MJW - striking with max power

TMA17

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Some good stuff in here. I have to say as someone that has always liked striking, I’m moving slightly away from it as a primary tool for self defense and thinking more about grappling.

All fights start standing and striking is a vital component. You need both. However, quickly closing the distance and clinching followed by whatever techniques you can employ from a grappling standpoint- judo throw, wrestling take down and pin or a BJJ submission hold, will save your hands and possibly avoid getting caught by a haymaker.

There are some crazy videos out there emphasisize blocking with elbows among other things. Just seems unrealistic and risky.

 

skribs

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The idea behind blocking with the elbows is you can cover more of your head or body by keeping the arms in close to you.

Let's imagine you're in a science fiction setting, and have the ability to create a force field, but you can only create a force field that is the size of your body. If you put that force field so close your nose is pressed against it, that will provide you pretty good coverage. Someone would have to flank you in order to shoot lasers at you. Now imagine you put that force field 100 feet away from you. Now any grenades that hit the force field won't be able to explode on your face, but anyone who is even a few degrees off center can take a shot. (I'm making up the rules of these force fields as I get further into the metaphor).

The same applies for blocks. Blocking away from you helps keep your distance, but blocking in close provides a greater arc of protection.
 

Martial D

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Some good stuff in here. I have to say as someone that has always liked striking, I’m moving slightly away from it as a primary tool for self defense and thinking more about grappling.

All fights start standing and striking is a vital component. You need both. However, quickly closing the distance and clinching followed by whatever techniques you can employ from a grappling standpoint- judo throw, wrestling take down and pin or a BJJ submission hold, will save your hands and possibly avoid getting caught by a haymaker.

There are some crazy videos out there emphasisize blocking with elbows among other things. Just seems unrealistic and risky.

Did he really need to oil up and do this in a towel? ROFL.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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The idea behind blocking with the elbows is you can cover more of your head or body by keeping the arms in close to you.

Let's imagine you're in a science fiction setting, and have the ability to create a force field, but you can only create a force field that is the size of your body. If you put that force field so close your nose is pressed against it, that will provide you pretty good coverage. Someone would have to flank you in order to shoot lasers at you. Now imagine you put that force field 100 feet away from you. Now any grenades that hit the force field won't be able to explode on your face, but anyone who is even a few degrees off center can take a shot. (I'm making up the rules of these force fields as I get further into the metaphor).

The same applies for blocks. Blocking away from you helps keep your distance, but blocking in close provides a greater arc of protection.
I think (@TMA17 correct me if I'm wrong), you two are talking about different things. You're referring to raising your elbow, like this https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2e2e296336b160563d007176e8d8a8c4 which is useful. TMA i think is talking about having your elbow in this position
K640_03-Palkup-Dollyo-Chigi-Turning-Elbow-Strike-e1508962931376.jpg
to strike a straight punch, with the idea being that if they clash the fist will hurt more than the elbow. I've seen it in movies, but never in a dojo, and I agree it's not a smart idea at all.
 

Bill Mattocks

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Some good stuff in here. I have to say as someone that has always liked striking, I’m moving slightly away from it as a primary tool for self defense and thinking more about grappling.

Both are applicable. Striking does not have to be done at arm's length, however. You can close distance and still be able to strike with a variety of methods.

All fights start standing and striking is a vital component. You need both. However, quickly closing the distance and clinching followed by whatever techniques you can employ from a grappling standpoint- judo throw, wrestling take down and pin or a BJJ submission hold, will save your hands and possibly avoid getting caught by a haymaker.

It's an old argument about all fights going to the ground sooner or later, versus multiple attackers and the ability to defend from the ground against more than one, etc. I'll just leave that alone, it's not worth getting into. I should know more about ground-fighting than I do, but I do not. So it is hard for me to comment with any authority on the matter. I am comfortable standing and will do my best to stay on my feet. Given that, it behooves me to concentrate on my striking with hands, elbows, knees, shoulders, hips, and whatever else I can. A punch is a block and a block is a punch from my point of view.

There are some crazy videos out there emphasisize blocking with elbows among other things. Just seems unrealistic and risky.

Fighting is risky and often involves damage to one or both parties. I don't do too much in the way of elbow blocks, but I've seen some that look very effective to me.
 
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TMA17

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Ok maybe it’s more effective than I realized. My thinking was timing it and with your arms so close to your face you are setting yourself up for a takedown and a massive onslaught of shots.

This is what I was referring to:

 

Bill Mattocks

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Ok maybe it’s more effective than I realized. My thinking was timing it and with your arms so close to your face you are setting yourself up for a takedown and a massive onslaught of shots.

This is what I was referring to:


That's pretty interesting. I don't know if I would want to take punches on my forehead. Blocking with an elbow as he is describing would certainly hurt the attacker, but I'm not sure how well I could do that intentionally. Interesting.
 

