Style bashing

[drop bear]

Usually easy to tell which is the tool.

Only if you dont look closely.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The resposes went into fanaticism though. Which is really hard to respond with logic.

I mean who do you think you are to question martial arts?

You are not enlightened in my style.

And this dislike bombing nonsense.

Unfortunately the responses does justify the concept that people are more emotionally attached to martial arts than logically deciding the best tool for the job.

Which to a certain degree is fair enough but can go too far if you are not aware of it.

The tone of the initial post probably helped that. I agree that a different response is possible, and might facilitate discussion - I just wanted to help the OP out, in case he hadn't considered how he was contributing to the mess that happened. I think most people are more open to being questioned with some respect in the question (you do this most of the time, unless you're looking to poke someone into a reaction, I think).

 

[drop bear]

The tone of the initial post probably helped that. I agree that a different response is possible, and might facilitate discussion - I just wanted to help the OP out, in case he hadn't considered how he was contributing to the mess that happened. I think most people are more open to being questioned with some respect in the question (you do this most of the time, unless you're looking to poke someone into a reaction, I think).

The issue for me is dogmatic stupidity pokes a reaction in me.

So while they think they are imparting some enlightenment on me I just think they are being an idiot.

Hey by the way did you know if my style doesn't work it is the fault of the student?

Because it is the individual not the style.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The issue for me is dogmatic stupidity pokes a reaction in me.

So while they think they are imparting some enlightenment on me I just think they are being an idiot.

Hey by the way did you know if my style doesn't work it is the fault of the student?

Because it is the individual not the style.

I've always read that the other way around (which is essentially the same thing): The only reason your style works is that student.

 

[Martial D]

The tone of the initial post probably helped that. I agree that a different response is possible, and might facilitate discussion - I just wanted to help the OP out, in case he hadn't considered how he was contributing to the mess that happened. I think most people are more open to being questioned with some respect in the question (you do this most of the time, unless you're looking to poke someone into a reaction, I think).

I realize that wearing kid gloves and tiptoing around people's feeling while delivering my message probably would have at least delayed the inevitable gush of emotional outbursts, but only delayed it. As the lions share of the responses show, this issue is not grounded in any sort of rational or logic for many people.

I realized that my very first day here. People that invest years and decades into something generally become very emotionally invested, and don't like to hear anything outside of their canon.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I realize that wearing kid gloves and tiptoing around people's feeling while delivering my message probably would have at least delayed the inevitable gush of emotional outburst, but only delayed it. As the lions share of the responses show, this issue is not grounded in any sort of rational or logic for many people.

I realized that my very first day here. People that invest years and decades into something generally become very emotionally invested, and don't like to hear anything outside of their canon.

This is what I was talking about. Being respectful isn't the same thing as "wearing kid gloves and tiptoing around". And being direct isn't the same thing as being harsh, which isn't the same thing as being inconsiderate, which isn't the same thing as being rude.

I tell people things they don't want to hear as a part of my profession. They rarely argue with me about it.

 

[drop bear]

This is what I was talking about. Being respectful isn't the same thing as "wearing kid gloves and tiptoing around". And being direct isn't the same thing as being harsh, which isn't the same thing as being inconsiderate, which isn't the same thing as being rude.

I tell people things they don't want to hear as a part of my profession. They rarely argue with me about it.

Have you set up an environment where arguing about it is discouraged?

I mean I do workplace training. And that is all about people telling me things I don't want to hear. I don't argue because I am not allowed to.

 

[DaveB]

Ah so you're trolling. Right got it

Which when you get right down to it is the real purpose for style bashing.

Your not going to change anyone's mind with it, any instructor worth his salt should be better able to answer questions about his/her style better than a random forum post so where is the real value?

 

[drop bear]

Which when you get right down to it is the real purpose for style bashing.

Your not going to change anyone's mind with it, any instructor worth his salt should be better able to answer questions about his/her style better than a random forum post so where is the real value?

You would be surprised. The Facebook wing chun forum I am now on thanks to that video I wanted to see is all about MMA BJJ ground concepts and expanding the wing chun idea.

You keep assuming instructors are worth their salt. There is no standard for martial arts instructor.

The purpose of style bashing is to challenge accepted belief. The people who benefit from that belief would consider it rude and uncomfortable.

 

[Steve]

TRUMP: Well I do think there’s blame. Yes, I think there is blame on both sides. You look at both sides. I think there is blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it. And you don’t have doubt about it either.

