Terminology and language

Tryak

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In my school it depends on belt level. At the white belt level we are only expected to know the name of our form (tul), and words for instructor, bow and attention. At the black belt level they need to know how to count, and competition words like resume, being, return, etc.
 

StuartA

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We use a fair bit of terminology. I perfer the term "terminology" as some ITF based stuff isnt technically Korean.

Anyway.. we use all terminology for techniques, and most for class instruction.. though a few are said in English.

Lots of it can be found here: http://www.raynerslanetkd.com/SECTION3_Main.html

Stuart
 

MBuzzy

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We use a fair bit of terminology. I perfer the term "terminology" as some ITF based stuff isnt technically Korean.

Anyway.. we use all terminology for techniques, and most for class instruction.. though a few are said in English.

Lots of it can be found here: http://www.raynerslanetkd.com/SECTION3_Main.html

Stuart

Stuart,

Would you be willing to provide more info on the "isn't technically Korean" part? I am in Tang Soo Do, so I'm not really familiar with a lot of your terminology - much more than I thought. I've looked at other TKD curriculums and seen much of the same names and terminology that we use. Within TSD, we stay strictly within the realms of Korean and Hanja....now, obviously the Hanja and MANY of our "korean" words are really Chinese borrowed words, but I'm curious how much of your curriculum is borrowed and from where?
 

StuartA

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Stuart,

Would you be willing to provide more info on the "isn't technically Korean" part?
Sure... apparently, when Gen Choi was looking for names for the techniques he had, not everything had descriptive 'Korean' term, so he made some up and they are interspersed with "proper" Korean.

As I dont speak the Korean language, I prefer to use terminology to describe the lingo as I am not 100% sure what is and what isnt actually, technically correct, Korean.

I am in Tang Soo Do, so I'm not really familiar with a lot of your terminology - much more than I thought. I've looked at other TKD curriculums and seen much of the same names and terminology that we use. Within TSD, we stay strictly within the realms of Korean and Hanja....now, obviously the Hanja and MANY of our "korean" words are really Chinese borrowed words,
Well, from my "not so much knowledge" of such stuff, Hanja is technically Kanji (I may be wrong here) and "true" Korean is Hangul. Kanji is more widely known across asian countries such as China, Japan & korea, whereas the reverse is true for Hangul. Hence different word come from different dialects but mean the same thing. Check out WTF terminology against ITF terminology.. there are so many different things, that mean the same technique, like the word for Knife-hand I believe!


but I'm curious how much of your curriculum is borrowed and from where?
You mean the terminology? 99.9% is from General Chois Encys. And is common across the board in Ch'ang Hon/ITF style TKD.

Stuart
 

MBuzzy

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Sure... apparently, when Gen Choi was looking for names for the techniques he had, not everything had descriptive 'Korean' term, so he made some up and they are interspersed with "proper" Korean.

That is VERY interesting, I had no idea. This opens up a whole new area of research for me. I have seen the use of chirugi and other such terms, but there are many terms on your page that I've never run across in either Martial Arts or in studying the Korean Language. This will be interesting! Mind you, I haven't been very heavily involved with TKD as of yet....so there is a whole set of terms that I may not have been exposed to.

Well, from my "not so much knowledge" of such stuff, Hanja is technically Kanji (I may be wrong here) and "true" Korean is Hangul. Kanji is more widely known across asian countries such as China, Japan & korea, whereas the reverse is true for Hangul. Hence different word come from different dialects but mean the same thing. Check out WTF terminology against ITF terminology.. there are so many different things, that mean the same technique, like the word for Knife-hand I believe!

Kind of....you've got the basics. Both Korea and Japan borrow chinese words. In Japan, borrowed Chinese words, when written are called Kanji. In Korea, borred Chinese words, when written are known as Hanja or Hanmun. The native Korean writing system is known as Hangul. All of the languages in that area are Altaic dialects and tend to borrow from one another at least a bit. Chinese seems to be the most common though. In fact, in Korea most academic works are written either entirely in Hanja or partially. The average Korean student is required to learn around 1800 chinese characters before they graduate. Now the words are WRITTEN the same in Chinese, Hanja, and Kanji, but they are all pronounced differently, they do have the same basic meaning though. For those of use studying the language....this makes things VERY difficult. Especially for Tang Soo Do, as many of our martial arts related terms are borrowed from Chinese, but pronounced differently than they are in Chinese, so they are very difficult to look up.

