Choosing the right art

[BradderzH]

Making the choice: Wing Chun Or Karate


I am facing a difficult choice right now. I recently abandoned my Karate training as all we ever seemed to to was practice kata with some occasional pair work. We never sparred or pressure tested any of our techniques. I wanted to learn about self defence but even after getting my black belt I still didn’t feel confident in my abilities, so I left the club.


After about a year of doing not martial arts at all, I began my search for a new club. This is where Wing Chun comes in. There were no Karate clubs nearby enough that trained in the way I wanted, but I had a friend who used to train Wing Chun at a local club and I knew they trained hard, in a way that I would like, so I began training there.


I’m currently 7 months in, and my Sifu reckons that I have a natural talent and pick the techniques up quickly. I feel that Wing Chun is very effective and now I do feel confident that I could use what I have learned in a real self defence situation.


My only problem is that I have no real interest in Wing Chun...I’m learning it out of necessity. I only went to that club because I knew I would learn the aspects of self defence that I needed (live testing, sparring). I have learned a great deal from training there, but I feel that my heart lies with Karate. But is that just me missing my old art? I still feel that my Karate techniques would work in the street but only in theory as I never had the chance to test them.


My Sifu once told me that a Wing Chun guy would beat a Karate guy as Karate relies too much on distance...and although I feel that it depends on the practitioners I found myself agreeing, even though I don’t care about who wins as it is rare that I would fight another Martial Artist on the street (and even if I did, the situation and atmosphere would be totally different to a sparring session).


At this moment in time, I feel that Wing Chun is superior to Karate (only through what I have experienced), but Karate is what I WANT to do. I have seen various Karate guys on the internet (Iain Abernathy, Karate Culture) doing things that fit with what I want, but if I feel that Wing Chun would deal with the same situation better, which art should I pursue?


Thanks,

H

 

[Flying Crane]

Train with the teacher who can give you the best quality training, with the caveat that you are comfortable working with him and you enjoy the training and you find it meaningful.

If the wing chun meets these conditions, train there. If not, then don’t.

You can only get hung up on wanting to do one style over another IF the style is available to you (a school exists close enough that you can attend regularly, you can afford it, and the class schedule fits your personal schedule), and IF the school fits the above criteria. If this isn’t true then there is no sense getting hung up on specific styles.

 

[Headhunter]

In my opinion any teacher who says something like "our style will always beat this style" isn't anyone I'd want to listen to

 

[Headhunter]

If you want to do karate then do karate. Who cares what's more effective this is a hobby so it makes sense to do what you enjoy most

 

[skribs]

Is your Wing Chun sifu supposed to say "I teach Wing Chun, but Karate can beat Wing Chun, but come take my class anyway"?

A good karate guy will beat a bad wing chun guy. A good wing chun guy will beat a bad karate guy. If both are bad, it's just random luck. If both are good, it depends on what rules you're fighting under, if you know the other guy's style enough to anticipate it, and probably a few other factors.

Try not to think about it in terms of Wing Chun vs. Karate. Ask yourself these questions:

1. Do you like the instructor?
2. Are you able to afford and regularly make the classes?
3. Are you having fun learning Wing Chun?
4. Do you feel you are getting out of Wing Chun what you need?

If your goal is self defense, and you feel you could effectively use Wing Chun, then go ahead and keep going! If you don't think it's effective, don't like your teacher, or aren't having fun, then it's time to shop around for a school that maybe you like better.

 

[skribs]

In my opinion any teacher who says something like "our style will always beat this style" isn't anyone I'd want to listen to

I think you just take it with a grain of salt. When our students are at my school I tell them that Taekwondo is the best. When our students move and have to leave my school, I tell them "the art doesn't matter, the instructor does."

 

[geezer]

...My only problem is that I have no real interest in Wing Chun... I have learned a great deal from training there, but I feel that my heart lies with Karate.

I'm a Wing Chun guy but, even so, you've gotta go with your heart. If you've been doing WC for the better part of a year and you still feel that way about Karate, then go for it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

- The Karate turning back kick is a very powerful weapon.
- The WC center line principle is a very powerful strategy.

Since there are not mutual exclusive, you can train both.

