stopping in chisao

[skinters]

had a discussion the other day,would like to run it by you all .

it had to do with what i feel is being to over analytical when it comes to techniques.how many of you have been doing chisao and there is a lot of stopping and analizing each movement ?.

it happens with drills aswell,i mean ok there is nothing wrong with ironing out a bad technique,and improving your movement,but take boxing for instance if you was to do the same in the middle of a sparring session people would look at you daft.

so im doing chisao roll,roll,roll,punch comes in,bongsau lap,which is stopped biu gee straight through the centre,....and ...stop ?? why have we stopped? keep going,no matter if a strike as got through,why freeze and stop?, return fire .

like i said i have never seen this with boxing sparring for example,even boxing drills there is no stopping,just continuos flowing action .

to be honest i have been guilty of it myself stopping and freezing,but it seems to be unique to chisao in particular and is just a stage we all go through.i just find it interesting why it happens,and beleive a lot of people stay at this stage way more than is needed.

 

[mook jong man]

Yeah , that sort of thing pisses me off no end . Its one thing to analyze why you keep getting hit in a particular way , but think about it AFTER YOU FINISHED TRAINING .

Peoples time is valuable in this day and age , they go to training to get a sweat up and hopefully learn to defend themselves not for a gabfest .
I know exactly the type of people you are talking about and I used to keep on hitting them so they were to busy trying to defend themselves to talk .

Maybe thats what you should do , everytime they want to freeze for a kodak moment , you just keep on rolling and hitting through so they can't start gabbing .
Its a very bad habit to get into in my opinion stopping when you make a mistake , you should take the technique through to its conclusion also stopping when you get hit is another bad one .

I'm not saying that it would happen but if you stop every time in training there is a slight chance that you might do it in a real fight as well .

 

[Yoshiyahu]

My Sifu doesn't give you a chance to stop and think about it. He says be natural. Allow your spirit to lead you. In other words in a fight you don't have time to stop. if you stop your going to get overwhelm. My Sifu will totally just keep hitting your openings if you stop...My Sihing on other hand. You try to stop with him he is going to totally use force and blast you hard. No need to stop unless you want him Pak Sau the hell out your hand punch you in the lip.

Yeah , that sort of thing pisses me off no end . Its one thing to analyze why you keep getting hit in a particular way , but think about it AFTER YOU FINISHED TRAINING .

Peoples time is valuable in this day and age , they go to training to get a sweat up and hopefully learn to defend themselves not for a gabfest .
I know exactly the type of people you are talking about and I used to keep on hitting them so they were to busy trying to defend themselves to talk .

Maybe thats what you should do , everytime they want to freeze for a kodak moment , you just keep on rolling and hitting through so they can't start gabbing .
Its a very bad habit to get into in my opinion stopping when you make a mistake , you should take the technique through to its conclusion also stopping when you get hit is another bad one .

I'm not saying that it would happen but if you stop every time in training there is a slight chance that you might do it in a real fight as well .

 

[yak sao]

I'm with you guys.

My big thing is "you fight how you train".
If you stop everytime you get hit in training then you'll stop in an actual fight.

One of my old students was a police officer of some 20 years. They are taught not to pick up their brass on the shooting range because it develops that habit. He said there are cases of finding dead police officers who have been in a shootout and they have found expended brass in their pockets.

Another anecdote he would tell is about a policeman who practiced a gun disarm thousands of times. After every repitition he would hand the gun back to his training partner. Well the day came when he had to use it on the street. He succesfully disarmed the bad guy and handed his gun back to him. True or not, the story makes its point.

In class I am constantly preaching to my students if they knock a person down don't reach down to help them up. If they develop this habit then that's exactly what they will do when under stress in a real fight.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Ha Ha Ha....You made me laugh out loud literally with the police man handing the gun back to perp....lol...ha ha

I'm with you guys.

My big thing is "you fight how you train".
If you stop everytime you get hit in training then you'll stop in an actual fight.

One of my old students was a police officer of some 20 years. They are taught not to pick up their brass on the shooting range because it develops that habit. He said there are cases of finding dead police officers who have been in a shootout and they have found expended brass in their pockets.

Another anecdote he would tell is about a policeman who practiced a gun disarm thousands of times. After every repitition he would hand the gun back to his training partner. Well the day came when he had to use it on the street. He succesfully disarmed the bad guy and handed his gun back to him. True or not, the story makes its point.

In class I am constantly preaching to my students if they knock a person down don't reach down to help them up. If they develop this habit then that's exactly what they will do when under stress in a real fight.

 

[paulus]

Maybe thats what you should do , everytime they want to freeze for a kodak moment , you just keep on rolling and hitting through so they can't start gabbing .

I like this idea! I'm going to try it out. Like you guys, I'm also well aware of the people who insist on analysing everything - in the middle of chi sau.

I think there is a time and a place for figuring out why a technique doesn't work or a better way of applying a technique. If I keep making the same mistake I don't mind the chi sau stopping whilst I'm educated about why, but it has to be a recurring problem. When rolling we make a continuous stream of 'mistakes'; if we stopped to analyse every one, we'd learn at a much slower rate.

