The Mechanics Of Powering Your Martial Arts Movement

[Alan0354]

This is the ancient Chinese weapon used in the ground fight (or under water). You put your middle finger through the ring. It can be a very tight grip. Not sure it's legal or not. You can always say you will use it for "spear fishing".

View attachment 27670

I am pretty sure it's illegal.

I think tactical pen is the closest, it might not be too sharp, but poking into the body got to hurt.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I am pretty sure it's illegal.

I think tactical pen is the closest, it might not be too sharp, but poking into the body got to hurt.

The Pan Guan Bi is similar to the one I posted. The only difference is the missing hook.

 

[dvcochran]

This is the ancient Chinese weapon used in the ground fight (or under water). You put your middle finger through the ring. It can be a very tight grip. Not sure it's legal or not. You can always say you will use it for "spear fishing".

View attachment 27670

Haha!!! I would like to see how that goes down at the hospital or at the library.
"Purely for research" might work I suppose.
Interesting little gadget.

 

[Alan0354]

The Pan Guan Bi is similar to the one I posted. The only difference is the missing hook.

View attachment 27671

View attachment 27672

This is getting very similar to the tactical pen, just missing the loop for the middle finger.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

This is getting very similar to the tactical pen, just missing the loop for the middle finger.

The loop in the middle is important. Without it, you can't hold it tight.

This is also a good SD weapon.

 

[Flying Crane]

This is the ancient Chinese weapon used in the ground fight (or under water). You put your middle finger through the ring. It can be a very tight grip. Not sure it's legal or not. You can always say you will use it for "spear fishing".

View attachment 27670

My bet would be illegal, at least in California.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Back to the subject. The infinite symbol can be a good power generation method. When you swing your arm in one direction (release), toward the end, your releasing can be a compressing. You then swing your arm to the opposite direction (release).

Application: You hook punch at your opponent's head. Your opponent dodges under your hook. You change your hook into a horizontal hammer fist and still punch his head.

 

[Oily Dragon]

That video shows why its important to hold people down on the ground. Knocking them down is no guarantee that they will stay there.

IHOP. Hmm.

That video has nothing on a Denny's video.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Weren’t you talking about the guard and mount in post# 49?

Yes, but as a reply to some other off topic post. You are of course, welcome to post as you please, I am no authority on anything at all.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Very difficult to generate striking power when your hips and/or shoulders are against a surface and thus, neutralized. Elbows may work in some cases, headbutts can work, and biting is an option. Eye pokes and ripping the cheeks or ears don't need much power so should work well.

Other than the above options, this is the answer.

If I'm on my back then I would want to generate power, but not for striking. I could still generate power from my legs, arms, and waist. I would use leg power, twisting power, collapsing power and sinking power and arm power generation.

The power flow also wouldn't necessarily travel in an orderly fashion like striking. I may start from my legs or it may start from my hands.

 

[J. Pickard]

Just semantics here, but Power, by definition, is work over time. Power has nothing to do with hitting harder, what you are referring to is kinetic energy. To maximize damage you need to increase pressure (penetration) while decreasing impulse (pushing) when it comes to striking, both of which are a product of Impact force, which is applied kinetic energy. A higher kinetic energy will increase impact force, spread that impact over a smaller area and you will decrease impulse while increasing pressure which maximizes damage. Now when grappling you want higher power because we are not creating an impact force, we are applying the force over a change in time which is work (W=F/Δt). Applying that work over a given time is power (P=dW/dt). Everything people are saying to get more power is actually increasing KE (which is good, that's what you want when striking) not increasing Power. Just semantics, but felt like throwing it out there.

 

[dvcochran]

Just semantics here, but Power, by definition, is work over time. Power has nothing to do with hitting harder, what you are referring to is kinetic energy. To maximize damage you need to increase pressure (penetration) while decreasing impulse (pushing) when it comes to striking, both of which are a product of Impact force, which is applied kinetic energy. A higher kinetic energy will increase impact force, spread that impact over a smaller area and you will decrease impulse while increasing pressure which maximizes damage. Now when grappling you want higher power because we are not creating an impact force, we are applying the force over a change in time which is work (W=F/Δt). Applying that work over a given time is power (P=dW/dt). Everything people are saying to get more power is actually increasing KE (which is good, that's what you want when striking) not increasing Power. Just semantics, but felt like throwing it out there.

Interesting assessment. I am not fully clear on your explanation of pushing as a bad thing. In physics, it would be the beginning and process of a punch. I love physics (real world math application). It does get complicated to apply at times and there is a plethora of equations, sometimes multiple for the same thing.

Power - P=work x time
Force - mass x acceleration
Kinetic energy - E = 12 x mass x velocity²
Work - Force × displacement × cosθ
Impulse - Force x time = mass x Δ velocity (the impulse causes AND is equal to the change in motion),

There are dozens more but these are relevant to your post. I think it is very, very important to cancel out semantics when applying physics to the explanation. Honestly, I never gave it much thought but it does seem harder to define the work being performed during a choke or a static block. More potential energy rather than kinetic energy maybe? Power and work equations do not quite explain what is going on.

I am a bit fixated on your assessment of decreasing push to increase penetration. I cannot picture how this works. To me you cannot have one without the other. This is definitely where semantics can confuse things to me.
Your latter assessment of reducing area to increase pressure is correct in any scenario I can think of (all other things being equal).

This is fun.

 

[mograph]

Just semantics here, but Power, by definition, is work over time.

"Power" has multiple definitions, and context affects choice of definition. In this context, the effect of "power" is the same as that of "kinetic energy."