Martial D

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The forehead is actually the best place to get punched(not that getting punched anywhere is good...)

Next to the elbow, it's the strongest structure on the body. His hand is broken, you are relatively unscathed.
 
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TMA17

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I’m more in favor of maintaining distance, footwork than trying to block high speed punches via elbows. I don’t know....
 

skribs

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The forehead is actually the best place to get punched(not that getting punched anywhere is good...)

Next to the elbow, it's the strongest structure on the body. His hand is broken, you are relatively unscathed.

The bone is strong, but cant it still snap your head back? I can see whiplash or a concussion as possibilities there.

I haven't tried this but I would think that could happen.
 

Martial D

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I’m more in favor of maintaining distance, footwork than trying to block high speed punches via elbows. I don’t know....
It would hurt a lot to land a straight punch on an elbow. With that said it seems a bit awkward to hold your elbows up high like he was. Leaves you open down below for other things as well.
 

Martial D

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The bone is strong, but cant it still snap your head back? I can see whiplash or a concussion as possibilities there.

I haven't tried this but I would think that could happen.
Ya it sure can. Beats having your nose or orbital smashed AND getting your head snapped though.
 

skribs

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I think (@TMA17 correct me if I'm wrong), you two are talking about different things. You're referring to raising your elbow, like this https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2e2e296336b160563d007176e8d8a8c4 which is useful. TMA i think is talking about having your elbow in this position
K640_03-Palkup-Dollyo-Chigi-Turning-Elbow-Strike-e1508962931376.jpg
to strike a straight punch, with the idea being that if they clash the fist will hurt more than the elbow. I've seen it in movies, but never in a dojo, and I agree it's not a smart idea at all.

It all depends on what you're defending. There's a hinge block in the 2nd Dan form at my school that I couldn't really figure out what it was for. One day I was watching a Wing Chun sticky hands video, and the majority of the blocks were hinge blocks against a backfist strike. But you have to fight an opponent using that technique to apply it, because the block itself wouldn't work on most other techniques (or would be far less effective).

Where I see that being effective is against anything that dips "below the surface" of your neck, like an uppercut coming at you like a breaching shark or an inward knife-hand strike coming at you like an iceberg. Your arm is going to get in the way, and then your arm is hopefully inside their guard, and chambered to counter.

Now I'm not saying it's ideal, but I can see it being at least useful in those situations.
 

drop bear

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Ok maybe it’s more effective than I realized. My thinking was timing it and with your arms so close to your face you are setting yourself up for a takedown and a massive onslaught of shots.

This is what I was referring to:


There is almost no specific bare knuckle concept there. Believe it or not chin down is a glove boxing thing as well. (MJW punching correctly is a glove boxing thing too. Gloves and wraps don't prevent broken hands anywhere near as much as the theoretical bare knuckle guys would have you believe.)

You are probably not going to deliberately catch a punch with an elbow like that.

It does help with hooks a bit though as it closes the gap of defense at the side of the head. Although it opens the body up.

It is interesting to note punching elbows does mess up your hand. So for all the guys who think body punching is somehow safe. Consider elbows will be the primary blocking tool there.
 

drop bear

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I’m more in favor of maintaining distance, footwork than trying to block high speed punches via elbows. I don’t know....

That works better if you don't like getting punched in the face. I recommend this for self defense because it is a bit safer.

Some guys don't care. I mean you fight mark hunt he will not try to out move you.
 

CB Jones

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That works better if you don't like getting punched in the face. I recommend this for self defense because it is a bit safer.

Some guys don't care. I mean you fight mark hunt he will not try to out move you.

and blocking Mark Hunt's punch with your forehead is probably not a good strategy....:D
 

Gerry Seymour

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I’m more in favor of maintaining distance, footwork than trying to block high speed punches via elbows. I don’t know....
The idea is that you can't hit (or grapple) if you are outside his range in most cases (excepting things like you having dramatically longer reach than him). So when you enter to end things, you need protection. Close guards like that are useful for those transition periods, when he really only gets one shot to stop you before you start what you had in mind. They can also be useful if he brings a storm of pressure - you can hide behind that close guard to get inside the storm, rather than letting him drive you onto your heels.
 

Gerry Seymour

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It would hurt a lot to land a straight punch on an elbow. With that said it seems a bit awkward to hold your elbows up high like he was. Leaves you open down below for other things as well.
Agreed. If I saw that, I'd probably target the floating ribs quickly. For a strong kicker, it would be a gift.
 

Gerry Seymour

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The bone is strong, but cant it still snap your head back? I can see whiplash or a concussion as possibilities there.

I haven't tried this but I would think that could happen.
If you lower the head into it, the idea is (haven't tried it, so can't say if this is how it works out) they punch somewhat in line with your structure, so the head doesn't snap. Of course, that's exactly the position an uppercut works best on.
 

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