The Mythology of the streetfighter

[JadecloudAlchemist]

I have been in fights in my youth and thanks to Youtube I can see countless fights.

As Martial artists why is the streetfighter feared or put on a pedestal?

I have and seen fights and also I have been in fights and these things seem to come into play:

Hands are usually at chest level

When striking the face is turned away to avoid getting hit.

Strikes are "wild" or "aim for the fence"

Swings are with a down motion with the back hand.

Rushing and clinches.

Most opponent or dominant goes forward.

Overly commited off balance.

Anything else you can add?

 

[Sukerkin]

I am at a loss to elaborate, JCA. I have been in one 'street-fight' in my life. I was on the wrong end of three-to-one odds and they were using improvised weapons.

I was petrified but I 'won' with astonishing ease. The guilt is a different matter.

I think the 'street-fighter' cachet comes from a supposition of toughness. In my fight, if the chap whose leg I broke got back up, or the fellow whose arm I broke was unphased, then the affair would have ended badly for me.

There are people like that out in the world, indeed I am friends with a couple of them. But most street-fighters are untrained 'toughs' who are used to violence and have a better than usual tolerance for pain. Break a couple of vital things, such as knees or elbows; that tends to put a dent in their enthusiasm.

Note: this 'research' is based on a sample size of one .

 

[Tez3]

I think it depends of what the definition of 'streetfighter' is, here it tends to be a fighter who fights bare knuckle in pub car park arranged fights or in gypsy matches. Their skill level is quite good but there are rules to the fights. A street brawler however is just someone who gets into random fights and tends not to be very good.
The gypsy matches tend to be quite good fun though probably not for the faint hearted, I have a DVD of some. Quite often gypsies will call someone out in a pub if there's been trouble and everyone goes out to the carpark, the fights however tend to be fair, one on one and if you beat them they don't all pile in. And the women fight too!

 

[Sukerkin]

I wasn't aware that this sort of thing still went on, Tez. Good to know that the concept of a rough but 'fair' fight still holds true outside of the biker circles (which are the ones I'm used to).

 

[Tez3]

I am at a loss to elaborate, JCA. I have been in one 'street-fight' in my life. I was on the wrong end of three-to-one odds and they were using improvised weapons.

I was petrified but I 'won' with astonishing ease. The guilt is a different matter.

I think the 'street-fighter' cachet comes from a supposition of toughness. In my fight, if the chap whose leg I broke got back up, or the fellow whose arm I broke was unphased, then the affair would have ended badly for me.

There are people like that out in the world, indeed I am friends with a couple of them. But most street-fighters are untrained 'toughs' who are used to violence and have a better than usual tolerance for pain. Break a couple of vital things, such as knees or elbows; that tends to put a dent in their enthusiasm.

Note: this 'research' is based on a sample size of one .

Ah you need to come out drinking with us lol! Especially down in Brigg in Lincolnshire when the Horse Fair is on!
You are totally correct about the pain tolerance thing though, my instructor says that many men who are considered 'hard' aren't, where they are dangerous though is that they have no cares about who they hurt or even sometimes if they get hurt themselves, they have no moral conscience about being violent. I think technically they are psychopaths.

 

[Tez3]

Until eight years ago and I started training with Mick I had no idea anything like this went on at all lol! Now I've seen a fair bit of it!! he's doing the doors in Newcastle at the moment as well as the day job ( to earn much needed money as you know) and the things he's telling us are hair curling! I suspect, well I know tbh, he does actually enjoy fighting. Btw he's a biker through and through lol!

 

[Nolerama]

I think there's a difference between street fights, and a street fighter. Yes, there are a ton of people out there who end their weekend knocking the mess out of each other in bar parking lots. And yes, lots of them don't know how to fight properly, but fight often.

However, I'm a big believer in experience. And I will never second-guess a guy trying to fight me on the street, nor scoff at his perceived abilities as a fighter. Hopefully, I'll let my training dictate the situation.

Two things:

-If I end up in a bar room/ bar parking lot altercation, chances are that I'm inebriated in some shape or form. That has to be taken into consideration. "Liquid Courage" is ridiculously unpredictable. In an altered state, I may not be as effective as a fighter.

-Think about all those kids who go through life in the MAs, joined the wrestling team, or even played football. They're athletes. That has to be a factor, even when their striking guard is down, he might simply be thinking about soaking in your strike, and attempt a take down.

Those are only two possibilities within a myriad of possibilities that can come up in a street fight. Here's more: what if it escalates with another person jumping in? Add a knife or a gun and you have yourself a mess of trouble.

