Thai Style Checking vs Jin Ji Du Li

[Martial D]

The only Dutch kickboxer I know is totally broken, inside and out. A lot of it came from competing, the rest came later.

Ya it's a pretty brutal style. But mt in general is not for the faint of heart. Getting kicked in the legs sucks, and getting kneed and elbowed in the plumb is also not a party.

I enjoyed it though. It was the striking style primary taught at my old club.

 

[Oily Dragon]

NO such thing, "Muay Thai's clinch work".

My clinch work is not that bad. That's because I'm more worried about being thrown, than being kicked. Can you dig that?

Just realized I wrote this poorly. I definitely wasn't saying Muay Thai has no clinch. I guess I was trying to say is what people think of as "Thai clinch" in MMA etc, or what muay khao specialists do, are not exclusive to Muay Thai at all, they're common across the entire region. Nothing special, really.

 

[jayoliver00]

NO such thing, "Muay Thai's clinch work".

My clinch work is not that bad. That's because I'm more worried about being thrown, than being kicked. Can you dig that?

don't know here you train Muay Thai then.

 

[Oily Dragon]

don't know here you train Muay Thai then.

I don't know what this means.

 

[jayoliver00]

I don't know what this means.

you think there's "NO such thing, "Muay Thai's clinch work"?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

"Muay Thai's clinch work".

I don't like this kind of clinch. You give your opponent 2 free arms.

First your bending elbow give your opponent a free control point. If your opponent locks your head with both of your arms inside, you will be in trouble. You can't see when your opponent attacks your legs.

 

[Oily Dragon]

you think there's "NO such thing, "Muay Thai's clinch work"?

Because it's not limited to Thailand any more than the Lunar New Year is Chinese. I clarified in the next post, maybe you missed it. I could have worded myself better for sure.

The same clinch exists in a lot of Asian styles from India, China, Vietnam, Malaysia, the Phillipines. It's a lot older than Muay Thai, the sport.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I don't like this kind of clinch. You give your opponent 2 free arms. If your opponent locks your head with both of your arms inside, you will be in trouble.

View attachment 28176

I'm not sure what you mean by that. The inside control is much more dominant than the outside position, especially since the forearms on the opponent's collar help control the range and keep him from getting in position to get a good lock on your head or body.

Here's a good example of how dominant that position (referred to as the "plum" in Muay Thai) can be. Rich Franklin was at the top of his game, extremely strong, and technical in both striking and grappling when this fight occurred. But he had no answer for Anderson Silva's clinch. (The fight starts about 2:55 into the video, the clinch work starts about 4:20 if you don't have time for the whole thing.)

 

[Oily Dragon]

I don't like this kind of clinch. You give your opponent 2 free arms. If your opponent locks your head with both of your arms inside, you will be in trouble. First your bending elbow give your opponent a free control point.

View attachment 28176

Part of why Muay Thai is "8 limbed" is what is allowed in competition. Two hands, two legs, two elbows, two feet. Knees make a huge difference in a clinch compared to other arts like judo, wrestling, or boxing. One good knee will put a person out. That position is the perfect setup for it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I'm not sure what you mean by that. The inside control is much more dominant than the outside position, especially since the forearms on the opponent's collar help control the range and keep him from getting in position to get a good lock on your head or body.

Here is an example.

First your bending elbow give your opponent a free control point. When your opponent locks your forearm against his chest, your arm has no control over him.

If your opponent locks your head with both of your arms inside, you can't see when your opponent attacks your legs.

 

[jayoliver00]

Because it's not limited to Thailand any more than the Lunar New Year is Chinese. I clarified in the next post, maybe you missed it. I could have worded myself better for sure.

The same clinch exists in a lot of Asian styles from India, China, Vietnam, Malaysia, the Phillipines. It's a lot older than Muay Thai, the sport.

It's common practice to attribute certain techniques to a specific style that has mostly excelled & dominated using such techs. You've never seen this before in MA?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Here's a good example of how dominant that position (referred to as the "plum" in Muay Thai) can be.

