Reasons for dropping out of (or taking a break from) Taekwondo (or another martial art)

[lifespantkd]

You quote Hong Hi Choi's/Oh Do Kwan tenets. Are you from Oh Do Kwan roots, or just like those tenets? I know many Oh Do Kwan members who also practice the Kukkiwon Poomsae (not poomse). Reading the I-Ching translations is interesting when comparing them to what the creators of the Poomsae wrote. Which I-Ching translations do you have?

I'm of Jidokwan heritage, actually. In fact, I just figured out where I'd seen your name before: materials I recently received from the Taekwondo Jidokwan Historical Society. It's very nice to meet you!

I read The Complete I Ching: The Definitive Translation by Taoist Master Alfred Huang. I prefer it as he is grounded in the original culture, language, and history of the book, as opposed to a western translator. But, I would love to read what the creators of the Poomsae wrote about their meanings. Can you please provide a reference? I have yet to find anything that goes into much detail. As I said, I'm still at the beginning of this journey!

Thank you,

Cynthia

 

[mastercole]

Ah! Then I will send you the Jidokwan creed, hopefully you like it

I can send you a boat load of original material on Poomsae. Do you have an e-mail address?

I'll have to check, I might have that translation. I have a whole shelf of I-Ching and Tae Te Ching translations.

When looking at I-Ching translations, note that the Taegeuk Poomsae uses the Fu Hsi trigram arrangement and not the King Wen.

I'm home with a cold, so I might have time to look through those books.

 

[lifespantkd]

Ah! Then I will send you the Jidokwan creed, hopefully you like it

I can send you a boat load of original material on Poomsae. Do you have an e-mail address?

I'll have to check, I might have that translation. I have a whole shelf of I-Ching and Tae Te Ching translations.

When looking at I-Ching translations, note that the Taegeuk Poomsae uses the Fu Hsi trigram arrangement and not the King Wen.

I'm home with a cold, so I might have time to look through those books.

Thank you so much! And, yes, I focus on the eight primary gua. Master Alfred Huang's translation of the I Ching presents much information about them within eight (e.g., Heaven-Heaven, Earth-Earth, ) of the 64 gua.

I hope you feel better soon,

Cynthia

 

[StudentCarl]

Okay, someone with a longer break to mix in with your data:
I started Taekwondo at an ATA school in late 1979 at 16, and stopped in 1981 as a red belt when I went to college elsewhere and found no school in which to continue. The tenets, discipline, and training served me well in college ROTC and the active military duty that followed. When I left the service I played many sports, got married and began a family, and built a career as a teacher. With my son increasingly independent in high school, I returned to focusing on my own growth and began to look again toward martial arts. I began in a Kukkiwon school in 2009 as a white belt, so I started 30 years after the first time...my break something like 28 years. The Taegeuks were different from the Chang Hon forms I first learned, but I was surprised how much I retained. The tenets have been with me all along. It would be accurate to say I left the art but it never left me. When I began again I felt like I was finally home. Since beginning I've broken bones and am meeting with a surgeon today to schedule meniscus surgery, but I earned my black belt last month. I'm a regular with the competition team, though right now I'm in "coach mode" because of the knee (Olympic style sparring primarily, with forms competition at times). To address your questions:
1-3 see above.
4. I've always been an athlete, so the adjustments were just the normal muscular ones. Fitness was not a concern, though training with the competition team has raised my fitness significantly. At 48 it's fun to train with so many youngsters, though I end up with issues that don't bother them.
5. My master has been very positive, challenges me, and has given me opportunities to help with coaching and assisting with instruction. The people I meet at tournaments are usually good people, and there are many who inspire me. Mixed in with the entertainment on this forum, I find useful lessons and perspectives.
6. Only the need to have patience is difficult...usually with physical issues. I'm the kid who learned Taekwondo briefly long ago and who has rediscovered a hunger for something that is a core part of my being. I'm at the dojang six days a week, training, coaching/teaching, and testing things that I read or think of. When I'm not at the dojang I'm often reading, watching fight video, or searching online for new ideas. Happily my wife is as big a gym rat as I am a martial artist, and my marriage is well-balanced. There just aren't enough hours in the day.

Carl

 

[oftheherd1]

Thanks for the great response, everyone! I appreciate all of your input very much.

oftheherd1, it's not for another test, per se, although I am working toward my 3rd dan in Taekwondo. I'm a writer, among other things, with a background in psychology, so I bring those interests into my practice of Taekwondo. I also have my share of experience with stopping (for various reasons and time periods) and resuming Taekwondo. Few of us seem to maintain a non-stop practice throughout our lives. Life is just too dynamic for that to be possible for most of us. So, I thought an article might be useful to practitioners and instructors. If anyone has any suggestions on a Taekwondo or general martial arts journal that might be interested in such an article, I'd welcome input on that, too. I've published many times in my professional field, but not yet in the martial arts--other than in my own blog (http://lifespantkd.blogspot.com/ ). Are any of you writers, too?


