terrorism in norway

[Steve]

This is just awful.

As for waiting and chiming in, I don't know why anyone would bother. The political debate around this won't change anyone's mind and what angers me is that some are clearly already sifting through the events so that it can best reflect their political stance. Logic and reason be damned.

 

[Makalakumu]

Before liberally apply the terror label to everything else under the sun, let's look at another example. If people are feeling outraged by what happened in Norway, can you find some outrage for this? It would be consistent...

 

[granfire]

This is just awful.

As for waiting and chiming in, I don't know why anyone would bother. The political debate around this won't change anyone's mind and what angers me is that some are clearly already sifting through the events so that it can best reflect their political stance. Logic and reason be damned.

true. (but the same happened when Congress woman Gifford was shot, too...)

but what I noticed, and it kind of reminds me of 9-12-01 when a neighbor of mine got sick and the ambulance was in front of their hose with blinking light, the initial onset of panic...you hear of something blowing up these days and automatically look to the middle east for the culprits.

We have entrenched ourselves and let irrational thought cloud our minds, maybe even opens us up to attacks like this because you just simply overlook the potential of violence closer to home.

 

[Tez3]

This is just awful.

As for waiting and chiming in, I don't know why anyone would bother. The political debate around this won't change anyone's mind and what angers me is that some are clearly already sifting through the events so that it can best reflect their political stance. Logic and reason be damned.

That's what I was thinking, it would be appalling if anyone was to try and spin this into anyting other than what it is, a man who wanted to 'start a revolution' ( the killer's words) and was prepared to kill as many as it took, he says on his 'manifesto' that it's better to kill too many than not enough. This man has confessed to killing young people, no amount of twisting, spinning or word acrobatacis is going to make it anything other than an appalling horrific waste of young lives. As you say some are already trying to use this to reflect their political stance and I swear anyone who continues to say that the neo Nazis are socialists, I will curse them unto death for their unfeeling, self serving, twisted and misbegotten views of history. It makes me feel physically sick that people will try to skew history in order to fit their points of view.

I watched the Tour de France this afternoon, it was the final stage in Paris, it started with a minutes silence for the Norwegian victims of a cold blooded politically motivated killer, his acts have horrified people all over Europe, where we remember the Nazis and their horrors, we don't want it back. The Neo Nazi movement has been bubbling away over here for a lot longer than any Islamic threat, truth be told in many places it's never left since the war.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?97533-terrorism-in-norway/page3

Look at these photos and weep as we do for those lost lives.

 

[billc]

Tez, he may have been linked to neo-nazis, which makes him one type of socialist. Let the cursing begin, but it is the truth. I'll have more later at a more appropriate time. You might want to wait as well.

 

[Tez3]

Tez, he may have been linked to neo-nazis, which makes him one type of socialist. Let the cursing begin, but it is the truth. I'll have more later at a more appropriate time. You might want to wait as well.

No, you have nothing to say that I want to read, you distort what we in Europe who suffered under the Nazis know to be the truth, it's frankly dispicable that you would use a tragedy to peddle your lies and political twists and turns. You accuse the world's leading historian in German history of being brainwashed by socialists, you state that economics define political thought, you insist you are correct and millions of others are wrong, it disgusts me that someone could be so unfeeling, so blind and so hateful as to defame and distort the deaths of millions to suit your own agenda. I will not let you get away on here of writing lies and using the bones of my family to blame people who had nothing to do with their deaths just so you can claim Nazis are socialists. No one here or in Europe thinks they are, only you and your twisted pals.
You won't change your song, you continue to give offence by clinging to the perverse idea that the conservative Nazis are in fact socialists, it may wash among your mates but it doesn't wash on an international site I'm afraid. If you remember your history you'll remember that most of Europe was invaded by the Nazis, even parts of the UK were.

Here where I am, we feel great sadness for the Norwegian people, we have close links. Many service personnel spend time in Norway training, our local town is twinned with a Norwegian one and the King of Norway is Colonel in Chief of the Green Howards our local regiment, he comes across for regimental dinners, parades etc. To see him crying in church today as he mourned the loss of his people, mostly teenagers was one of the most hearbreaking things I've seen. don't bring these people down into the mire by giving your version of history, rememeber how much the Norwegians suffered under the Nazis in the war and now by this self confessed conservative neo Nazi who wanted to start a revoluton ( all his words btw). All the dead at the hands of the Nazis deserve better than your mischief.

 

[billc]

Tez, you began the discussion by stating your views on the topic, I didn't. You chose to start politicizing the tragedy by trying to silence people who disagree with your opinions. I am still going to wait for a more appropriate moment, and then I will weigh in.

 

[Tez3]

Tez, you began the discussion by stating your views on the topic, I didn't. You chose to start politicizing the tragedy by trying to silence people who disagree with your opinions. I am still going to wait for a more appropriate moment, and then I will weigh in.

Oh really? I haven't tried to silence anyone I'm just tired of you trampling on the bones of the dead by insisitng you are always correct in your statements. You don't know my politics, you don't know who I vote for so to accuse me of politicising this when you post up your political views on every subject under the sun has to be a joke. This killer is a self confessed conservative neo nazi who killed children at a socialist rally, how much more 'political' do you want it? Politics and political views are at the very heart of why this man killed so many people, he carries the self same views you profess to but according to you I'm the one politicalising it, don't make me laugh sunshine.

 

[billc]

Like I said, I'll discuss this later, and in detail.

 

[The Last Legionary]

Yo peeps! Not the place. If I can get that, you all can.

