Is there anyway to generate power using only limb-based attacks(arm punches) without being very fit?

[JowGaWolf]

At least in scenario depicted the bottom guy has his attacker in his guard which is a major improvement over being mounted. Unfortunately he wastes that advantage by not using his legs, hips, and core to control his opponent. He's trying operate strictly with his arms which is a losing proposition.

You should give test it out to see if you can use the BJJ techniques when pinned to a couch. I've never seen any self-defense lesson in regard to that situation beyond watching for tell-tale signs that a guy is getting too close, don't stay out the couch get up and create distance.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

You should give test it out to see if you can use the BJJ techniques when pinned to a couch. I've never seen any self-defense lesson in regard to that situation beyond watching for tell-tale signs that a guy is getting too close, don't stay out the couch get up and create distance.

Guarantee you I can use BJJ while pinned on a couch. I've done a fair amount of environmental training over the years.

The only issue with the coach is that it adds a variety of complicating variables which will differ from couch to couch. How squishy is it? Squishiness can work for or against you. How wide is it? Are there arm rests? Is it heavy and stable or will it potentially flip over or break during a struggle?

If your grappling fundamentals are solid and you have some practice dealing with different environmental obstacles, then escaping a pin on a couch is no harder than escaping a pin in a different setting.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Guarantee you I can use BJJ while pinned on a couch. I've done a fair amount of environmental training over the years.

The only issue with the coach is that it adds a variety of complicating variables which will differ from couch to couch. How squishy is it? Squishiness can work for or against you. How wide is it? Are there arm rests? Is it heavy and stable or will it potentially flip over or break during a struggle?

If your grappling fundamentals are solid and you have some practice dealing with different environmental obstacles, then escaping a pin on a couch is no harder than escaping a pin in a different setting.

I would like to see that solution because I definitely don't have one. I've thought of a lot of self-defense scenarios and none of them involve a couch. I don't know how many attacks happen on the couch but it would be interesting to see the options. I know for kung fu the answer will probably be related to doing something to the face (generic when all else fails answer. face and genitals).

Would stay on the couch? try to go to the floor? or something else? what would be your game plan from a BJJ perspective?

 

[RTKDCMB]

Is there a way to generate power just from purely limb based attacks

Foot stomp.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I would like to see that solution because I definitely don't have one. I've thought of a lot of self-defense scenarios and none of them involve a couch. I don't know how many attacks happen on the couch but it would be interesting to see the options. I know for kung fu the answer will probably be related to doing something to the face (generic when all else fails answer. face and genitals).

Would stay on the couch? try to go to the floor? or something else? what would be your game plan from a BJJ perspective?

On the couch, here are the considerations,m as they apply to ground work (Tony and others can probably go deeper on this).

First, the surface is probably soft, perhaps very. This means bridging movements will be less effective, and shrimping will probably be useless (see next point for another thought). The attacker will also probably have a weaker base, so a bit easier to draw their weight off if they don't keep a foot in he floor.

The couch probably has a back, so more constricted on that side. Maybe no way to slip a leg around on that side to closed guard. But something there for leverage for a shrimping-like movement.

The couch is fairly narrow, so they may leave a foot on floor. Tha would mean less weight to keep you down, and that leg isn't as useful for constraining your movement. It may also be a useful target for breaking their structure, since removing that leg as a brace makes them easy to shift in that direction.

There's stuff to hold onto. If you shift them, they have much they can grab for support. If what they grab is attached, then they are harder to move. If it's not, attempt will make it harder for them to resist. Of course, if it's attached, you can use it, too.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I would like to see that solution because I definitely don't have one. I've thought of a lot of self-defense scenarios and none of them involve a couch. I don't know how many attacks happen on the couch but it would be interesting to see the options. I know for kung fu the answer will probably be related to doing something to the face (generic when all else fails answer. face and genitals).

Would stay on the couch? try to go to the floor? or something else? what would be your game plan from a BJJ perspective?

My couch at home is too rickety to demonstrate anything on. I think there's a couch at the gym I might be able to use for videoing a demonstration. If I don't get something put together by next week, shoot me a reminder.