Thank you, again,

Cynthia

With your interest in TKD history and Korean culture, you might like to peruse the many threads in the Korean section of MT. I think you will find much of interest there. You must always take post WWII and Korean War writings with a grain of salt. You mention on your blog how much influence Confucianism has had on Korean culture, and it has since the Yi dynasty. But despite the inroads Christianity has made in Korea, animism is still very strong in practice as well as influencing the culture. The same for Buddhism, although the Confucianists tried very hard to discredit it. Confucianism is no longer strong as a religion, but indeed has had an influence on the culture.

Oh, I was curious from your blog. When did the USA invade Korea? Do you really know?

 

[lifespantkd]

With your interest in TKD history and Korean culture, you might like to peruse the many threads in the Korean section of MT. I think you will find much of interest there. You must always take post WWII and Korean War writings with a grain of salt. You mention on your blog how much influence Confucianism has had on Korean culture, and it has since the Yi dynasty. But despite the inroads Christianity has made in Korea, animism is still very strong in practice as well as influencing the culture. The same for Buddhism, although the Confucianists tried very hard to discredit it. Confucianism is no longer strong as a religion, but indeed has had an influence on the culture.

Oh, I was curious from your blog. When did the USA invade Korea? Do you really know?

Thank you for your comments, oftheherd, and for your suggestion to look at the Korean section of MT. I will do so!

I have articles on Buddhism and Taoism coming soon to my blog.

The US did not invade Korea, but it did occupied Korea in the form of a "trusteeship" from 1945 to 1948, hence its inclusion in a list of countries that had invaded or occupied Korea. Perhaps I need to improve the wording of that sentence to make it more clear. For more on that occupation, see Bonnie Oh's "Korea Under the American Military Government, 1945-1948."

I included that article in my blog given how many questions students have about the history of Taekwondo. However, I do find it difficult to write (and write succinctly) about Taekwondo/Korean history due to 1) not being a historian and 2) the great variation I find in resources. If you know of any particularly good references on this topic, I would definitely welcome your input.

Thank you again for your comments!

Cynthia

 

[chrispillertkd]

The US did not invade Korea, but it did occupied Korea in the form of a "trusteeship" from 1945 to 1948, hence its inclusion in a list of countries that had invaded or occupied Korea. Perhaps I need to improve the wording of that sentence to make it more clear. For more on that occupation, see Bonnie Oh's "Korea Under the American Military Government, 1945-1948."

Actually, the U.S. invaded Korea in 1871.

Pax,

Chris

 

[lifespantkd]

Actually, the U.S. invaded Korea in 1871.

Pax,

Chris

So it did! I just did a little more research and there it was. Thank you!

 

[mastercole]

Actually, the U.S. invaded Korea in 1871.

Pax,

Chris

Was it an invasion? If so, how far did we get? Or was it something else?

 

[oftheherd1]

Actually, the U.S. invaded Korea in 1871.

Pax,

Chris

You win the cupi doll! Did you already know that or have to google it? I didn't know it until the last time I was in Korea, and went to visit one of my wife's uncles who lived on Kang Hwa Do. At that time they had some old canon mounted in various places, and signs telling of the conflict. Queen Min (at least as I was told, not Yi Ha Ung) was given credit for ordering the missionaries killed, prompting the French campaign/invasion of Kang Hwa Do. She is remembered by the Koreans as a rather spiteful and mean ruler. The French did poorly and had to leave. Wikipedia says they left, realizing they didn't have the manpower to do more. The Koreas say they kicked them out. The Koreas as I recall, mentioned another country who came in after the French, and were also routed. I don't recall who it was. According to the signs, then the Americans came in and took the island, with no doubt who as in charge, and did in fact leave, but only when they were ready. Which may have been when they realized the Koreas were massing troops and the American contingent was small. I think that is what I remember reading. If I have made inaccurate statements, know that I was there about 1985 or 86, visiting one weekend.

Was it an invasion? If so, how far did we get? Or was it something else?

Well, as I mentioned above, it was not a full scale invasion with thousands of troops, but the French had more than the Americans. It was I thought, confined to the island of Kang Hwa Do, close to the outlet of the Han river. Wikipedia says the French also attacked adjacent parts of the mainland twice, but were routed each time. I didn't recall that from the signs on the island. There are two Wiki posts that might be of interest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_campaign_against_Korea_(1866)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Korean_expedition

 

[oftheherd1]

The US did not invade Korea, but it did occupied Korea in the form of a "trusteeship" from 1945 to 1948, hence its inclusion in a list of countries that had invaded or occupied Korea. Perhaps I need to improve the wording of that sentence to make it more clear. For more on that occupation, see Bonnie Oh's "Korea Under the American Military Government, 1945-1948."