You mean the terminology? 99.9% is from General Chois Encys. And is common across the board in Ch'ang Hon/ITF style TKD.

yes, I was wondering if they came from Chinese or Japanes. Many of the terms that I saw, SOUNDS Japanese to me...but I have an even more limited knowledge of Japanese than I do Korean, so I can't say for sure. As with TSD, what Gen Choi decided to call things is completely his perogative, just curious where they came from. In TSD, a lot of it was chinese because of Hwang Kee's earlier training.
 

jfarnsworth

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I can say that when my instructor became independent all the korean language was thrown out the window. I'd much rather speak english to students & have them know exactly when was meant. English is a universal language. So far in my 34yrs. of existance on this planet I've yet to run into anyone that I had to communicate anything in korean. So for me, I'd say forget the korean language but that's just me.
English is a little easier anyway. Although, I can say that I can butcher up the english language just as well.
lol
 

MBuzzy

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I can say that when my instructor became independent all the korean language was thrown out the window. I'd much rather speak english to students & have them know exactly when was meant. English is a universal language. So far in my 34yrs. of existance on this planet I've yet to run into anyone that I had to communicate anything in korean. So for me, I'd say forget the korean language but that's just me.
English is a little easier anyway. Although, I can say that I can butcher up the english language just as well.
lol

We had a bit of a conversation here and a few other threads, please feel free to bump those up again if you're interested!
 

Twin Fist

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no korean for me or mine.

The texans tried to use some up untill the 90's or so, but really? texan's trying to speak korean with texas accents?

it just gets ugly................
 

YoungMan

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I personally think using some Korean terminology is good. It reminds us of where the art came from.
 

SageGhost83

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Interesting thread. I personally use both interchangeably. I like the Korean because, well, it's Korean and I like the language. I still maintain the English because that is my language and it is far easier for me to understand when I use my own language. I have done the same thing while I trained in Shotokan. I read something very interesting concerning this topic in another forum (I was lurking for no good reason :D). Somebody brought up the very interesting point that every time that a style is imported to another Asian country, the locals drop the original terminology and translate everything into their native tongue because it is just a natural, common sense thing to do. The Japanese did it with Karate (from Okinawa/China) and even Kenpo/Kempo (originally Chaun-Fa). The Koreans did it when they imported Karate, especially within the forms (ex. Tekki Shodan = Chulki Chodan, Pyung Ahn = Heian) and also in the blocking (Age Uke = Eolgul Makki, etc). It is only natural to translate things into one's own native tongue, and this is what our brothers and sisters do in the far east. If we are truly following the example of our brothers and sisters in the far east, then we would translate everything into our own language so that it would make more sense to us. I like using the Korean terminology, though. It gives me an excuse to speak Korean in public :lol:. To each his own, I guess.
 

YoungMan

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I think the basic commands actually sound better when kept in Korean. As for the techniques, I don't think it really is that necessary to say them in Korean. I think very few of our American instructors use Korean for the techniques.
 

SageGhost83

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I like how Korean sounds, too. I don't favor one over the over, though. If I say it in Korean, I still translate it into English in my head. It would be weird actually yelling "bow" when you bow, but man, I wonder how the Koreans feel when they see us doing this. Yelling "kyungye" for Koreans is the equivalent of us yelling "bow" in English. Pretty strange and amusing :lol:. I like to use both languages, and have played a few pranks by switching up mid-sentence - you should see the look on everybody's face :D! I speak basic Korean too, so it is extra fun!
 

terryl965

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I like how Korean sounds, too. I don't favor one over the over, though. If I say it in Korean, I still translate it into English in my head. It would be weird actually yelling "bow" when you bow, but man, I wonder how the Koreans feel when they see us doing this. Yelling "kyungye" for Koreans is the equivalent of us yelling "bow" in English. Pretty strange and amusing :lol:. I like to use both languages, and have played a few pranks by switching up mid-sentence - you should see the look on everybody's face :D! I speak basic Korean too, so it is extra fun!