I can't really just type up a description of what exact techniques I would use because there are too many variables. The specifics of the couch affect the options for both the attacker and defender. Also there no real standard for how to attack someone on a couch, so each attacker will probably do something a little different.

The general game plan will be to get out from the bottom, preferably to my feet. Failing that, reaching some sort of guard position will do a lot to improve my chances. The specifics of how I do that will depend on the attacker and the coach, but will fundamentally be about controlling distance and leverage.

The more I think about it, the more it seems like a good topic for advanced grappling study. If that couch is still at the gym I may want to devote one of my classes this coming week to the topic. That way we'll have more bodies to experiment with. Definitely send me a reminder if I haven't posted an update by this time next week.

 

[oftheherd1]

What if an elephant chases me down a jungle path armed with an AK-47?

Bill, as you approach your test for 5th fantastic degree, you will be taught the secret technique called "Pull mouse from inside gi, throw over shoulder." It never fails to work.

I was curious though, how many jungle paths have you encountered that are armed with an AK-47?

 

[Jenna]

We already know the cliché that boxers utilize the legs to generate most of their effectiveness in punching, martial artists use CoD PITT and mix in different moves in a single devastating combo to KO someone within seconds, big muscular thugs with no formal training using their brute strength and size to generate devastating power when they KO a nerd in one hit, etc.

But I am wondering. In a case of what-if monkey suppose you aren't a strongman who can pull trucks for miles with a rope and you are in a situation preventing utilizing leg movements and other bodily movement preventing power generation as well as are unable to utilize the whole arsenal of moves such as knees while simultaneously headbutting with a quick follow up by bearhugging ala CoD PITT, etc.

Is there a way to generate power just from purely limb based attacks such as throwing the generic "soccer kicks" without pivoting your standing leg and other subtleties while not being in tip top fighting shape? Fantasy scenario example you're a 90 pound nerd who gets tackled and pinned on a couch by a 200 pounder fat guy. He is so on top you the only blow you can throw are sloppy uppercuts on his body and because you're bot lying on the couch you cant utilize your shoulder and legs to generate full power. The space on the couch is so cramped that you can't use your legs for triangle chokes or bit the fatty on the neck, etc use CoD PITT principles.

Is there anything you can do to generate enough force to hurt this guy with arm-based uppercuts so he'll get off you?

Funny scenario but that couch incident should sum up what I mean by my question. I ask because RBSD discussion and dojo forums brings up so many bizarre scenarios that people are trying to find ways to survive. For example I seen one discussion where people were criticizing boxing because it relies on the legs so much for powers that should you get chained to a chair punches will be useless. Literally one guy said "that's why us boxers train with weights, pushups. and other hard strength exercises so that we still hit hard even if we can only rely on our arms."

I was like "wut the hell...." but it made me curious if "limb-based" attacks such as simply bringing up knees without using gravitational force and utilizing your rear leg to spring upward for more power or throwing hooks without twisting your hips along with pivoting legs while lacking the muscles of Conan the Barbarian can still bring enough force to hurt your enemy enough so that you can escape.

Is there anyway to generate power with just arms alone in punching, a single leg alone in kicking, headbutting without grabbing the other guy's rear neck towards you, etc in otherwords just using a single limb or body part to attack in singularity without being physically strong?

Or is this one of those "Ragnarok" you're fucked up for sure scenarios? The argument about boxing being useless if you're legs are chained to a chair is just one and there are so many bizarre scenarios from five guys pinning you to a wall similar to the American History X rape scene to trying to fight with both arms and one leg in a casket.

I do not see that anyone have mentioned speed? Power in strike is only rate at which weapon, fist, foot, elbow is accelerated to target. Maybe increase in flexibility that lead to gain in strike speed (eg. speedballs are not just for timing and coordination also good at increasing strike rate) maybe this help to increase power in absence of brute strength??

 

[drop bear]

My couch at home is too rickety to demonstrate anything on. I think there's a couch at the gym I might be able to use for videoing a demonstration. If I don't get something put together by next week, shoot me a reminder.