Yes, there is a slightly different conotation to occupy versus invade. Thanks for the mention of Korea Under the American Military Government. When I have a chance I might try to find that. All I am aware of is that the US wanted to get into southern Korea to counter the Russians move into northern Korea, and did so. That also allowed them to account for and control the Japanese soldiers still there. They also at some point set up a Military Advisory Group, but it was not well staffed nor equiped (nor was the Korean military), as there was no suspicion it needed to be.

Another thing you might want to consider clarifying is you comment in the second article on your blog, where you state, "During the Silla dynasty (668 to 935), ... They also united the three Kingdoms on the Korean peninsula (Lee & Ricke 1999). It was actually more that they attacked the Paek Che, and beat them and took them over, then they and the Chinese attacked the Koguryo and defeated them. China took the majority of the Koguryo kingdom. I am told the people there still eat Korean food, and many still speak Korean. As an aside, many of the court of Paek Che fled to Japan, as I recall, to the southern part. Not something you are likely to read in Japanese history. ;-) So united? yes, but militarily, not diplomatically. But I grant you that "united" is often the way it is stated, so perhaps it is OK.

 

[chrispillertkd]

You win the cupi doll! Did you already know that or have to google it?

Already knew it. While not as widely read as I could be on the topic I find Korean history interesting.

Pax,

Chris

 

[oftheherd1]

Already knew it. While not as widely read as I could be on the topic I find Korean history interesting.

Pax,

Chris

Good for you!

I had read a fair amount of Korean history the first time I was there, and then some the next two times. But I never ran across that until I went to visit my wife's uncle on Kang Hwa Do. I guess in the last 20+ years, especially with the internet, more facts on many things are available.

 

[chrispillertkd]

And books.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Dirty Dog]

If any of you have paused your practice of Taekwondo (or another martial art) for any reason and for any length of time, I'd love your input. I'm working on an article and I want to make sure I have a good representation of common experiences. My main questions are:

1. What caused you to stop?

My ex-wife. She was always on me about how much time I spent training. I quit to make her happy. Didn't work...

2. How long was your break from practice?

Um.... 23 years. Give or take a few months.

3. What motivated your return to practice?

My wife. I remarried 7 years ago. About 2 1/2 years ago, she joined the Y. She knew I'd started training when I was 7, and she thought (rightly) that I still missed it. The Y program was cheap, and she suggested we give it a try. 2 years and 5 months later (Nov 5, 2011) I tested for my 1st Dan in this system.

4. How did you get back into practice (e.g., did you return immediately to your former school? first train on your own for a while to improve your fitness and regain some of your skills?, ???)

I went to class. I avoided mentioning my prior training. I even initially replied to "have you done this before" with "I watch a lot of MA movies."

5. What helped you successfully return to practice?

My wife. She loves it. And we got 2 of my kids involved. My wife and oldest daughter just promoted to 4th geup. My son just promoted to 5th. I hope someday to pass my 1st Dan belt to one of them.

6. What made returning to the practice of Taekwondo (or another martial art) more difficult?

My awareness, then and to this day, of how much better I was when I was in my teens and 20's, and how much better I would be NOW if I'd never stopped.

 

[lifespantkd]

Another thing you might want to consider clarifying is you comment in the second article on your blog, where you state, "During the Silla dynasty (668 to 935), ... They also united the three Kingdoms on the Korean peninsula (Lee & Ricke 1999). It was actually more that they attacked the Paek Che, and beat them and took them over, then they and the Chinese attacked the Koguryo and defeated them. China took the majority of the Koguryo kingdom. I am told the people there still eat Korean food, and many still speak Korean. As an aside, many of the court of Paek Che fled to Japan, as I recall, to the southern part. Not something you are likely to read in Japanese history. ;-) So united? yes, but militarily, not diplomatically. But I grant you that "united" is often the way it is stated, so perhaps it is OK.

Thank you so much! Would you happen to know a good reference or two that I could find related to this?

Cynthia

 

[lifespantkd]

Thank you, everyone, for your continued input on your experience with stopping and resuming Taekwondo. Looks like many of us have struggled with some real barriers to practice. I can certainly relate to many of them.

I also appreciate the conversation about history. It's a fascinating topic.

