Taekwondo Doesn't work on someone skilled

[drop bear]

Ah right, it was late and I must have missed that from your post. This makes more sense now and I get what you mean; if I'm aware that someone is about to jump on my back or I'm about to be hit with a projectile just before it happens, then dealing with it/getting out the way is much easier.



I'm not sure what that means....you're in a state of awareness where odd footstep patterns are highly noticeable to you?

Seems like quite an unreliable skill. I might be able to notice a weird kind of noise/patter of footsteps nearby but it's certainly not something I'm actively listening out for.



Okay, I get that...



....but it's not something that I think you need to consciously do.

What you're talking about is closer to intuition based on the years of experience you have, its quite subconscious and occurs naturally, that's why most people can't remember much about the start of an incident apart from this trigger which is at the moment you realise something is wrong. You don't need to really be in this higher state of awareness that you're describing - I'm sure it helps - but I think that it would definitely give people the impression that you were a bit shady and potentially invite trouble.

What jow gar is explaining there is kind of the opposite to how most people handle the issue. And that is where you are getting the conflict. You are suggesting that for a whole bunch of reasons you are not going to hear or see an attack coming. And you are correct.

I have done bodyguard work and have done cash transport. And guess what? It is the same thing. The idea is not to develop preternatural skill. It is to plan your life in a way that minimises risk. So you wouldn't take a crap load of money into that night club. Because you can't reliably stop that ambush.

Working Alone - Handling Money : OSH Answers

 

[ks - learning to fly]

No resistance = no real technique. It's that simple.
"Martial" means having to do with or suitable for war.
And "art" means skill at doing a specified thing, typically one acquired through practice. If you aren't learning something suitable for combat through repetition, you are learning how to dance and punch the air. Not apply techniques in a life or death situation. The community needs to be aware that pure taekwondo schools in our world today will not teach you the fundamental skills for self-defense and how to fight. Sure it may look good in movies, but in the ring, on the street, ect. It won't work. There may be some schools out there however, that offer taekwondo in addition to other martial arts. But a pure taekwondo school would not do that for you.

You could not be more wrong.

 

[JowGaWolf]

FWIW IMO the mount defense shown was badly flawed due to the failure to trap the leg and arm.

More than just the mount was flawed. The basic skills are missing. I've seen this school before and I would go as far as to say that none of what they do are valid self-defense or fighting techniques.

 

[Buka]

As I stated in the video, not every single taekwondo school is like mine. I would say that most of them are, and the only legitimate schools that I found either offered more than taekwondo (look up master kwon's full contact taekwondo) or were an mma school that applied taekwondo or karate in their techniques. There are many many bad schools out there and its very evident if you simply just look it up. The vast majority of taekwondo schools have very young black belts, don't spar regularly, and have a self-defense system that consists of "here I'll hold my hand out" and you imagine what the moves are. This is why I suggest a school that offers something like brazilian jiu jitsu or kick boxing since they have proven time and time again their effectiveness against other martial arts. Now, you can take things from taekwondo and use them, but to soley rely on that martial art isn't the best way to go. Its like learning to wrestle but never learning how to punch. I would say my front kicks would definitly come in handy on a street fight and that was a move I learned from taekwondo. Now, if a big guy wanted to take me down and punch my face in, I know my taekwondo would not stand a chance, which is why I believe going into gaurd and either doing an elbow escape , upa, or triangle choke would benefit my situation no body can argue that having a vast multitude of skills will make you a better fighter. People who believe they don't need to know how to grapple are mistaken because alot of street fights end up on the ground. And even when it comes to striking, you'll never see a straight karate/taekwondo punch, you'll see an overhand right coming right for your face and if you try to use things like hapkido and excpect them to let themselves be thrown you're very mistaken. They will resist and all I see in taekwondo schools and hapkido schools in the united states (and even korea, just look up some korean schools and you'll only see demonstration, no real training for resistance). is fake techniques that work on someone who doesn't know what is going on or is complying with the techniques.

Bro, where are you from and how many Tae-Kwon-Do schools have you actually trained in? Approximate if you wish.

You said - "There are many many bad schools out there and its very evident if you simply just look it up".
Where should I look this up?The same place I should look up your kata trophy that you told us to look up in your 39 minute post? Okaaay, where should I look that up?

You said - "This is why I suggest a school that offers something like brazilian jiu jitsu or kick boxing since they have proven time and time again their effectiveness against other martial arts."

Proven when and where - in your experience? Youtube perhaps? I take it you study BJJ and kickboxing now that you have seen the light, yes? How long have you been studying these fine Martial Arts. (two of my favorites, by the way) Give me months or weeks. Approximate.

You said - "Its like learning to wrestle but never learning how to punch."

Have you wrestled? Where, when? What do you actually know about the art of punching? You say you didn't learn squat in your school.....so you know about punching from....where exactly? How long have you wrestled? Where did you learn to punch?