I can't really just type up a description of what exact techniques I would use because there are too many variables. The specifics of the couch affect the options for both the attacker and defender. Also there no real standard for how to attack someone on a couch, so each attacker will probably do something a little different.

The general game plan will be to get out from the bottom, preferably to my feet. Failing that, reaching some sort of guard position will do a lot to improve my chances. The specifics of how I do that will depend on the attacker and the coach, but will fundamentally be about controlling distance and leverage.

The more I think about it, the more it seems like a good topic for advanced grappling study. If that couch is still at the gym I may want to devote one of my classes this coming week to the topic. That way we'll have more bodies to experiment with. Definitely send me a reminder if I haven't posted an update by this time next week.

would have thought it would be a whole bunch of cage stuff modified.

 

[drop bear]

I do not see that anyone have mentioned speed? Power in strike is only rate at which weapon, fist, foot, elbow is accelerated to target. Maybe increase in flexibility that lead to gain in strike speed (eg. speedballs are not just for timing and coordination also good at increasing strike rate) maybe this help to increase power in absence of brute strength??

Yeah sort of tentatively. If you are locked under someone there are strikes you can do But you really have to understand the mechanics of your situation. If you just wail away down there then you really need to hope the other guys top game is pretty poor.

 

[JowGaWolf]

My couch at home is too rickety to demonstrate anything on. I think there's a couch at the gym I might be able to use for videoing a demonstration. If I don't get something put together by next week, shoot me a reminder.

I can't really just type up a description of what exact techniques I would use because there are too many variables. The specifics of the couch affect the options for both the attacker and defender. Also there no real standard for how to attack someone on a couch, so each attacker will probably do something a little different.

The general game plan will be to get out from the bottom, preferably to my feet. Failing that, reaching some sort of guard position will do a lot to improve my chances. The specifics of how I do that will depend on the attacker and the coach, but will fundamentally be about controlling distance and leverage.

The more I think about it, the more it seems like a good topic for advanced grappling study. If that couch is still at the gym I may want to devote one of my classes this coming week to the topic. That way we'll have more bodies to experiment with. Definitely send me a reminder if I haven't posted an update by this time next week.

Thanks. I would really be interested in it. Especially if it's something a beginner can do or if this is something that would take some intermediate or advanced skills to do. I'm going to check to see if there is a Chin na solution to this. If there's a striking answer to this scenario then it's probably within Chin Na somewhere.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

would have thought it would be a whole bunch of cage stuff modified.

Cage concepts can definitely be relevant, but there are some significant differences as well. For example you have both a smaller vertical surface to work against and a smaller horizontal surface to move on before you hit the drop off to the floor. That means conventional methods for standing up against the cage wall won't work the same. Also the squishiness factor will affect movement quite a bit.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Maybe increase in flexibility that lead to gain in strike speed (eg. speedballs are not just for timing and coordination also good at increasing strike rate) maybe this help to increase power in absence of brute strength??

Good question. Connecting legs, waist, arms is always mandatory for us even when punching fast. It's been so long since I've actually tried to punch fast with just my arms.

 

[JowGaWolf]

OP thanks for the Couch scenario.

 

[oftheherd1]

...

IMO, the answer is no - I'd be interested if anyone else here has an approach that can. If you remove all the things that generate power, you don't have power. Now, later in your post, you referred more to being able to hurt someone. That you can do without needing much power. A flat-hand slap to the ear hurts. A poke in the eye hurts. An open-hand slap to the ribs (especially if they're shirtless) hurts. Pressure points hurt. Finger locks (and subsequent breaks) hurt. So, we replace punching technique (and/or strength) with targeting and using different tactics.

...

To me this really is the answer to the question (as silly as the question seems at first). But I don't think we should totally discount such a scenario. Some may remember a while back a woman asked about being pushed down and laid on by someone bigger and heavier. Others have taken the question more seriously and suggested solutions. Mostly based on grappling.