Situational awareness is key. Assumptions can get you killed.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Streetfighter-One who has little to no professional training or skills but is clever enough to develop a fighting system or primitive instinctual methods.

The Gypsy fighters are tough!! I think that can fit more into Puglism?

My narrow scope is the average poverty brawler.

 

[Tez3]

Streetfighter-One who has little to no professional training or skills but is clever enough to develop a fighting system or primitive instinctual methods.

The Gypsy fighters are tough!! I think that can fit more into Puglism?

My narrow scope is the average poverty brawler.

I think you're right there, there's no kicking, guards up and they'll stop for breaks! There's a gypsy lad who does MMA here, very tough fighter. His supporters are a handful though.

 

[Nolerama]

By gypsy, are you referring to the gypsies from that movie Snatch?

What's the deal with them, anyway?

Pardon my American ignorance.

 

[Sukerkin]

The origin and decline of Gypsies is meat for a whole other thread, Nolerama. At one time, they were a vibrant, seperate, culture, with their own rules and sense of honour.

Nowadays, the likes of a tiny island like Britain does not have room for their vagabondage, as all land is 'owned' by someone and noone wants one of their encampments on the doorstep (with sadly valid reason).

 

[Tez3]

By gypsy, are you referring to the gypsies from that movie Snatch?

What's the deal with them, anyway?

Pardon my American ignorance.

No, the ones I'm talking about are Romanies, proper Gypsies not Irish travellers though the travellers do fight the same way. They shouldn't be confused with the New Age travellers however who don't fight at all,they're hippies lol!

 

[Tez3]

Totally not a lot to do with this thread but just a quick note, Dave Legeno who's in Snatch is a well known MMA fighter here.

 

[still learning]

Hello, There are many levels of martial artist......so is the mythology of a streetfighter.

Those that actual gets into lots of fights when growing up? ....will become skill fighters of the street styles.

Nothing trains you better than a real, full on fights......each one will teach you something new.

Marital arts today do not teach you the real street fighting skills and the mental part too! the adrenline...the fear... and anything goes mindsets!

Want to learn how to fight back? and live? ....learn how fights actually happens......want to learn a traditional martial arts....take a karate class...

Ever see two martial artist fight? .....looks more like a street fight!

Aloha,

PS: don't take my word for it? ...watch actual fights!

 

[exile]

Marital arts today do not teach you the real street fighting skills and the mental part too! the adrenline...the fear... and anything goes mindsets!

This is, as it happens, factually incorrect. Martial arts do not themselves teach anything—people teach, or experiences teach. MAs themselves are resource sets, which can be taught well or badly, narrowly or comprehensively. And there are plenty of MAists who teach hard-realistic combat applications for those resource sets. Peyton Quinn, Iain Abernethy, Geoff Thomspon & Peter Consterdine & the whole British Combat Association crew... exactly what do you think those BCA guys teach in their dojos, SL? Consterdine and Thompson each have close to a decade of experience, with several hundred fights under their respective belts, as bouncers/doorment/security for some of the toughest clubs in the UK, in Coventry, Manchester and other places where the fights are all too real. Peyton Quinn, another karateka and professional bouncer, has devoted whole books to specific ways to handle the adrenaline dump, and he's far from the only one who trains students along these line.

I'd suggest that before you continue to make the kinds of underinformed statements that seem to recur in your posts on this kind of topic, you do two things: first, acquaint yourself with the range of MA training resources out there which focus specifically on application of MAs to the nasty realities of street attacks and, second, learn the uses of the word often. MA schools often do not train people for unsought street combat. Instructors often overlook the practical application of MA forms to CQ combat for self-defense. Students often are given the false impression that their advanced (or even intermediate) belts automatically confer immunity to harm on them because of supposed street competence that go with these ranks. Often, but far from always. That's the key point. Grossly incorrect generalizations of the `Martial arts don't....' type do nothing but incline people to dismiss your comments out of hand, because comments like that suggest that you know little of what you're talking about.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Hello, There are many levels of martial artist......so is the mythology of a streetfighter.

Those that actual gets into lots of fights when growing up? ....will become skill fighters of the street styles.

Nothing trains you better than a real, full on fights......each one will teach you something new.

Marital arts today do not teach you the real street fighting skills and the mental part too! the adrenline...the fear... and anything goes mindsets!

Want to learn how to fight back? and live? ....learn how fights actually happens......want to learn a traditional martial arts....take a karate class...

Ever see two martial artist fight? .....looks more like a street fight!

Your post only enhances my point of starting this thread.

