The change of fraternity in Taekwondo

IcemanSK

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This is something I've noticed that is happening that I wanted to share. I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing completely. But a shift is happening.

Since the 1940s Korean Arts have had the Kwan system. Loyalty to one's instructor and to one's Kwan was very important. With the advent of Kukkiwon in the early 70s, the intent was to do away with power of the Kwan system and to view them as merely "fraternal organizations." While most, if not all, Kwan still issue rank they are now very much in the background of the Art. There is now something that has taken the place of Kwan connection in Taekwondo.

Dating back to at least the late 1950s, there have been colleges in Korea that offered degrees in MA. Yudo College, now Yong In University, was among the first to do so. While these schools had such programs, they weren't seen as taking the place of Kwan connections of students. I'm not sure when the change began (my guess is sometime in the 1980s) the MA university program one attended (or one's instructor attended) started to replace the Kwan connection for Taekwondo students. The new crop of masters from Korea (the last few decades) are less connected to a Kwan identity than they to the college of their master.

The pioneers of Taekwondo are much older or have died. It's harder to maintain connections to the Kwan (and to the keepers of the Kwan traditions). With the university TKD programs, a new fraternity has arisen that acts in a similar manner to the way the Kwan acted for the master/student. These university programs incorporate other Arts (Hapkido, Judo, and others) into their curriculum, and allow students to be more well rounded in their training. They can then pass that on to their students.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you see the TKD university programs as an addition to the Kwan system? As a replacement to the Kwan system? Is it good, bad, neutral? Do you think that I'm off base with this & that the Kwan system is still strong? In what ways have you seen the university system act as a fraternity in TKD?
 

Earl Weiss

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Not where I think you are going with this but I always felt that the Kwan system was purposely eliminated along with deleting the importance of certain people from the development of TKD so as to avoid a "Mistake" of the past where a single individual, as opposed to the masses had a lot of influence over the TKD masses. Allowing any individual a lot of influence reduced the ability of the governrment to control and use TKD as it saw fit if the individual did not share the governments views in the direction / use of TKD.
 

Dirty Dog

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I think that many of those pioneers, through their positions at the Kukkiwon, have intentionally pushed the Kwan affiliations into the background. As far as the KKW is concerned, the kwans no longer exist. If you want to maintain a kwan connection, it is very much done outside the umbrella of the borg... errr.... kukkiwon.
I do not see the university programs as replacing them, personally, since they're very much a part of the Kukkiwon Kollective.
 

Jaeimseu

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I think that many of those pioneers, through their positions at the Kukkiwon, have intentionally pushed the Kwan affiliations into the background. As far as the KKW is concerned, the kwans no longer exist. If you want to maintain a kwan connection, it is very much done outside the umbrella of the borg... errr.... kukkiwon.
I do not see the university programs as replacing them, personally, since they're very much a part of the Kukkiwon Kollective.
I think the universities might be replacing the kwans from the standpoint of branding. Pretty much every dojang in Korea prominently displays the university program the instructor came from these days. I can't remember the last time I saw a kwan affiliation advertised. Most dojang will be labelled as 경희대, 용인대, or 한국체대.


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IcemanSK

IcemanSK

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I think the universities might be replacing the kwans from the standpoint of branding. Pretty much every dojang in Korea prominently displays the university program the instructor came from these days. I can't remember the last time I saw a kwan affiliation advertised. Most dojang will be labelled as 경희대, 용인대, or 한국체대.


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For those who don't read Korean, the first 2 say "Kyung Hee University" & "Yong In University." The 3rd says "Korea National Sport University." So, in Korea, you're seeing university affiliation listed, instead of kwan affiliation, Jaeimseu. From what you see would you say university connection is filling the role othat kwan once did, or is it something different than that?
 

TrueJim

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...would you say university connection is filling the role othat kwan once did...

My sense is that this is a complicated question, since the kwan filled many different roles. On the one hand, the kwan was the "fraternity" that you associated with, it defined who your "taekwondo friends and family" were, and it was the "brand" that you associated with. My sense is that yes - the universities now fill those roles. But then of course the kwan also filled other roles as well (and still do outside Korea), for example by defining the style, issuing certificates, etc.

But definitely yah...based on my experience, there's a lot of identification with "university now, none with kwan. (I base this on the fact that we have a lot of interns coming through our school from Korea. I've got a couple of interns staying at my home in a week or so, so that they can participate in
) The interns of course never ever mention "kwan" -- but are very proud of their university.
 

andyjeffries

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What are your thoughts on this? Do you see the TKD university programs as an addition to the Kwan system? As a replacement to the Kwan system? Is it good, bad, neutral? Do you think that I'm off base with this & that the Kwan system is still strong? In what ways have you seen the university system act as a fraternity in TKD?

While I believe Jaeimseu that in Korea the university programs are more important, I would say internationally that kwans are definitely more important. Throughout the 80s/90s Kukkiwon was most important, but with recent changes (Special Dan Tests, Poom/Dan Examiner Courses, etc) a lot of people are looking back to the kwans to keep the traditional ways alive.

In my dojang Kukkiwon certification at black belt level is mandatory. If students wish, they can also have Changmookwan certification. At the 1st/2nd Dan level they often don't bother (some do, but in general). At 3rd Dan plus, keeping in touch with these traditional routes becomes more important. I know I value my Changmookwan membership and Dan higher than my Kukkiwon Dan.

I feel this is to be expected though. I value that my instructor promotes me above everything (my Taekwondo father for want of a better word), my kwan is the next small group (my brothers/sisters) and the Kukkiwon is big group (my whole extended family).

This doesn't mean I don't support the Kukkiwon - I absolutely do! I'm a twice member of the World Leaders Forum, 3rd Class Master Instructor and 3rd Class Poom/Dan Examiner - and am going back to Korea in July to sit my 2nd Class Master Instructor course. If they keep doing Poom/Dan Examiner courses, I'll keep doing those too. I defend the Kukkiwon against people that seem to want it destroyed. We have both KKW and CMK flags up in the dojang.

Most importantly though when I go back to Korea I will be again going to the President of my Kwan's office to meet with him. While I've met past and current presidents of the Kukkiwon, I haven't had the sort of intimate situation with them that I've had my kwanjang. So my relationship with my Kwan means a lot to me...
 

Kinghercules

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What are your thoughts on this? Do you see the TKD university programs as an addition to the Kwan system? As a replacement to the Kwan system? Is it good, bad, neutral? Do you think that I'm off base with this & that the Kwan system is still strong? In what ways have you seen the university system act as a fraternity in TKD?

Nice subject.
Ive seen that recently on ppls websites. Stating that they have a MA degree from a university over in Korea.

IDK.....for me I like the kwan systems. As you may have noticed from some of my other post Im anti-Kukkiwon. LOL! For me the kwans had their own ways of approach fighting but nowa days the majority of TKD schools are members of the KKW and they teach the sport style fighting. As mentioned above the kwans are not recognized by the KKW any more. So their individuality is gone. As Dirt Dog said they are absorbed by the Borg.
 

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