In this clip, when his opponent obtains clinch and knees him, he has many chances to catch his opponent's kneeing leg. He didn't even try it. If he can catch his opponent kneeing leg, hook his opponent's rooting leg, his opponent would be down. Apparently, this strategy is not part of his plan.

How hard is it to catch a kneeing leg? Your opponent pretty much just gives it to you.

 

[jayoliver00]

I don't like this kind of clinch. You give your opponent 2 free arms.

First your bending elbow give your opponent a free control point. If your opponent locks your head with both of your arms inside, you will be in trouble. You can't see when your opponent attacks your legs.

View attachment 28176

The moment you reach up to try to do that, you're eating repeated skip knees to the face while your head's being yanked downward to multiply the force.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The moment you reach up to try to do that, you're eating repeated skip knees to the face while your head's being yanked downward to multiply the force.

Is it better to eat one knee, catch his leg, take him down than to eat his knees repeated?

 

[jayoliver00]

Here is an example.

First your bending elbow give your opponent a free control point. When your opponent locks your forearm against his chest, your arm has no control over him.

If your opponent locks your head with both of your arms inside, you can't see when your opponent attacks your legs.

That's just an example of a guy showing a technique on how to escape a poorly held MT clinch. The MT full plum is not a perfect technique that's inescapable; just like anything else. I know what usually beats it = MMA using wrestling or BJJ.

But a Nak Muay is not just going to get this clinch and then wait for the escape; it's immediate knees to the body & face + other techs if it were a real fight.

 

[Oily Dragon]

It's common practice to attribute certain techniques to a specific style that has mostly excelled & dominated using such techs. You've never seen this before in MA?

Excelled and dominated? It's just one country's popular sport style, but Thailand didn't invent clinching. Muay Thai isn't special.

How familiar are you with Vietnamese arts, or Chinese ones? Plenty of clinching there too, and it's not "Thai".

This is kind of like how I view food. Sure, pad hai lum is unique and delicious, but Thailand didn't invent the mixing of rice noodles, eggs, and peanuts. You only call it "Thai" because it's a traditional recipe you know and love. But there are so many other names for the same thing.

 

[jayoliver00]

Is it better to eat one knee, catch his leg, take him down than to eat his knees repeated?

Sure it's possible, and a valid tech....but not that easy. Based on sparring this often and having fought, most people would try to escape or block, rather than eat a knee to the face. Kind of like saying, I'll eat a full powered right cross to the face, then catch his fist; ok not exactly b/c the fist is much faster. But you're still seeing stars on both accounts; while trying to immediately catch the retracting limb.

 

[jayoliver00]

Excelled and dominated? It's just one country's popular sport style, but Thailand didn't invent clinching. Muay Thai isn't special.

How familiar are you with Vietnamese arts, or Chinese ones? Plenty of clinching there too, and it's not "Thai".

This is kind of like how I view food. Sure, pad hai lum is unique and delicious, but Thailand didn't invent the mixing of rice noodles, eggs, and peanuts. You only call it "Thai" because it's a traditional recipe you know and love. But there are so many other names for the same thing.

So you've never seen this practice of labeling a technique to a specific style in the martial arts before.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

But a Nak Muay is not just going to get this clinch and then wait for the escape; it's immediate knees to the body & face + other techs if it were a real fight.

How difficult is it for either opponent to catch the other person's kneeing leg in this clip? But if his plan doesn't include that strategy, when the opportunity arrives, he may miss it.

Most of those knee striking aim toward the chest.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Sure it's possible, and a valid tech....but not that easy. Based on sparring this often and having fought, most people would try to escape or block, rather than eat a knee to the face. Kind of like saying, I'll eat a full powered right cross to the face, then catch his fist; ok not exactly b/c the fist is much faster. But you're still seeing stars on both accounts; while trying to immediately catch the retracting limb.

What's the difference between to

- block a punch that coming toward your face, and
- knee strike that coming toward your face?

In both cases, you need skill to achieve that.

In the following clip, both opponents have chance to use left hand to catch the other's right kneeing leg. The knee striking is toward the chest, not toward the head.

If they are pure strikers (without take down intention), they may not be able to recognize that opportunity.