You said - "I would say my front kicks would definitly come in handy on a street fight and that was a move I learned from taekwondo."

Why do you street fight? You don't seem like what I consider the hoodlum type from your video. It's profiling, I know, but old cops tend to do that. Have your front kicks served you well defending yourself? Do tell, please.

You said - "Now, if a big guy wanted to take me down and punch my face in, I know my taekwondo would not stand a chance, which is why I believe going into gaurd and either doing an elbow escape , upa, or triangle choke would benefit my situation

no body can argue that having a vast multitude of skills will make you a better fighter."

How many years/months....okay, weeks, have you spent working the guard, upa or triangle? Again, feel free to approximate. Which kind of guard has served you best?


You said - "And even when it comes to striking, you'll never see a straight karate/taekwondo punch, you'll see an overhand right coming right for your face and if you try to use things like hapkido and excpect them to let themselves be thrown you're very mistaken."

Hapkido? You speak on Hapkido from experience, yes? I mean, you must, right? Otherwise why would you use it to further your point. Please tell me more of your Hapkido experience.

You said - "They will resist and all I see in taekwondo schools and hapkido schools in the united states (and even korea, just look up some korean schools and you'll only see demonstration, no real training for resistance)"

What you "see" in Tae-kwon-do schools even in Korea.
You've been to Korea? Or is that an experience studied on the computer in the comfort of your.......?

Kid, you do realize this is an actual Martial Arts forum you're on, ya?

 

[Ruhaani]

Hi im new

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[Tony Dismukes]

Hi im new

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Hi, Ruhaani! Why don't you post a thread in the "Meet and Greet" section to introduce yourself and tell us your background.

 

[Ruhaani]

I think taekwondo is amazing

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[martialartstutor]

I want to go over alot of things you guys are saying and I feel like there has been a great misunderstanding in what I'm trying to say about my martial arts experience. I don't hate Taekwondo, its just not what I wanted out of it due to my experience in other things. I know you may think I'm trying to pimp my youtube channel, I'm really trying to have people understand my past and why I have changed and opened my mind. Now, I have a new video, and if you don't want to watch it, that's totally okay, but I cover everything that defends where I'm comming from and why I don't absolutely disrespect tradtional martial arts but actually can acknowledge it as part of my martial arts path.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I don't hate Taekwondo, its just not what I wanted out of it due to my experience in other things.

No problem with that. Lots of us here started off in one art and have moved on to others for one reason or another.

However, your opening statement wasn't "I hate TKD." It was "TKD doesn't work." I think a number of people have an issue with that statement and don't believe you have backed it up.

I know you may think I'm trying to pimp my youtube channel, I'm really trying to have people understand my past and why I have changed and opened my mind. Now, I have a new video,

If you're not trying to advertise your YouTube channel, how about actually just typing up an explanation of your position? Most of us can read a post a lot faster than we can watch a 17-minute video. It also makes it easier to quote and respond to specific parts of what you say when it's down in text.

but I cover everything that defends where I'm comming from

Hmm ... skimming through your video, I don't see any direct response to any of the comments in this thread. Instead, it seems that you're rambling your way through a number of unrelated tangents. Remember that this is a forum for martial arts conversation, not just an avenue for broadcasting your viewpoint into the ether.

Speaking of those tangents ...

You say that you are still teaching TKD, the same art that you stated in your original video "doesn't work." If it doesn't work, then why are you teaching it? Do you tell your students that you are teaching them things that don't work?

You say that "Traditional martial artists ... have this whole idea that the black belt is supreme ... There's this common misconception that a black belt means they are done learning." WTF! Have you actually met any real traditional martial artists? I've never encountered one who would support that misconception. In fact, the common statement is that a black belt represents the stage when you have gotten a solid enough foundation in the basics to start learning in earnest.

Seriously, it's good that you're exploring new options in the martial arts after 15 years in one dojang. This is a great forum for talking with other martial artists. We have folks here who have spent decades training in arts ranging from TKD to BJJ, Kempo to Kenjutsu, Muay Thai to Budo Taijutsu. Try sticking around and interacting with people and save the videos for when you want to demonstrate a technique that is too difficult to describe in text.

 

[martialartstutor]

I still do teach tkd, but I do let my students know that some things about it such as blocking aren't useful so I implement other styles when it comes to that (boxing slip, covering the ear, ect) And the reason I prefered to post a video is because I feel like I would have rambled just as much in a post haha but I guess that doesn't make a difference in a video. Don't get me wrong, tkd is a beautiful martial art and I like showing my students things like flying side kicks, 540s, and how to do flashy kicks for performances. But when it comes down to the self-defense aspects I prefer to go off other styles that have proved more effective in the ring senario.

 

[ShotoNoob]

I want to go over alot of things you guys are saying and I feel like there has been a great misunderstanding in what I'm trying to say about my martial arts experience. I don't hate Taekwondo, its just not what I wanted out of it due to my experience in other things. I know you may think I'm trying to pimp my youtube channel, I'm really trying to have people understand my past and why I have changed and opened my mind. Now, I have a new video, and if you don't want to watch it, that's totally okay, but I cover everything that defends where I'm comming from and why I don't absolutely disrespect tradtional martial arts but actually can acknowledge it as part of my martial arts path.

