Texas schools revive paddling

[Blade96]

Blade, that might be an example of where CP would be inappropriate.

Here's an example where I think it was the right punishment. I swatted my four year old son a little while ago. We have a gas range at home and he's very interested in fire right now. He's been told time and time again that fire is dangerous and that he's not allowed to touch the range at all until he is older and can understand the usages of fire better. I caught him on a chair turning one of the burners on while I was letting the dog out the backyard. My son got a hard swat on the bottom, a verbal reprimand, and he was sent to timeout for 2 minutes.

Appropriate correction? I think so. He is 4. CP is very much a valuable tool at this age.

I was wondering, Couldn't you just disconnect the burners/gas range when you're not using it/you're not around/etc so that he can't turn it on? That way cp wouldn't even have to be used at all. Could be done until he's old enough to understand.

No you can't reason very well with a 4 year old. When my cousin was 4 i tried to teach him how to play with my cat (who was just a few months old at the time, now she's going to be eight in september) but he started being rough with the kitten. I just said that if he kept that up he wouldnt be permitted to play with her. he never stopped, so I followed through on it. No cp and he got the message.

Just seems like to protect them until they are able to understand, like putting a railing around the stove (there's another idea about the burners) to keep them away til they can understand. cp doesnt really DO anything. In my opinion, it doesnt really teach.

 

[dancingalone]

I was wondering, Couldn't you just disconnect the burners/gas range when you're not using it/you're not around/etc so that he can't turn it on? That way cp wouldn't even have to be used at all. Could be done until he's old enough to understand.

Just seems like to protect them until they are able to understand, like putting a railing around the stove (there's another idea about the burners) to keep them away til they can understand. cp doesnt really DO anything. In my opinion.

The point is to make sure he knows the rules for his own safety and for his proper integration into his family and his school/daycare. I can't possibly protect him from every danger lurking out there. I might be able to wall off the range but what do I do about him teasing the family dog and pulling her tail? It's unreasonable to try to work with everything else in the environment when the solution lies with the child.

HE needs to learn the rules and for now because Daddy said so suffices when it is not possible to give him a longer explanation.

 

[Blade96]

The point is to make sure he knows the rules for his own safety and for his proper integration into his family and his school/daycare. I can't possibly protect him from every danger lurking out there. I might be able to wall off the range but what do I do about him teasing the family dog and pulling her tail? It's unreasonable to try to work with everything else in the environment when the solution lies with the child.

HE needs to learn the rules and for now because Daddy said so suffices when it is not possible to give him a longer explanation.

well pets and small children....my opinions on that is for another topic. But basically I didnt get my first pet - my cat Fluffy - until I was almost 9 and so pretty grown up.

Then again, what do ya do if you have your beloved family pet who you wouldn't give up for all the cheesesteaks in Philly - and then you have a child, like my bro did with his cat Zoey. He loves Holly and Zoey is his other special girl. he'll never give her up. he'll just have to teach Holly - my niece - how to interact with her and how to treat her. And maybe keep them separated when he is not around. because small children can provoke pets and lead to very dangerous things.

My thoughts are to keep them seperate when you are not there and when the pet and child are there you have to STAY there in order to make sure the child - and dog too -are both learning right methods of appropriate interaction.

But yeah - because Daddy said so - will be good about the fire issue til he is older.

Some pets just can't be around kids period. My cat Fluffy was just such a cat. He hated strangers and kids so would attack anyone who was a kid or wasnt his own family. So when kids were around we were there to make sure they never got close to each other at all. Sometimes Fluffy ha to be put in the room when kids creating pandemonium were running around our house.

But never would Ihave given him up. he was my best friend and we were together for 15 years.

 

[Sukerkin]

On the 'Fire issue', I recall that I found out the hard way with regard to open fires. My mother had warned me, explained to me, pulled me away from the fire, put the guard around it ... but willful and stubborn me would have none of it. She was distracted in conversation with the person whose house we were in and I ninja'd to the fire, successfully moved the guard (which was bigger than me!) but got my toes caught in the hearth rug and into the coals I went!

