailants or locations. I'm thinking more along the lines of training, sport/ritual, monkey dancing, all-out-knockdown-dragout live or die types of fighting.

Also I agree that mentality by itself won't win contests/fights, but it will go a long way. But then I am one who believes in Ki. I understand not everyone does. But I wonder if you really believe that mental attitude has no place in training or actually fighting?

 

[WaterGal]

One of my ex-girlfriends trained in Taekwondo for more than 5 years, and she felt insecure whenever she walked by herself in some quiet area at night. I don't think she was able to use any of her martial arts trainings in the street. She had no fear competing in amateur Taekwondo tournaments, albeit never ended up in Top 3. But when it came to walking alone at night, she got scared easily.

I'm not talking about gender though. I know a couple of female martial artists that I'm sure can beat the crap out of male assailants in the street.

I'm talking more about the mentality. Some martial artists can be very confident in the class, but when it comes to possible threat in the street, their confidence level can dissipate quickly.

I think that's healthy. What we learn in the dojang is/can be applicable to self-defense, of course, but friendly competition with someone who's trying to not injure you is very different from fighting off some psycho who wants to harm or kill you. I think everyone should be careful and watch their back when they're walking in a quiet area at night, and not expose themselves to danger unnecessarily.

I'd like to think I could deal with an attacker. I train with men a lot, in both TKD and HKD, and can hold my own reasonably well, at least when the guy is less experienced. But in a real life self-defense situation, am I going to keep my cool and remember what I've learned, or will I panic? I don't know. I hope I don't have to find out.

 

[Cyriacus]

I'm sorry, the above doesn't make a lot of sense to me. How many types of fights do you know of? I don't mean number of assailants or locations. I'm thinking more along the lines of training, sport/ritual, monkey dancing, all-out-knockdown-dragout live or die types of fighting.

Also I agree that mentality by itself won't win contests/fights, but it will go a long way. But then I am one who believes in Ki. I understand not everyone does. But I wonder if you really believe that mental attitude has no place in training or actually fighting?

Types of fights? Well, fight to me means two people or more push each other around, square off, and fight. Or just the fight part, emphasis on two people doing it, and not just one. Just like you said. When was the last time you saw a women get herself into a situation like that with an adult male?

Mentality does go a long way. Assuming you make it to the part where youre actually doing any kind of fighting against the other person.
I never said it has no place, i said it doesnt help you much if what you really need is to do something, rather than just have the mentality to do something. To provide an example, check out the number of people in the military throughout history who practically needed to be beaten into actually firing their weapons at the enemy. And thats in much clearer circumstances.

 

[oftheherd1]

Types of fights? Well, fight to me means two people or more push each other around, square off, and fight. Or just the fight part, emphasis on two people doing it, and not just one. Just like you said. When was the last time you saw a women get herself into a situation like that with an adult male?

Mentality does go a long way. Assuming you make it to the part where youre actually doing any kind of fighting against the other person.
I never said it has no place, i said it doesnt help you much if what you really need is to do something, rather than just have the mentality to do something. To provide an example, check out the number of people in the military throughout history who practically needed to be beaten into actually firing their weapons at the enemy. And thats in much clearer circumstances.

Thanks for the clarification. I see your point that maybe fights is a more narrow word. I guess I was thinking pretty much along the lines of different types of, shall we say confrontations, require different types of responses.

I guess we are close to the same thing on mental attitude. IMHO, confidence and right mental attitude aren't much good with out ability and training. And vice versa. If that is what you mean, I agree, and guess we are just saying the same thing with different words or from different perspectives.

 

[Cyriacus]

I guess I was thinking pretty much along the lines of different types of, shall we say confrontations, require different types of responses.

Exactly. Which is why i wanted to know in what context he thought they could beat up a male attacker. Even confrontation comes with the idea that someone is confronted first. Lets just call it a situation.

I guess we are close to the same thing on mental attitude. IMHO, confidence and right mental attitude aren't much good with out ability and training. And vice versa. If that is what you mean, I agree, and guess we are just saying the same thing with different words or from different perspectives.

And im enjoying every second of the discussion.

 

[nocturnal_]

Exactly. Which is why i wanted to know in what context he thought they could beat up a male attacker. Even confrontation comes with the idea that someone is confronted first.