 

[Sukerkin]

Aye.

To reiterate what I posted a couple of pages back:

Ladies and Gentlemen, I just want to go on record as saying that it would be most courteous of those with 'hot irons' in the fire of debate over religion and politics to put them to one side for a few days, at least when it comes to discussing this act of terror.

Mark A. Beardmore
MT Mentor

 

[Cirdan]

Hello friends. I understand some of you have been concerned for me. Thanks, I am all right.

Ironically I have spent the three last days in Israel, a dangerous place some tell me, and while I have a great time in Tel Aviv it is back in good old Norway the bombing and massacre happen. I even walked by the administration buildings (yes, that place) the day before I left, marvelling at how peaceful a place it was. Got back in Oslo three hours ago, paid my respect with a minute of silence next to the sea of flowers and candles (where people are still putting down more of them).

It is no doubt that this person has changed Norway forever. But how it changes it is not up to him, that is something all of us decide by our actions in the following days and the future. A survivor from Utøya, Stine Renate Haheim, put it this way and the quote is spreading: "If one man can preach that much hate, you can only imagine how much love we as a togetherness can create"

 

[Tez3]

Aye.

To reiterate what I posted a couple of pages back:

Ladies and Gentlemen, I just want to go on record as saying that it would be most courteous of those with 'hot irons' in the fire of debate over religion and politics to put them to one side for a few days, at least when it comes to discussing this act of terror.

Mark A. Beardmore
MT Mentor

The whole point however of this act of terror is political, the man who confessed to these killings said himself that it's political, he wants a revolution so it's very hard to discuss this without bringing up the subject of politics when it's at the very heart of this act. This thread is in the Study not in the Remembrance part where perhaps a new thread should be posted, a non political one where people can post their condolances.

Cirdan, I've very glad you are okay, it did worry me. We've just been hosting some fighters from Trondheim MMA over here and we contacted them to see if anyone was involved, we haven't had an answer back yet but now that the weekend is over I expect we will.

 

[Twin Fist]

extreem anything = bad

 

[Bob Hubbard]

[h=1]Suspect Warns of More Terror Cells[/h]

• Judge rules that Anders Behring Breivik, left, the man who confessed to carrying out attacks that left 76 people dead in Norway, will be held in complete isolation for four weeks, as he warns that there are two more cells in his terror group.
  

 

[Twin Fist]

lets hope he is full of crap

 

[Cirdan]

Hello friends

I have been in the city today where many of the closed streets are opened again. Some are still blocked off because of risk of falling debris. The damage and number of broken windows are greater than I expected. Even the martial arts store across the marketplace have not escaped the shockwave completely, a coffe place I frequent closer to the bomb site looks more damaged and broken windows are still being removed in the building. Tens of thousands of people, maybe hundreds of thousands, pass by me heading to the gathering and concert outside town hall, holding flowers. The atmosphere is one of strength and hope, not fear or anger. Sometimes I have been resentful of the general public, today I am proud.

"Together we will punish this murderer. Our punishment will be more generosity, more tolerance and more democracy"
-Fabian Stang, mayor of Oslo.

 

[Carol]

Hello friends

I have been in the city today where many of the closed streets are opened again. Some are still blocked off because of risk of falling debris. The damage and number of broken windows are greater than I expected. Even the martial arts store across the marketplace have not escaped the shockwave completely, a coffe place I frequent closer to the bomb site looks more damaged and broken windows are still being removed in the building. Tens of thousands of people, maybe hundreds of thousands, pass by me heading to the gathering and concert outside town hall, holding flowers. The atmosphere is one of strength and hope, not fear or anger. Sometimes I have been resentful of the general public, today I am proud.

"Together we will punish this murderer. Our punishment will be more generosity, more tolerance and more democracy"
-Fabian Stang, mayor of Oslo.

Today we are all Norwegian. :asian:

 

[Archangel M]

http://www.policeone.com/Officer-Sa...s-The-killing-will-not-stop-until-we-stop-it/

In the aftermath of the 90-minute hail of gunfire allegedly perpetrated by Anders Behring Breivik — and potentially at least one accomplice — I’ve been thinking about how the chosen target of a remote island youth camp is eerily similar to a camp I once attended as a young person back in the early 1980s. That, in turn, got me to thinking, “Could those local cops in rural New York state — back when I attended the camp or today — respond more quickly than those Norwegian officers were able to?” I have to believe they most certainly could. According to a variety of reports, the gunman had at least one full hour “to go about his deadly work unchallenged” in part because an armed response team was some 45 minutes away by car, and in part because once that armed team did show up, they flooded the boat they’d attempted to take to end the shooting. They then had to commandeer a group of civilian craft to get to the island.

...

Sending an unarmed police officer to the scene of an active shooter would illicit the same result as sending one of the members of the Norwegian Royal family. They would both possess impressive titles, but absolutely no tangible power to stop the shooter. They would both probably make a vein but courageous attempt to save lives. After the attempt failed, both be given grand funerals.

It took 45 minutes for cops with guns to show up. In this day and age it's my opinion that these European police agencies really need to reconsider the wisdom of unarmed police officers.

 

[Cirdan]

Hello friends

I have added a small album of pictures taken in Oslo today. There are without doubt better images in the news, but you might find some of them interesting.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/album.php?albumid=197

I am leaving to visit realtives in the country tomorrow and won`t be on the net for a while. You all take care and remember hate is not the answer.
http://www.vgtv.no/#!id=42472