Stepping in

Omar B

Senior Master
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
3,687
Reaction score
87
Location
Queens, NY. Fort Lauderdale, FL
So my dad and I are here relaxing enjoying a couple drinks and we got to talking about stepping in and helping out a friend (in a fight and such) and the situations when it has happened.

So I thought I would ask you guys. Do you guys use your karate just for self defense or are you ready to step up to the plate.

Now I'm not about bravado and such, except here (hey, I've got a degree in English Lit, could you be any more of a nerd?) but I've stood up and faught for my sister's honor, my friends and even had to clock my buds a few times. So let's share a few war stories.

Oh, by the way. I'm the type of guy where if you are a friend of mine and you are being obnoxious and rude in a bar and I see a situation developing I will take you out before it develops into a big thing.

Example, 2 years ago on my birthday my friend Mike was being a handful in a bar (my b-day falls in football season, sue me) and I saw that he was pissing off the locals so I clocked him and dragged him out before it escalated into a 7 on 3 situation.
 

still learning

Senior Master
Joined
Nov 8, 2004
Messages
3,749
Reaction score
48
Hello, With today laws and accidental deaths ( just by being push and falling and hit your head on the concrete?)

Awareness and Avoidness- two big keys to survival.

"The Gift of Fear" in the book it mentions 28,000 people die each year because of stupid incidents.

Stepping in? ...there will be some kind of ending results.... maybe nothing, injuries,death,and monetary and/ or Jail time to deal with.

Life is very short....keeping it healthy and enjoyable...is to be smarter and wiser.

Aloha, ....best to live and leave!
 

jarrod

Senior Master
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
2,172
Reaction score
96
Location
Denver
one of the things i like about jujitsu/grappling is that it's about control as much as pain. meaning if someone is being a jackass but doesn't deserve a five-fingered exploding heart technique, i can just kinda hold them against a wall, or give them a little trip or something. worse comes to worse i can twist their arm a little & they usually calm down.

once i found one of my friends on the ground in a headlock with a guy pulling on his head. not a big deal except my friend had had his neck broken before & was telling the guy so, but the dude wouldn't let go. so i pulled him off, we scrambled a bit & i ended up on the ground with him standing. he threw a kick at me, i tripped him & armbared him. he said, "oh, i didn't know you knew what you were doing". i let him go & he walked away.

he wasn't a bad guy, he was just a little ADHD & couldn't figure out when people were done playing. i was glad i could step in without hurting anybody.

all said though, it's best to just talk your way out of it if possible.

jf
 

seasoned

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
11,250
Reaction score
1,227
Location
Lives in Texas
all said though, it's best to just talk your way out of it if possible.jf
Indeed, this is probably the best route to take. Generally situations start out with words, and the wrong words will lead to some sort of action. If you are wrong, apologize, if they are wrong, apologize for them. From this point forward you have done all that is verbally possible, you can walk away but turning your back could be a huge mistake. Everyone wants to save face, and letting them off the hook is a big plus in avoiding confrontation. As far as sticking up for your buddy, if he is wrong, then the above still stands, but it is much more difficult if your buddy is not on board with it, or he has started something, and now needs to be bailed out of a butt whipping. The way things are handled in the beginning will determine the outcome. If, at this point imminent attack is at hand, I favor a short snapping front kick to the balls, and a hasty retreat.
 

Bruno@MT

Senior Master
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
3,399
Reaction score
74
It entirely depends on the situation. For example, are my kids with me?
I have been in a couple of situations that could have ended with physical confrontation. But I managed to prevent it by calming down my friend, telling him to shut up and taking him with me on the way out. A bruised ego is always better than a bruised head.

I view my martial arts training as something to use as a last resort if no non-violent solutions are left. I care more about getting home than about winning or looking good. Besides, if the other guy knows who you are, chances are he'll come back later with his mates and kick the crap out of you. I've known a couple of instances where this happened. Not worth it.

Stepping in can be a dangerous things to do, and whether I would do it or not would depends on the situation.

My sister (a social worker, 1.5 m, working in a problem area) tells me that she can break up or prevent a fight by simply working her way between the people who are about to fight. Because in that environment, hitting a defenseless woman is the lowest thing you can do. It shows you have no honor, and makes you look like a coward because you felt threatened by a tiny woman. Doing it will unite anyone in the room, and the offender will end up on the sidewalk, severely beaten up.
Men, otoh should never ever try to break up a fight by stepping in unless they are respected / trusted by both parties. Because otherwise you are seen as interfering with something that is none of your business, and you will be get into trouble with both of them.
 

myusername

Brown Belt
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
477
Reaction score
36
Location
UK
I echo what others have said about using verbal skills first but only if your risk assessment permits it. I personally would not "step in" unless I knew at least one of the people embroiled in the confrontation. The risk of intervening in a fight as a stranger to both parties is that by doing so you are providing the person who feels most intimidated and threatened within that confrontation a lovely loophole that can prove disastrous for you! If the person losing the battle for dominance turns his aggression towards you for interfering then he can ally himself with his would be attacker thus saving his own backside and ego at the same time! You then end up having to deal with two "new best friends" wanting to kick your ****!