Sensei Pain is the best teacher at the end of the day and despite a few tender days with my hands I successfully learned that mother did know what she was talking about when it came to fire :lol:.

 

[Blade96]

On the 'Fire issue', I recall that I found out the hard way with regard to open fires. My mother had warned me, explained to me, pulled me away from the fire, put the guard around it ... but willful and stubborn me would have none of it. She was distracted in conversation with the person whose house we were in and I ninja'd to the fire, successfully moved the guard (which was bigger than me!) but got my toes caught in the hearth rug and into the coals I went!

Sensei Pain is the best teacher at the end of the day and despite a few tender days with my hands I successfully learned that mother did know what she was talking about when it came to fire :lol:.

See lol, you didnt need CP

not when you have Mr. Life Experience. =]

 

[chaos1551]

The only time I use CP is when my 3-year-old kid bites one of her sisters. I give her a little slap on the mouth.

Does that teach her when someone hurts another, they will get hurt back? Does it teach her that adults are bad people because they will hit you? Does it instill a convoluted form of justice into her?

My wife and I both agree on this point. Neither of us hit any of our kids for any other reason. Our #3 (different kid) was a BAAAAAD biter, and smacking her mouth did nothing (we nicknamed her "demon child"). She finally got the hint and quit biting after my wife bit her back one day (nothing else worked). Neither of us was willing to wait that one out until she got old enough to understand. How many times would you get bitten while you wait? Oh, yeah.. she'd draw blood.

Biting is a CP-worthy offense with my kids.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Wait, what? Want to run that one by me again?

Some quotes:

Blindsage:

Cannot and will never endorse corporal punishment for children. If a teacher or school administrator ever lays a hand on one of my children they'll be extremely lucky if I don't return the favor.

Grydth:

If its violent tradition you all want, fine. I am restoring the practice of caning by gentlemen. Here's how it works: You strike my child with an object and I apply my walking stick to your head and knees.... and continue until I am satisfied I have your respect.

..touch my kids and I will cane the living snot out of you.

So the reason that we don't spank (violence) children is because is doesn't work, and sets a bad example to children of how to solve problems by using violence.

But these people would use violence to solve their problem. Or more precisely, to exact revenge against those who would corprally punish, not abuse, their children.

Aren't they setting the example they wanted to avoid?

Hence, contradictory.

 

[grydth]

When it comes to protecting my children, I'm not looking to be an example. I'll take any and all the condemnation anyone wants to hand out.

But if anyone hurts my children, most especially with a weapon, I will find them and deal with them. No discussion, no exceptions.

One need not like or respect me. One need not agree with me. But to avoid serious if not terminal retribution, one needs to leave my children in their current healthy and unmolested condition. Period.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

When it comes to protecting my children, I'm not looking to be an example. I'll take any and all the condemnation anyone wants to hand out.

But if anyone hurts my children, most especially with a weapon, I will find them and deal with them. No discussion, no exceptions.

One need not like or respect me. One need not agree with me. But to avoid serious if not terminal retribution, one needs to leave my children in their current healthy and unmolested condition. Period.

See what I mean.....

 

[grydth]

No, I do not see.

Were I to have any advance warning of anything threatening my children, I could and certainly would prevent it by legal means - obtaining a court injunction, exhausting the school hearing processes, mounting a media campaign, using an advocacy group, removing my child from the school, expending my possessions to pay for private or home schooling, etc.

Thankfully such actions by a school are not allowed in this state.

I am referring specifically to such situations where I might find my child sobbing, with stick or paddle marks on her, or I find she was called to an office on a pretext and instead molested or raped.

To me violence is always a last resort - but having said that, an individual imperils or injures my children at their risk.

 

[Bruno@MT]

The only time I use CP is when my 3-year-old kid bites one of her sisters. I give her a little slap on the mouth.

Does that teach her when someone hurts another, they will get hurt back? Does it teach her that adults are bad people because they will hit you? Does it instill a convoluted form of justice into her?