It's a bit off topic, so I'll keep it brief here. What I meant when I said they train to fight (real fight) was: they're the ones who are more likely to start the fight, rather than the ones that defend themselves from a fight.

 

[Cyriacus]

It's a bit off topic, so I'll keep it brief here. What I meant when I said they train to fight (real fight) was: they're the ones who are more likely to start the fight, rather than the ones that defend themselves from a fight.

Define 'real fight'.

Theyre likely to start the fight? So basically they go around playing childish dominance games? Riiight.
Well, whatever makes them feel like teh tuff gurls :uhyeah: Sounds like theyd be easy to do away with.

 

[nocturnal_]

Theyre likely to start the fight? So basically they go around playing childish dominance games? Riiight.
Well, whatever makes them feel like teh tuff gurls :uhyeah: Sounds like theyd be easy to do away with.

My ex-girlfriend was the one talking about she's being a tough girl just because she trained Taekwondo for 5 years and participated amateur tournaments. But she's scared when she's walking alone at night in a quiet street.

These 2 females that I said were likely to start a fight aren't the same type as my ex-girlfriends. I've seen one of them smashing a beer bottle against someone's head in a bar. Of course, she didn't use martial arts there to smash the bottle, but you should get the idea about the mentality factor there. They're always looking for opportunities to hurt someone. They would probably fit into a bikie gang that always look for troubles, except that they're female. They're not small either. Definitely not fat, but the big-boned type.

 

[Cyriacus]

My ex-girlfriend was the one talking about she's being a tough girl just because she trained Taekwondo for 5 years and participated amateur tournaments. But she's scared when she's walking alone at night in a quiet street.

Yep. Thats probably a really good thing. Shes less likely to be victimized that way.

These 2 females that I said were likely to start a fight aren't the same type as my ex-girlfriends. I've seen one of them smashing a beer bottle against someone's head in a bar. Of course, she didn't use martial arts there to smash the bottle, but you should get the idea about the mentality factor there. They're always looking for opportunities to hurt someone. They would probably fit into a bikie gang that always look for troubles, except that they're female. They're not small either. Definitely not fat, but the big-boned type.

Well, shes lucky his five or six mates didnt beat her head in and sodomize her with a piece of glass.
Just saying.

 

[nocturnal_]

Well, shes lucky his five or six mates didnt beat her head in and sodomize her with a piece of glass.
Just saying.

In Australia, where you, me and her currently live, it's very unlikely to happen, especially inside a bar.

Anyway, my point is mentality goes a long way. But that's another topic. We've been deviating from the topic enough.

 

[Cyriacus]

In Australia, where you, me and her currently live, it's very unlikely to happen, especially inside a bar.

Exactly.

 

[Zero]

In Australia, where you, me and her currently live, it's very unlikely to happen, especially inside a bar.

Anyway, my point is mentality goes a long way. But that's another topic. We've been deviating from the topic enough.

I'm pretty disappointed in the average Aussie male in general or Aussie male MAist then!! Barring the sodomy by glass, I would have thought most mates would not have issue decking a lippy shiela who just smashed a bottle over his friends pate??!

Back on to the topic, if there is one, I would have thought this kind of mentality is exactly that which will get these girls trampled one day when they push the wrong guy/guys too far in the wrong place. Smashing bottles over heads does not in itself strike me as much of the proper "fight mentality" at all. I do concede that a certain level of brutality can help out a long way in a tricky situation but this does not count for more than a skilled MAist simply willing to use whatever weapons are to hand or techniques present themselves.

Edit: Oops, I see I'm not really back on the topic at all.

 

[Cyriacus]

I'm pretty disappointed in the average Aussie male in general or Aussie male MAist then!! Barring the sodomy by glass, I would have thought most mates would not have issue decking a lippy shiela who just smashed a bottle over his friends pate??!

Back on to the topic, if there is one, I would have thought this kind of mentality is exactly that which will get these girls trampled one day when they push the wrong guy/guys too far in the wrong place. Smashing bottles over heads does not in itself strike me as much of the proper "fight mentality" at all. I do concede that a certain level of brutality can help out a long way in a tricky situation but this does not count for more than a skilled MAist simply willing to use whatever weapons are to hand or techniques present themselves.

Edit: Oops, I see I'm not really back on the topic at all.