Cynthia

 

[rainesr]

1. What caused you to stop?

Found out my teacher was sleeping with student(s), one for sure, probably two. Teacher bounced between organizations to get rank. Teacher charged me more than the the agreed amount. Teacher lied to me personally three times to cover up things he was apparently ashamed of. This was my first school and I had been there a little less than two years.

The second time was because of injury and sickness.

2. How long was your break from practice?

I quit and didn't start back up for nearly two years. I had decided MA was a joke and full of con men.

My second gap was for six or so months because of Epstein-Barr Virus (Mono)

3. What motivated your return to practice?

I missed it and realized I was getting chubby.

4. How did you get back into practice (e.g., did you return immediately to your former school? first train on your own for a while to improve your fitness and regain some of your skills?, ???)

I initially went back to my first school. I realized very fast that things were even worse and started to look for a different school. I tried a couple of different arts (Kung Fu and Aikido) for nearly a year. I then called another Master in my old organization and asked if I could attend his classes. He said yes and that they were aware of the issues with my old school. He had wished I called earlier. We were discouraged from bouncing from Master to Master within our organization otherwise I would have called much sooner.

5. What helped you successfully return to practice?

I wanted to train in MA, I never really stopped wanting to train I just had to get over my bad attitude.

6. What made returning to the practice of Taekwondo (or another martial art) more difficult?

I went back with the body of a white belt, my mind was apparently not aware of my new limitations. I injured myself because I inadvertently attempted things my body could not do anymore. I pulled my groin and found out a couple weeks later I had Mono. My leg healed poorly and my second return was even more difficult.

I started in Tang Soo Do by the way. I have since moved and happily study Tibetan White Crane Kung Fu.

~Rob

 

[oftheherd1]

Thank you so much! Would you happen to know a good reference or two that I could find related to this?

Cynthia

I don't think I would remember now. Most of what I mentioned above is from reading I did while in Korea. Mostly from the first time there, but also some from the other two times. I also studied several semesters of the Korean language and culture, as well as an anthopology class and an archeology class dealing with Korea. That was interesting as we got to go to a site on the Han river, where there were surface collections of pottery, including Paek Che (considered of little value by the locals) and some very ancient (at least 3000 yo) decorated pottery. That included both combware of the raked type, and round type (thought to be from bird wings). We also got to go to a site north of Cp Casey, where there was an undated site with choppers and chopping tools. I have not tried to find out what it was dated to, but I would guess at least 30 thousand years ago, quite probably much more. Other such sites have since been found in South Korea, and the North has claimed to, and probably, have found some too.

I would guess that you might find a lot of it by google. If I have a chance, I may try that myself, just to see what is out there.

 

[lifespantkd]

Found out my teacher was sleeping with student(s), one for sure, probably two. Teacher bounced between organizations to get rank. Teacher charged me more than the the agreed amount. Teacher lied to me personally three times to cover up things he was apparently ashamed of. This was my first school and I had been there a little less than two years.

The second time was because of injury and sickness.

I quit and didn't start back up for nearly two years. I had decided MA was a joke and full of con men.

My second gap was for six or so months because of Epstein-Barr Virus (Mono)

I missed it and realized I was getting chubby.

I initially went back to my first school. I realized very fast that things were even worse and started to look for a different school. I tried a couple of different arts (Kung Fu and Aikido) for nearly a year. I then called another Master in my old organization and asked if I could attend his classes. He said yes and that they were aware of the issues with my old school. He had wished I called earlier. We were discouraged from bouncing from Master to Master within our organization otherwise I would have called much sooner.

I wanted to train in MA, I never really stopped wanting to train I just had to get over my bad attitude.

I went back with the body of a white belt, my mind was apparently not aware of my new limitations. I injured myself because I inadvertently attempted things my body could not do anymore. I pulled my groin and found out a couple weeks later I had Mono. My leg healed poorly and my second return was even more difficult.

I started in Tang Soo Do by the way. I have since moved and happily study Tibetan White Crane Kung Fu.

~Rob

Rob, what an experience. So sad about the conduct of your first teacher. How much harm people in power can do if a high level of ethics is not there to guard the use of that power. (Yet another reason to teach Taekwondo comprehenisively [i.e., the underlying philosophy as well as the physical skills].)

I know what you mean about resuming practice with "the body of a white belt." Manny said something like that earlier, too, if I remember right. I can so relate. One of the biggest hazards of resuming practice, especially among more highly ranking students who've had a substantial pause in practice with no alternate form of strenuous physical activity, is trying to do too much too soon. Our minds remember what we should do and what we used to be able to do, but our bodies sometimes need a long period of regaining performance-related fitness before they can actually do it. It can be hard to be patient during that time.

I'm glad you made it through all this and found a martial art you are happy with. That's wonderful.

Cynthia