 

[Flying Crane]

I believe it is a mistake to try and take discussions such as these into the realm of physics. We can discuss terms like power even if we aren’t meeting the definition of the word as found in a physics textbook. I think we all understand what we are really talking about.

Sometimes folks get very terminology-heavy and borrow from physics and biology in their discussions. On some simple level that can be useful depending on context, at other times it borders on comical, but let’s understand from the get-go that we will not define the equation to describe the perfect punch. It just ain’t happening.

 

[J. Pickard]

I am a bit fixated on your assessment of decreasing push to increase penetration. I cannot picture how this works. To me you cannot have one without the other. This is definitely where semantics can confuse things to me.
Your latter assessment of reducing area to increase pressure is correct in any scenario I can think of (all other things being equal).

Sorry, bad phrasing and messy wording on my part. I should specify, I really mean applying impulse to the target. I simplified it as pushing as in if I hit something and cause it to move then it's more of a push which will deal less damage than a penetrating strike which happens from pressure. Penetration vs. a push when striking basically. If I hit a target and it moves in the same direction as I am hitting it, effectively increasing the distance and lowering the impact force as impact is measured by dividing KE over distance. This is an increase in impulse (change in momentum) that negatively affects the impact force by increasing the distance. Conversely if I can keep a high impact force spread over a small area I will increase the pressure and penetrate deeper causing more damage. I didn't mean to say that I "push" less with my strike but rather I am trying to not use my strike as a push. Sloppy wording on my part. It's all semantics, but I believe that [trying] to understand the the biomechanics/physics behind martial techniques can give a better understanding of how to improve them but in order to do that you need to first know what it is you are trying to change which is why I pointed out the semantics of "power" actually referring to KE. It's pedantic, I know, but hey some people enjoy the pedantry.

I agree with you that there is not one formula to consider but many and it is very messy. Too many variables. Kinematic studies usually just look at after the movements already started to keep things simpler and it's still complicated but fun to consider.

 

[Oily Dragon]

"Power" has multiple definitions, and context affects choice of definition. In this context, the effect of "power" is the same as that of "kinetic energy."

Agreed, and all of those definitions can be seen in this one video.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

This is getting very similar to the tactical pen, just missing the loop for the middle finger.

Agreed, and all of those definitions can be seen in this one video.

Lol!

 

[isshinryuronin]

I believe it is a mistake to try and take discussions such as these into the realm of physics. We can discuss terms like power even if we aren’t meeting the definition of the word as found in a physics textbook. I think we all understand what we are really talking about.

Sometimes folks get very terminology-heavy and borrow from physics and biology in their discussions. On some simple level that can be useful depending on context, at other times it borders on comical, but let’s understand from the get-go that we will not define the equation to describe the perfect punch. It just ain’t happening.

A few days ago, I posted this: "Simple is good....Calculus is bad." Admittedly, I may be biased, as when I see a page of funny looking symbols mixed with numbers I immediately skip that page.

You can understand the math better than Einstein, but I'll bet he couldn't punch worth sh*t. It may be intellectually fun (for some) to figure out the physics, but there are other factors involved that can only be experienced. How can you put in numbers the way a punch feels as it effortlessly explodes, almost of its own accord?

While good karate follows the rules of physics, the rules of physics do not fully explain karate. There is more to it than quantitative principles: spiritual bearing, breathing, reading the opponent, muscle memory, and so on. When teaching, I try not to break the information into pixels, but use a more analog (holistic) approach of the way a move feels. Hundreds of reps later, the student gets it.

To use an art analogy, Western paintings may use many dozens of precise dabs or strokes of the brush to paint a bird. Japaneses Sumi-e painting uses just four or six strokes to evoke the same image. Elegance is in simplicity. The Japanese call this concept shibumi. I love that word.

 

[AIKIKENJITSU]

What he says in video is true and taught in Jow Ga as well. The major difference for me is how I teach it. I tend to use the term Waist and not Torso. Torso to me is too general. Upper torso. = anything above stomach. Lower torso = below chest and above the hips. I like to use the term "waist" because most people understand that location. If I ask someone to wrap a belt around their waist, that person will place the belt in the area that I need the student to focus on.

I train in a circular system and the concept of using the waist (torso) to generate power is key. Jow Ga Kung Fu has these long circular punches that take some effort to get going. Here you can see a demonstration of one of these punches and how the power is generated. Typically the power starts at the ground and picks up other areas of generation. Ideally, a punch should use a "Power Multiplier" concept. The more you can add the better. How many you add it up to you and the position you are in when throwing the strike.

From what I've seen. Learning to power a punch is one of the most difficult lessons to learn. The difficulty often revolves in the connection of the power, most people bleed power and as a result their strike has breaks in power connections. In general theory, the more power connections you can make the more powerful your strike will be. The reality is that the number of possible power connections available will vary some techniques have a lot and some have only a couple. If you try to add more than what exists then you'll not only break the technique, but you will also break the power.

It depends on what style you take. I have practiced American Kenpo (my version) for over fifty years. I am still fast, strong and very limber. Kenpo techniques is a fine balance between circular movements and straight line styles.
Sifu
Puyallup, WA

 

[JowGaWolf]

I believe it is a mistake to try and take discussions such as these into the realm of physics. We can discuss terms like power even if we aren’t meeting the definition of the word as found in a physics textbook. I think we all understand what we are really talking about.

Sometimes folks get very terminology-heavy and borrow from physics and biology in their discussions. On some simple level that can be useful depending on context, at other times it borders on comical, but let’s understand from the get-go that we will not define the equation to describe the perfect punch. It just ain’t happening.

I agree with your comments about Physics. There's a difference between measuring power and knowing how to generate power and knowing how to connect the points of power generation.