Ill just offer a quick salutation for articulating the same stuff i was thinking a bit better. I suck at explaining things with anything other than analogies, comparisons, and statements. *Insert suitable emoticon*

 

[Happy-Papi]

Hi Guys,

Based on my small knowledge that here in Japan people don't get a WOW nor get intimidated by MAist probably because that MAist are just everywhere and is a peaceful country. There are hardcore practitioners but only a handful and most have had some kind of training from school MA/physical education or had some training when they were young. MA is getting less popular and most kids would go for baseball or soccer.

My wife is Japanese and I asked her and her friends on their perception to MA and they laughed because they remembered certain classmates who were in the school's judo team and how they eat a lot, bald head and stink. I also casually asked several kids who were not doing MA and for most of them MA is just a sport and stink. Going back to the dojos, we do get that stink from time to time especially with guys who didn't wash their gis and it's really annoying. Not everyone is stinking but the ones who does stink really gives MA a stinking image.

 

[Zero]

Hi Guys,

Based on my small knowledge that here in Japan people don't get a WOW nor get intimidated by MAist probably because that MAist are just everywhere and is a peaceful country. There are hardcore practitioners but only a handful and most have had some kind of training from school MA/physical education or had some training when they were young. MA is getting less popular and most kids would go for baseball or soccer.

My wife is Japanese and I asked her and her friends on their perception to MA and they laughed because they remembered certain classmates who were in the school's judo team and how they eat a lot, bald head and stink. I also casually asked several kids who were not doing MA and for most of them MA is just a sport and stink. Going back to the dojos, we do get that stink from time to time especially with guys who didn't wash their gis and it's really annoying. Not everyone is stinking but the ones who does stink really gives MA a stinking image.

Hehe! Now that is a lot of stink!!
Those damn MAists, don't they ever wash?!!

 

[nocturnal_]

MA is getting less popular and most kids would go for baseball or soccer.

It's not only in Japan. In all countries that I have visited, MA is far less popular than ball sports. MA is still popular as a hobby, but very few people can make a decent career out of it. You get heaps more money, probably less injuries, more fame in ball sports.

 

[nocturnal_]

I'm pretty disappointed in the average Aussie male in general or Aussie male MAist then!! Barring the sodomy by glass, I would have thought most mates would not have issue decking a lippy shiela who just smashed a bottle over his friends pate??!

Back on to the topic, if there is one, I would have thought this kind of mentality is exactly that which will get these girls trampled one day when they push the wrong guy/guys too far in the wrong place. Smashing bottles over heads does not in itself strike me as much of the proper "fight mentality" at all. I do concede that a certain level of brutality can help out a long way in a tricky situation but this does not count for more than a skilled MAist simply willing to use whatever weapons are to hand or techniques present themselves.

Edit: Oops, I see I'm not really back on the topic at all.

When a male tries to act violently towards a female inside a bar, you can bet your life savings that a few (or a bunch, if the bar is crowded) other males will try to interfere. Many desperate alcohol-fueled young men would be more than willing to be the heroes to save the 'damsel in distress', even if the 'damsel in distress' acts violently (towards another male that's not their friends) first.

A male physically attacking a female inside a bar, no matter what, will have serious problem with the law. Many witnesses will be in favor of the female.

 

[Cyriacus]

When a male tries to act violently towards a female inside a bar, you can bet your life savings that a few (or a bunch, if the bar is crowded) other males will try to interfere. Many desperate alcohol-fueled young men would be more than willing to be the heroes to save the 'damsel in distress', even if the 'damsel in distress' acts violently (towards another male that's not their friends) first.

A male physically attacking a female inside a bar, no matter what, will have serious problem with the law. Many witnesses will be in favor of the female.

Huh. Every time ive seen a woman get hit (three and counting!) people look, but no touchie. Guess they may be flukes.

Also, witnesses are in favor of the victim. Remember: The court has to prove youre guilty, more than you have to prove your innocence. Gender isnt a factor in that.

 

[lklawson]

When a male tries to act violently towards a female inside a bar, you can bet your life savings that a few (or a bunch, if the bar is crowded) other males will try to interfere. Many desperate alcohol-fueled young men would be more than willing to be the heroes to save the 'damsel in distress', even if the 'damsel in distress' acts violently (towards another male that's not their friends) first.

A male physically attacking a female inside a bar, no matter what, will have serious problem with the law. Many witnesses will be in favor of the female.

So can we add "Bars" to the list of places you've not been?