 

[Si-Je]

I like this idea! I'm going to try it out. Like you guys, I'm also well aware of the people who insist on analysing everything - in the middle of chi sau.

I think there is a time and a place for figuring out why a technique doesn't work or a better way of applying a technique. If I keep making the same mistake I don't mind the chi sau stopping whilst I'm educated about why, but it has to be a recurring problem. When rolling we make a continuous stream of 'mistakes'; if we stopped to analyse every one, we'd learn at a much slower rate.

I think alot of people think about it too much. WC being so scientific and such, they get hung up on the theory because it IS neat. It's just that they're trying to reach a better understanding in their own way. Me being a former Techie, and one of our old students was too. We had to think and multi-task for a living on a very overly analytical level. It's hard to get out of that mindset sometimes!

With our student I used to ask him silly questions or make funny comments while he was "thinking" too hard about technqiue, right when he was about to move. This worked really well for him, got a few laughs, and he would flow and relax alot more. (and actually do the technique correctly if it was something he was having trouble with) I just had to get his mind off the technics of what he was doing.
Their just trying too hard. Don't get to mad at them, although it is frustrating. (Hubbie's a stickler for technique and stopps me constantly for every little thing! arg! But, that's usually when I'm really screwing up.)

That's why I train a little goofey, because I'm trying to trick myself out of OVER thinking this stuff and relax. You could make a game of it and get him to close his eyes. That way he can't think about what he's not looking at.
Or, when he stopps tell him a little one liner joke, or ask him how his day was, something like that, and just keep rolling. They usually start moving again, or wrist roll and poke him in the belly and tell him, "hey pay attention! I got you with the one finger dim mak death touch!" Or if he stops to gab about the technique, stop too and scratch your head or chin, showing him how distracting it is when he stops. If he asks you why you break contact say something like, " well you stoped, and I was pondering the nature of your analysis of this technique." Smile. And encourage him to losen up and keep moving with the chi sau and stop worrying about if his doing something "right or wrong".

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Thank you I totally agree.


My Sifu always said that after you finish sparring or doing Chi Sau you analyse your mistake. If we hard sparring do you have time to say. Hey man lets stop while I think about why you hit me in mouth and why I didn't block it???

Lol...Either learn how to analyse while still defending and attacking in other words multi task. Or do it after Chi Sau is over...


Thats what I believe....

I like this idea! I'm going to try it out. Like you guys, I'm also well aware of the people who insist on analysing everything - in the middle of chi sau.

I think there is a time and a place for figuring out why a technique doesn't work or a better way of applying a technique. If I keep making the same mistake I don't mind the chi sau stopping whilst I'm educated about why, but it has to be a recurring problem. When rolling we make a continuous stream of 'mistakes'; if we stopped to analyse every one, we'd learn at a much slower rate.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Thank you thats a great answer. Very well spoken...in a goofey sorta of way....lol....

:biggun:

I think alot of people think about it too much. WC being so scientific and such, they get hung up on the theory because it IS neat. It's just that they're trying to reach a better understanding in their own way. Me being a former Techie, and one of our old students was too. We had to think and multi-task for a living on a very overly analytical level. It's hard to get out of that mindset sometimes!

With our student I used to ask him silly questions or make funny comments while he was "thinking" too hard about technqiue, right when he was about to move. This worked really well for him, got a few laughs, and he would flow and relax alot more. (and actually do the technique correctly if it was something he was having trouble with) I just had to get his mind off the technics of what he was doing.
Their just trying too hard. Don't get to mad at them, although it is frustrating. (Hubbie's a stickler for technique and stopps me constantly for every little thing! arg! But, that's usually when I'm really screwing up.)

That's why I train a little goofey, because I'm trying to trick myself out of OVER thinking this stuff and relax. You could make a game of it and get him to close his eyes. That way he can't think about what he's not looking at.
Or, when he stopps tell him a little one liner joke, or ask him how his day was, something like that, and just keep rolling. They usually start moving again, or wrist roll and poke him in the belly and tell him, "hey pay attention! I got you with the one finger dim mak death touch!" Or if he stops to gab about the technique, stop too and scratch your head or chin, showing him how distracting it is when he stops. If he asks you why you break contact say something like, " well you stoped, and I was pondering the nature of your analysis of this technique." Smile. And encourage him to losen up and keep moving with the chi sau and stop worrying about if his doing something "right or wrong".

 

[Si-Je]

Thank you thats a great answer. Very well spoken...in a goofey sorta of way....lol....

:biggun:

Yeah, goofey helps me relax. But, sometimes I stop in chi sau just because I'll get confused or hesitate not sure what to do with the energy I just got. Don't mean to stop, just seem to get,... stuck.
Thinking too much, trying to hard.

Or, I get too excited because I "accidentally" did something cool. And I want to know what and how that happened! Guess, what? Can't do it twice, especially when you stop.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

I just love that machine gun...cool beans...

Yeah, goofey helps me relax. But, sometimes I stop in chi sau just because I'll get confused or hesitate not sure what to do with the energy I just got. Don't mean to stop, just seem to get,... stuck.
Thinking too much, trying to hard.

Or, I get too excited because I "accidentally" did something cool. And I want to know what and how that happened! Guess, what? Can't do it twice, especially when you stop.