One day when you find out that you are not your girlfriend's only boyfriend. You are just her spare, or even her 2nd spare. After that day, you will not be loyalty to any single girl for the rest of your life. You will always date 3 girls at the same time (one girlfriend, one 1st spare girlfriend, one 2nd spare girlfriend).

In MA. that's called "cross training".

 

[now disabled]

I don't want to upset ya but ummm since you have got your shodan now you start learning.

As far as self defense why do you think you have not got that ?

Pressure testing as you put it isn't necessarily sparring

 

[now disabled]

I have another suggestion

Why not try a grappling art , you already have the striking and kicking so possibly grappling may give you a different challenge

If you study any of the "traditional arts" (lets not start a debate over what is trad and what not lol) then in the modern world some of the techniques or names of the techniques may not seem applicable but with a bit of lateral thinking they may well be and Kata is Kata some like some don't but it is a big part of the more trad based arts

 

[TSDTexan]

To your sifu... I would respectfully say that his understanding of what karate is.... is superficial.

While there exist the more popular brands of karate (Shotokan etc) who have gotten the highest levels of public exposure, and have dropped a huge amount of grappling in favor of kicking at max range.

That doesn't mean Karate as a whole is the art that he thinks it is.

My recommendation is find a TKD that actively spars. While you spar try to execute your karate techniques.

Or get a bunch of guys together who like martial arts to do functional cross-sparring.

It can be frustrating if your brand of karate doesn't dial it up. But if your style doesn't do the iron body conditioning, they really open themselves up to "student injury, parent sues" and a lot of people seem to be pain averse... so schools compromise the art to keep the lights on, and doors open.

 

[Anarax]

My only problem is that I have no real interest in Wing Chun...I’m learning it out of necessity. I only went to that club because I knew I would learn the aspects of self defence that I needed (live testing, sparring). I have learned a great deal from training there, but I feel that my heart lies with Karate.

You have to want to learn to learn, no that's not a typo. There's been training sessions that I knew would going to push me to my limits, but I still wanted to go. If you find yourself reluctant to train you're not going to learn a whole lot. You have to enjoy it to a certain degree to reap the full benefits.

My Sifu once told me that a Wing Chun guy would beat a Karate guy as Karate relies too much on distance...and although I feel that it depends on the practitioners I found myself agreeing, even though I don’t care about who wins as it is rare that I would fight another Martial Artist on the street (and even if I did, the situation and atmosphere would be totally different to a sparring session).

That's an ignorant thing for your Sifu to say, style bashing to prop your own style up is never a good sign. There's good and bad in all styles, it really depends on the training methodologies and the individual school itself.

At this moment in time, I feel that Wing Chun is superior to Karate (only through what I have experienced), but Karate is what I WANT to do. I have seen various Karate guys on the internet (Iain Abernathy, Karate Culture) doing things that fit with what I want, but if I feel that Wing Chun would deal with the same situation better, which art should I pursue?

Did you try out the schools that don't train the way you're looking for?

 

[JR 137]

I hate to break it to your Wing Chun Sifu, but all karate isn’t standing at long range and keeping opponents away using kicks and punches. Me being a karate man, that’s about as smart as me saying all Wing Chun does is practice against a wooden dummy that doesn’t move.

I understand your frustration with your former karate dojo. It sounds like you really liked the place, people and the principles, but the training methods weren’t for you. Did you speak to your sensei about it? How long were you there after earning your shodan? If you were there for a while afterwards, was it more of the same or entirely different?

Ultimately, you have to do what makes you happy. There’s no perfect place out there, except maybe where I train It’s just about perfect for me, but I’ve got a few minor (I hate to call them) complaints.

Take a look around your area and see what else is available. What about something like Judo? You’d still have the traditions, belt system, etc., yet it would be completely different too.

 

[_Simon_]

G'day BradderzH

I feel I can speak to this a little as it was sort of similar to my situation in a way. I moved away from my old style to the new one because people said it was more effective, or was "real karate". I trained in it for about 8 years, and while there was alot I enjoyed, I kept going purely out of obligation. I just wasn't enjoying it, yet kept going because I felt I "should". I trained it longer than I really needed to, and whilst I got so much out of it I eventually knew in my heart that I had to move on, and training to like this doesn't suit me anymore.