You believe that the average fighter on the street is better than a skilled martial artist. Granted that there are skilled streetfighters as there are unskilled martial artist but the ratio of skilled streetfighters to unskilled martial artists I think is in favor of the martial artist.

I guess my point is if the streetfighter is so great or feared than what would the point of martial art training for self-defense?

In My experience in streetfights it was these things:

1.Very fast 2.punches were thrown wild(hence how swing became slang for throwing punches) 3.Bumrushes to the floor.

On two fights I remember mostly were 1.Guy threw such a telegraph Haymaker I recall thinking geez hurry up lol 2. Guy was so fast I did not even see his punch.

On the note of seeing an actual martial artist fight. The Martial artist can actually target and know how to apply techniques were the streetfighter is more primitive and must hits are by chances.

*Note* Skilled streetfighter-Is one who has some sort of training or has been in enough fights to properly excute technique by skill rather than chance.

 

[bostonbomber]

I think the mythology has more to do with the street fight than the streetfighter. In the gym or at a competition, there are bounds on what can be done. Even when faced by a more experienced competitor we know what to expect and how far things will go. This is not true in the street fight. There are no bounds and there is a high level of uncertainty about what your attacker will do and how far they are willing to go. Most people don't like uncertainty and it is why many fear the street fight most of all.

 

[kaizasosei]

I don't know whether to be flattered or insulted as one aquantance of mine always tells me i'm a streetfighter although i've trained so much with him in the past and he knows how much time i spend thinking about, researching and training all sorts of martial arts...

When i think of streetfighter i think of fighters like Kimbo that started fighting on the street, as well as goons that simply throw fits and attack people almost without warning. I would hope my friend means the former, because i never really badly hurt him even once

one of the nastiest as well as funniest things was when he grabbed my arm one time and literaly pulled my fist into his eye. So i heard he had a black eye the next days, but honestly i simply pulled back in a certain direction and them he lashed out and wham slammed himself in the eye with my fist...i was so shocked! He totally admits that he pulled my arm himself. I remember asking him right away why he did that, and he said something like it was a mistake...no kidding

i did sortof channel the energy, but it was harder than i had even expected and i thought he would realize in time.

j

 

[BrandonLucas]

I, personally, have never given much thought to the "stigma" around "streetfighters". Of course, I live in a small town, so my exposure to them is very limited, mind you, so my opinion is based on my experience.

From what I've actually seen, streetfights and brawls are not "pretty". The fighters who are involved do not generally have much technique to speak of, and the fights can often be confusing.

I have seen some examples, thanks to the innovation of youtube, where some streetfights and brawls involve at least 1 fighter who knows what and where to hit. Those fights look somewhat more intelligent, though most of them that I've seen end up being sloppy toward the end up the fight.

All that being said, I think everyone should respect any opponent...to not do so can be disasterous. Many times, the perceived "stigma", like someone posted earlier, is due to a respect for the fighter's experience...I've often wondered what a streetbrawl would look like involving at least 1 MMAist...anyway, alot of these streetbrawlers are indeed tough. Some of them take shots to the chin that would crumple the "average" guy, even when hit at just the right spot.

But, I also think fights are situational as to how the outcome is going to be. There are a lot of "if's" involved. Alot of streetfighters make rookie mistakes due to lack of training, and vice versa many trained fighters make rookie "street" mistakes...the simplest way to put it is that the outcome of the fights are never going to be predictable...in my opinion, anyway.

 

[Tez3]

I, personally, have never given much thought to the "stigma" around "streetfighters". Of course, I live in a small town, so my exposure to them is very limited, mind you, so my opinion is based on my experience.

From what I've actually seen, streetfights and brawls are not "pretty". The fighters who are involved do not generally have much technique to speak of, and the fights can often be confusing.

I have seen some examples, thanks to the innovation of youtube, where some streetfights and brawls involve at least 1 fighter who knows what and where to hit. Those fights look somewhat more intelligent, though most of them that I've seen end up being sloppy toward the end up the fight.

All that being said, I think everyone should respect any opponent...to not do so can be disasterous. Many times, the perceived "stigma", like someone posted earlier, is due to a respect for the fighter's experience...I've often wondered what a streetbrawl would look like involving at least 1 MMAist...anyway, alot of these streetbrawlers are indeed tough. Some of them take shots to the chin that would crumple the "average" guy, even when hit at just the right spot.

But, I also think fights are situational as to how the outcome is going to be. There are a lot of "if's" involved. Alot of streetfighters make rookie mistakes due to lack of training, and vice versa many trained fighters make rookie "street" mistakes...the simplest way to put it is that the outcome of the fights are never going to be predictable...in my opinion, anyway.

Nasty!