My wife and I both agree on this point. Neither of us hit any of our kids for any other reason. Our #3 (different kid) was a BAAAAAD biter, and smacking her mouth did nothing (we nicknamed her "demon child"). She finally got the hint and quit biting after my wife bit her back one day (nothing else worked). Neither of us was willing to wait that one out until she got old enough to understand. How many times would you get bitten while you wait? Oh, yeah.. she'd draw blood.

Biting is a CP-worthy offense with my kids.

That is kinda how I see things as well. CP is a last resort, not a first resort, and not until all other options are exhausted.

 

[Sukerkin]

I had assumed that that was what we had been addressing all along in this thread i.e. that corporal punishment has it's uses but that it is not something to turn to at every call.

I know that some have more extreme views and consider it should never be used and at that juncture my reasoning parts company from that line of thought. As a final sanction I feel it to be an essential tool.

There are those upon which it will not work, of course ... but {semi-joking} they'll usually be in prison not long after they leave school anyhow as their rejection of social rules and authority runs too deep.

 

[Archtkd]

TEMPLE, TEX. -- In an era when students talk back to teachers, skip class and wear ever-more-risque clothing to school, one central Texas city has hit upon a deceptively simple solution: Bring back the paddle.
Most school districts across the country banned paddling of students long ago. Texas sat that trend out. Nearly a quarter of the estimated 225,000 students who received corporal punishment nationwide in 2006, the latest figures available, were from the Lone Star State.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/15/AR2010041505964.html?g=0

Now I think this is a great idea. I've never had a problem with corporal punishment, but then I grew up going to private schools where more than once I was given a beating at morning assembly or my old school Sensei who regularly used the cane in class. Not to mention my parents.

I'm all for it, how about you guys?

It's about time. I'm a product of the old post-Colonial Kenyan boarding school system, where caning -- with a Ministry of Education approved bamboo cane -- was standard corporal punishment in primary, secondary and high school. For "serious" stuff like drinking, sneaking out to clubs in the middle of the night, selling moonshine or cigarettes in the house (dorm), you earned 12-of-the-best in the butt plus two weeks suspension. Often , for such crimes, many fathers would encourage the school principle to break the rules and surpass the caning limit of 12 strokes.

 

[Satt]

Look everyone...my wife has been using CP on me for years and you don't hear me complaining. In fact, I rather like it! :whip1:

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Look everyone...my wife has been using CP on me for years and you don't hear me complaining. In fact, I rather like it! :whip1:

Open palm or hairbrush? :rofl:

 

[blindsage]

It's about time. I'm a product of the old post-Colonial Kenyan boarding school system, where caning -- with a Ministry of Education approved bamboo cane -- was standard corporal punishment in primary, secondary and high school. For "serious" stuff like drinking, sneaking out to clubs in the middle of the night, selling moonshine or cigarettes in the house (dorm), you earned 12-of-the-best in the butt plus two weeks suspension. Often , for such crimes, many fathers would encourage the school principle to break the rules and surpass the caning limit of 12 strokes.

Hows that working out for Kenya?

 

[dancingalone]

C'mon, Sage. That's an undeserved shot at Arch.

 

[Bruno@MT]

I had assumed that that was what we had been addressing all along in this thread i.e. that corporal punishment has it's uses but that it is not something to turn to at every call.

The fact that I acknowledge that CP has its uses (albeit only as a last resort) does not mean that I am prepared to allow just any teacher or administrator to dole it out, or that I think their judgment regarding CP should be trusted.

As I already mentioned, I have heard too many tales from people I trust regarding CP in Catholic schools in the 60s and 70s to have any trust in the capability of institutions to deal responsibly and correctly with CP.

 

[Satt]

Open palm or hairbrush? :rofl:

Whatever she can find!!! :flame:

 

[blindsage]

C'mon, Sage. That's an undeserved shot at Arch.

How is it undeserved? The premise of the entire argument is that children and youth today are out of control in this country and that CP is useful method to address it. The question is totally valid. If CP is so useful and it was of such benefit institutionally in his being raise in Kenya, then the question stands, how has that method workied, in Kenya, for accomplishing those goals?