For instance, is the opponent just going to wrap you up and stay there? Is there another motive? In that case they are most likely going to have to free up one limb at least, probably a hand/arm. This gives a victim more opportunities as well. While avoiding attacks, now eyes, throat, armpit, ribs, ears, fingers, wrists, ankles, lips, whatever comes in reach, are now possible attack points.

I would also caution against struggling when you are completely pinned. It will tire you out quicker, weaken you, and as you overheat, make you more likely to pass out. Let your opponent make moves and create opportunities for you.

 

[wingchun100]

We already know the cliché that boxers utilize the legs to generate most of their effectiveness in punching, martial artists use CoD PITT and mix in different moves in a single devastating combo to KO someone within seconds, big muscular thugs with no formal training using their brute strength and size to generate devastating power when they KO a nerd in one hit, etc.

But I am wondering. In a case of what-if monkey suppose you aren't a strongman who can pull trucks for miles with a rope and you are in a situation preventing utilizing leg movements and other bodily movement preventing power generation as well as are unable to utilize the whole arsenal of moves such as knees while simultaneously headbutting with a quick follow up by bearhugging ala CoD PITT, etc.

Is there a way to generate power just from purely limb based attacks such as throwing the generic "soccer kicks" without pivoting your standing leg and other subtleties while not being in tip top fighting shape? Fantasy scenario example you're a 90 pound nerd who gets tackled and pinned on a couch by a 200 pounder fat guy. He is so on top you the only blow you can throw are sloppy uppercuts on his body and because you're bot lying on the couch you cant utilize your shoulder and legs to generate full power. The space on the couch is so cramped that you can't use your legs for triangle chokes or bit the fatty on the neck, etc use CoD PITT principles.

Is there anything you can do to generate enough force to hurt this guy with arm-based uppercuts so he'll get off you?

Funny scenario but that couch incident should sum up what I mean by my question. I ask because RBSD discussion and dojo forums brings up so many bizarre scenarios that people are trying to find ways to survive. For example I seen one discussion where people were criticizing boxing because it relies on the legs so much for powers that should you get chained to a chair punches will be useless. Literally one guy said "that's why us boxers train with weights, pushups. and other hard strength exercises so that we still hit hard even if we can only rely on our arms."

I was like "wut the hell...." but it made me curious if "limb-based" attacks such as simply bringing up knees without using gravitational force and utilizing your rear leg to spring upward for more power or throwing hooks without twisting your hips along with pivoting legs while lacking the muscles of Conan the Barbarian can still bring enough force to hurt your enemy enough so that you can escape.

Is there anyway to generate power with just arms alone in punching, a single leg alone in kicking, headbutting without grabbing the other guy's rear neck towards you, etc in otherwords just using a single limb or body part to attack in singularity without being physically strong?

Or is this one of those "Ragnarok" you're fucked up for sure scenarios? The argument about boxing being useless if you're legs are chained to a chair is just one and there are so many bizarre scenarios from five guys pinning you to a wall similar to the American History X rape scene to trying to fight with both arms and one leg in a casket.

It's not cliche...it's truth. That's like saying, "We have all heard the cliche that the sky is blue." As for your question, nothing can generate as much power as when you get your proper body mechanics behind it.

 

[frank raud]

Have played around with grappling in a car. Makes for some challenging scenarios, especially when you include a gun or a knife in a grappling situation. The additional challenge in a car is if you slide off the seat, you can become literally trapped between the seat and the dash. Not a good place to be! Southnarc describes it on this video as a cross between rock climbing and jiu jitsu.

 

[yak sao]

The more I think about it, the more it seems like a good topic for advanced grappling study. If that couch is still at the gym I may want to devote one of my classes this coming week to the topic. .

here I am trying to encourage people to get up off the couch and train and you're bringing one to class.
I've heard of arm chair martial artists but this is ridiculous

 

[Tony Dismukes]

As promised, I ran the experiments and posted the results in a new thread.

 

[wingchun100]

As promised, I ran the experiments and posted the results in a new thread.

Coming from you, it has got to be a good read. I will check it out soon.