Yes it is.
 

exile

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I like how Korean sounds, too. I don't favor one over the over, though. If I say it in Korean, I still translate it into English in my head. It would be weird actually yelling "bow" when you bow, but man, I wonder how the Koreans feel when they see us doing this. Yelling "kyungye" for Koreans is the equivalent of us yelling "bow" in English. Pretty strange and amusing :lol:. I like to use both languages, and have played a few pranks by switching up mid-sentence - you should see the look on everybody's face :D! I speak basic Korean too, so it is extra fun!

This goes well beyond MAs. I find opera sounds way, way better in the Italian or the German of the libretto than it does when the libretto's in English, because, as a rule, the actual content of most operatic lyrics are pretty silly. Stuff like

Ha-HA!
Ha-HA!
The Duke he has a new love,
And she's a humdinger too!
Forsooth!
Forsooth!
They will be married soon!
Ha-HA!

etc. ad nauseum.

A lot of stuff that involves a language you're not a native speaker of seems much more impressive than when the same content is coded up in a language you know. SageGhost's comments about the translation of MA terms into the language spoken by the practitioners themselves has an interesting relation to this point. Take a look at John Titchen's article 'Tradition and Karate', in the first issue of Jissen, available (for free, as always) here.

Karate has only been the 'preserve' of the Japanese since the second decade of the 20th century&#8212;not even 100 years!. For the second half of tha tcentury it has been practiced by non-Japanese speaking individuals across the world, in fact there are more non Japanese speaking Karateka than native speaking trainees.... in how many Okinawan dojos were trainees using the local Okinawan dialect and pronunciation rather than Japanese? These trainees used the language they spoke&#8212;they didn't keep the Chinese names for kata or techniques, they changes them to their mother tongue.​

Titchen's point is just that people traditionally have used their own language for bodies of skill and knowledge that they have made their own, rather than the language of the source. And so it has always been. Like opera, though, it may gain a kind of glamour when it's rendered in a language you don't speak natively... but that's really just glitz.
 

MBuzzy

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I like how Korean sounds, too. I don't favor one over the over, though. If I say it in Korean, I still translate it into English in my head. It would be weird actually yelling "bow" when you bow, but man, I wonder how the Koreans feel when they see us doing this. Yelling "kyungye" for Koreans is the equivalent of us yelling "bow" in English. Pretty strange and amusing :lol:. I like to use both languages, and have played a few pranks by switching up mid-sentence - you should see the look on everybody's face :D! I speak basic Korean too, so it is extra fun!

I particularly like it when people's Kiahp is actually the word "KIAHP!" I have tried to explain...."you know that you are just saying "Yell!" really loud in another language? It doesn't seem to get through. I think people just like saying the word Kiahp.
 

SageGhost83

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I particularly like it when people's Kiahp is actually the word "KIAHP!" I have tried to explain...."you know that you are just saying "Yell!" really loud in another language? It doesn't seem to get through. I think people just like saying the word Kiahp.

I was waiting for someone to pick up on that one! I learned this also when I was in Shotokan. We kept yelling "Kiai" and Sensei kept looking at us like we were stupid. When we inquired as to why, he informed us that he gets tired of hearing us literally yell, "Yell!" while doing our techniques. Then he said "Yell, don't actually say "yell", stupid!". We all laughed really hard and nobody could keep a straight face for the rest of the training session, not even him :lol:! *sigh* I miss those days...
 

MBuzzy

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I was waiting for someone to pick up on that one! I learned this also when I was in Shotokan. We kept yelling "Kiai" and Sensei kept looking at us like we were stupid. When we inquired as to why, he informed us that he gets tired of hearing us literally yell, "Yell!" while doing our techniques. Then he said "Yell, don't actually say "yell", stupid!". We all laughed really hard and nobody could keep a straight face for the rest of the training session, not even him :lol:! *sigh* I miss those days...

Yeah, my Korean instructor would laugh histerically every time a new student showed up. Its good I was there to explain. LOTS of people still do it here....but no one listens to me. :)
 
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