 

[Martial D]

This is what I was talking about. Being respectful isn't the same thing as "wearing kid gloves and tiptoing around". And being direct isn't the same thing as being harsh, which isn't the same thing as being inconsiderate, which isn't the same thing as being rude.

I tell people things they don't want to hear as a part of my profession. They rarely argue with me about it.

Read this thread again and tell me with a straight face I am the disrespectful one. Seriously. I dare you.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Have you set up an environment where arguing about it is discouraged?

I mean I do workplace training. And that is all about people telling me things I don't want to hear. I don't argue because I am not allowed to.

That depends how you mean that. I build a relationship that leads them to listen, and present my findings with respect for them and their people. They don't always take precisely the action I advise, but they generally don't get argumentative about the findings.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Read this thread again and tell me with a straight face I am the disrespectful one. Seriously. I dare you.

Your tone in the OP is awfully harsh for a conversation opener. Your first response to the first reply is not respectful.

 

[pgsmith]

It's funny that so many of you are self identifying with this and getting offended. I didn't single out any style other than one comment on aikido not preparing you for combat, and otherwise have been very specific about who and what I am talking about(which I stand by).

Hmmmm ... I thought out a serious answer to your original post, and posted my points and beliefs based upon my experiences. You then proceeded to totally ignore it in favor of posting inflammatory garbage like an angst-filled teenager. How about answering the points presented rather than simply trolling. You'd get a lot more respectable responses that way.

 

[Martial D]

Your tone in the OP is awfully harsh for a conversation opener. Your first response to the first reply is not respectful.

If this to you seems harsh -

My point of view - it is harmful and fraudulent to instill in people a false sense of confidence based on nonfunctional BS that will and has gotten many people hurt or killed. It is my duty as a martial artist to dispel these myths wherever I find them.

We certainly come from different neighborhoods.

The only reason one might find this harsh is if they recognize themselves in the statement. Oh there I go, being harsh again.

This is something I believe in, and yes, I'll admit it, I think many 'styles' are complete fantasy bs, and furthermore, largely the very idea of crystalized style is largely bs.
People have asked for my background. It's the internet, anyone can claim anything but it's always been about combat for me. I've been obsessed with combat since I made my first set of nunchucks when I was 8. As for 'styles' I've done Wing Chun, I've boxed my whole life. I did years of Mui Thai, some BJJ, some Arnis, some fencing, some kendo, some hung gar;but so what? Style loyalty is counterproductive. I've sparred for realistically over 1000 hours with just about every type of 'style' you can name, and it's from this that I largely form my opinions about what works. When I say works I mean 'works on me' Simple, right?

I am not Bruce Lee and I get my *** handed to me all the time, but I could list off a number of 'styles' (lol) that simply when executed in no way resemble real fighting.

Now feel free to call BS on all of that. I really don't care.

 

[Steve]

Can we all agree that this:

... is not ever... Never... Never ever... Going to be effective in a fight. BUT, takes some serious athleticism and looks like it might be fun.

 

[Ironbear24]

Can we all agree that this:

... is not ever... Never... Never ever... Going to be effective in a fight. BUT, takes some serious athleticism and looks like it might be fun.

And in all honesty that dude would probably kill both of us if we tried to harm him or his family. Not because of frog form kung fu, but judging by his athleticism he very well may know tons of applicable arts.

And if he doesn't well, who gives a damn it is very impressive anyway. This is clearly more art then martial and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Steve]

And in all honesty that dude would probably kill both of us if we tried to harm him or his family. Not because of frog form kung fu, but judging by his athleticism he very well may know tons of applicable arts.

That's an incredibly tenuous leap. I could say the same thing about a b-boy.

And if he doesn't well, who gives a damn it is very impressive anyway. This is clearly more art then martial and there is nothing wrong with that.

Totally agree.

What if this guy started speaking with authority about martial arts, based on his background as a frog kung fu master, and that he's worked and "trained with" a lot of guys who have extensive experience in security and law enforcement?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The purpose of style bashing is to challenge accepted belief.

Some "accepted belief" are

If you train

- slow all your life, you can be fast in fighting.
- soft, you can be hard when needed.
- solo form only, you can be a good fighter.
- tree hugging, you can develop something.
- sitting meditation, you will get health benefit from it.
- ...

 

[Ironbear24]

Then I would call him a shithead.