\
I'd like to get Chris Parker and this guy in a room together....

 

[Tez3]

Effectiveness in the ring is far from a guarantee that you can use the same techniques in self defence. Nor are 'blocks' for blocking. I feel you have a great deal to learn about TKD and martial arts in general but you are coming across as thinking you know more than people who have been training martial arts for decades.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I still do teach tkd, but I do let my students know that some things about it such as blocking aren't useful

If the blocks that you have learned aren't useful then the problem is with your training not the blocking techniques themselves. I personally, and others from my school, have used them for self defense and they are pretty darned useful.

covering the ear,

That will not be very effective against some attacks..

But when it comes down to the self-defense aspects I prefer to go off other styles that have proved more effective in the ring senario.

So for one thing you prefer to use something 'proved' more effective for something else?

 

[Ruhaani]

Every martial art works depends on the user if your teaching taekwondon and not teaching its blocking system then thats because you dont understand how it works im not a taekwondo student but believe its very affective.

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[JowGaWolf]

Every martial art works depends on the user if your teaching taekwondon and not teaching its blocking system then thats because you dont understand how it works im not a taekwondo student but believe its very affective.

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Not all blocks are used the same way. We use the term "block" but in reality many of them redirect. They also have to be used correctly just doing the motion of the block isn't going to work. Each block has a time and place. Most blocks are done offensively so if a person is always trying to block in response then that person will have a low success rate. If it takes me less than a second to punch my opponent's face, then my opponent has even less than that to react with the correct block.
To me the TKD blocks look similar to blocks in other fighting system. Fighting systems and they all tend to attack similar areas when thrown.
Here's are some basic blocks from TKD and I could easily show similar block used in my style and in some other styles.

 

[JowGaWolf]

In reference to the video post #68
I can tell you from experience that I had more injuries training Tai Chi than Jow Ga kung fu. Tai Chi is like yoga in the fact that the looks are deceiving until you actually try it. There are 2 types of Tai Chi. There's one that is taught as a martial art for fighting and another that is just done for exercise, and I think it's the one that is only done for exercise that you are saying that can't be used to fight.

If a person takes Tai Chi (taijiquan) as it was originally meant to be trained then that person will be able to use it to fight. Don't sleep on Tai Chi.
If a person's Tai Chi class looks like this, then you are right. That person won't be able to use it to fight

If a person's tai chi class has a lot of this in it, then he'll understand how it can be used for fighting.

I a person does free sparring as part of his training, then he'll gain a better understanding of the fighting system and how to actually use it to fight. Free sparring outside of one's system is the best training because it exposes you to attacks and tricks that a student won't get by training against someone who does the same fighting system.

 

[Ruhaani]

A block is a block use it correctly and understand its principles defending is always harder but all depends on reaction body awareness I think all blocks are amazing anf agree with above post tai chi is awesome just a matter of understanding and how you train it

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[RTKDCMB]

I want to go over alot of things you guys are saying and I feel like there has been a great misunderstanding in what I'm trying to say about my martial arts experience. I don't hate Taekwondo, its just not what I wanted out of it due to my experience in other things. I know you may think I'm trying to pimp my youtube channel, I'm really trying to have people understand my past and why I have changed and opened my mind. Now, I have a new video, and if you don't want to watch it, that's totally okay, but I cover everything that defends where I'm comming from and why I don't absolutely disrespect tradtional martial arts but actually can acknowledge it as part of my martial arts path.

One point where you think that (and I'm paraphrasing abit here) "there is this attitude in TMA where fighting is bad." I think you misunderstand what is being said there. It is not a good thing to have to defend yourself but for a self defense orientated traditional martial art the techniques and tactic are designed to be used for self defense. Self defense and fighting are two different things. Fighting is bad, self defense is good, having to defend yourself is bad.

Tai Chi is a martial art that can be used for self defense. The slow relaxed version is different from the version used for 'fighting'.

"TMA should be adapted to the times we live in" We do buddy, you should get out more.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I

I like the Fireman's carry defense.

 

[drop bear]

One point where you think that (and I'm paraphrasing abit here) "there is this attitude in TMA where fighting is bad." I think you misunderstand what is being said there. It is not a good thing to have to defend yourself but for a self defense orientated traditional martial art the techniques and tactic are designed to be used for self defense. Self defense and fighting are two different things. Fighting is bad, self defense is good, having to defend yourself is bad.

Tai Chi is a martial art that can be used for self defense. The slow relaxed version is different from the version used for 'fighting'.

"TMA should be adapted to the times we live in" We do buddy, you should get out more.

Well fighting being a secondary concern for a self defence martial art does explain why self defence martial artists don't fight very well.