It was a real battle between the head, emotions and heart here hehe. But I finally left and went to find what really clicked with me (still currently doing so).

All I can say is, follow your heart in this. Seriously. Listen to what's jumping out inside you. What is it you really, truly want? It sounds like you know the answer to your own question, but it's your call ultimately. Sounds like you love karate, perhaps even looking around at different styles of karate? But more important than that, is choosing an instructor and dojo. Visit a few places and feel the energy and vibe of the place and you'll know when it clicks.

"Stop spending time you don't have doing things you don't want to do with people you don't like." Sarah Knight

Let us know how you go!

 

[Danny T]

It's not what you train but how you train.
I'm sure you know karate is a catch all term to describe many different types of Okinawan & Japanese training methods/styles.
Wing Chun is a particular training method of Chinese martial training.
Ultimately it comes down to you being the art and it is what you can do with what you have learned. If you enjoy one method of training and practice over the other then find an instructor in that method. Speak with him/her as to what your goals are for training (self defense and pressure testing) and is that something they do. Keep searching until you find such.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I think you just take it with a grain of salt. When our students are at my school I tell them that Taekwondo is the best. When our students move and have to leave my school, I tell them "the art doesn't matter, the instructor does."

So you actively lie to your students to keep them there?

 

[skribs]

So you actively lie to your students to keep them there?

1. In the area I live, Taekwondo IS the best art. Because there are two different Taekwondo schools with really good Masters leading them.
   
   
2. The students who usually ask me this kind of question are in the 10-14 year old range. While they're able on a superficial level to understand concepts like "it matters what your goals are" and "the teacher is more important than the specific art", what they're really looking for is "am I learning something worth knowing." And the answer to that is yes.
   
   
3. What business or salesman does NOT stand behind his product? If I were running a fruit stand and you asked who had the freshest fruit in town, and I say "oh, that guy down the block." Would I get much business? No. Most people would go over to him.
   
   
4. If we can agree it's more about the master and student than the art itself, then we can agree there aren't better arts than Taekwondo. So technically it's tied in first place.

Most of the time this question is spurned by:

• I just learned about Jiu-Jitsu, is that better?
• My cousin takes Karate and says it's the best. Should I quit Taekwondo and do karate?
• My uncle says Taekwondo is useless and I should do Krav Maga.

I'm just trying to make our students not take the advice of one random person with an obvious bias towards another art, and quit our school because one person doesn't like Taekwondo.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

1. In the area I live, Taekwondo IS the best art. Because there are two different Taekwondo schools with really good Masters leading them.
   
   
2. The students who usually ask me this kind of question are in the 10-14 year old range. While they're able on a superficial level to understand concepts like "it matters what your goals are" and "the teacher is more important than the specific art", what they're really looking for is "am I learning something worth knowing." And the answer to that is yes.
   
   
3. What business or salesman does NOT stand behind his product? If I were running a fruit stand and you asked who had the freshest fruit in town, and I say "oh, that guy down the block." Would I get much business? No. Most people would go over to him.
   
   
4. If we can agree it's more about the master and student than the art itself, then we can agree there aren't better arts than Taekwondo. So technically it's tied in first place.

Most of the time this question is spurned by:

• I just learned about Jiu-Jitsu, is that better?
• My cousin takes Karate and says it's the best. Should I quit Taekwondo and do karate?
• My uncle says Taekwondo is useless and I should do Krav Maga.

I'm just trying to make our students not take the advice of one random person with an obvious bias towards another art, and quit our school because one person doesn't like Taekwondo.

That makes more sense. I can see you explaining things differently to a preteen/teen than an adult...forgot that was your primary student base. It seemed out of character for you to try and 'trick' your students, but I was also thinking of them in terms of adults.

 

[drop bear]

Take 6 months off do a fast track MMA program and do a fight.

Then use that knowledge to weigh against whatever issues you have.

 

[JR 137]

I'm just trying to make our students not take the advice of one random person with an obvious bias towards another art, and quit our school because one person doesn't like Taekwondo.

Do you know what the best part of that great advice is? 99% of those morons saying that have never stepped foot in ANY MA school.

Or they’re about as sharp as Isiah90.

Or both.