I do have a certain friend that in the past has caused trouble when he has had a few drinks inside him and I have stepped in on numerous occassions to protect him (fortunately, he is a bit more mature now!) Luckily my verbal skills are quite good and I have managed to calm the situation down by agreeing with the offended party that my friend is indeed an annoying idiot and promising him that I will take my buddy out of the pub so he doesn't irritate you any more. I tend to flatter the guy by saying that my friend is just "larging it" and is all mouth and would stand no chance in a fight. My friend is sensible enough to know that if he doesn't come on board with what I am saying then I will leave him to his beating!

Obviously, all of the above is talking of "matched" fighting where two or more people are in a battle of ego's and are willing participants in the confrontation. I would like to think that I would step in if I saw somebody being attacked, mugged, raped etc etc.
 
OP
Omar B

Omar B

Senior Master
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
3,687
Reaction score
87
Location
Queens, NY. Fort Lauderdale, FL
Ah, the verbal judo. It works but I've told all my friends multiple times, "If you are being an *** I will take you out myself and apologize in the morning."
 

jarrod

Senior Master
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
2,172
Reaction score
96
Location
Denver
dude, your set is hardcore. we're more like "if you're dumb enough to start trouble with the bouncer...can i have your drink?"

jf
 

Big Don

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
10,551
Reaction score
189
Location
Sanger CA
If it is one of my friends, and he is clearly wrong, he's on his own, unless and until I see a weapon or he is ganged up on. Drinking his drink, or finishing his meal is not optional...
If it is a stranger, clearly outmatched I'll try to talk it down. A woman or a child in danger of or being assaulted, I'll finish it, and deal with what comes after.
 

bowser666

2nd Black Belt
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
751
Reaction score
26
I would also attempt to talk things out first but typically if it is a bar type environment and they want a fight, I will just leave. Getting into a ight is not worth it IMO. If there is someone else being ganged up on and things are getting out of hand. I would step in provided the odds weren't overwhelming. Heck, I might even ask a couple people around me " Anyone want to help me break this up? " Better to be smart and think it through fast , than , jump in knuckles blazing and start swinging at everyone. You never know how many of the antagonists buddies might be watching as well and waiting for others to step in.............

Could be a reason why if I want a drink , I get it with my dinner at a restaurant and I stay out of bars. Ever notice the majority of these BS scenarios seem to happen at bars ? SO eliminate bars out of your hang out spots ( drinks are overpriced anyways :p ) and you eliminate probably more than Half the problem.
 

Andy Moynihan

Senior Master
MT Mentor
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
3,692
Reaction score
176
Location
People's Banana Republic of Massachusettstan, Disu
Could be a reason why if I want a drink , I get it with my dinner at a restaurant and I stay out of bars. Ever notice the majority of these BS scenarios seem to happen at bars ? SO eliminate bars out of your hang out spots ( drinks are overpriced anyways :p ) and you eliminate probably more than Half the problem.


You got it.

If you don't wanna get pulled over for speeding, don't speed.

If you don't wanna get in trouble for stupid **** you did while drunk, don't get drunk, or better yet cut out drinking at all.

You don't wanna find yourself in bad situations, don't go to the most likely places for them to find you.
 

thesandman

Orange Belt
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
83
Reaction score
5
Location
Brooklyn NY
The most black and white issue I've ever encountered where I needed to step in physically (I've had many where my skill with words has prevented an issue) was when I came across 2 teenage boys assaulting a young teen girl. She was in tears as they laughed and slapped her around. In that instance, I did not hesitate nor give any warning. I took them down hard and fast. Didn't injure them, but put them on the ground hard enough to knock the wind from them.

Everyone's going to have their own philosophy about the relationship between the martial arts and civic defense. Personally I subscribe to "The Way of Peter Parker". That is, with great power comes great responsibility. If I see something going down, someone being hurt or potentially hurt, and I can help, I feel a responsibility to do so.

99 times out of 100, this can be accomplished without violence, but on the rare occasion where violence is required, having the discipline and control to do exactly what is required is key. Needless brutality is not only wrong, but can get you into a ton of trouble.
 

searcher

Senior Master
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
Messages
3,317
Reaction score
58
Location
Kansas
There have been some great responses here, so I will not muddy up the water.

If my friends are drinking and getting stupid, I make sure they understand that they are on their own. I am normally armed(I don't drink and therefore can be armed) and I will not risk the situation escalating into the use of lethal force. If I can get the fight to calm down, I will, butifit is headed out towards out of control, I am leaving.

As for fighting for honor, I would hope that most of us would not let pride cloud our judgement and realize that such fights, are truly few and far between. If it is just words, I am letting it go. If it is something physical, it has gone beyond honor and needs to be dealt with on some level, but most likely will not be fighting.
 

terryl965

<center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
41,259
Reaction score
340
Location
Grand Prairie Texas
There have been some great responses here, so I will not muddy up the water.

If my friends are drinking and getting stupid, I make sure they understand that they are on their own. I am normally armed(I don't drink and therefore can be armed) and I will not risk the situation escalating into the use of lethal force. If I can get the fight to calm down, I will, butifit is headed out towards out of control, I am leaving.

As for fighting for honor, I would hope that most of us would not let pride cloud our judgement and realize that such fights, are truly few and far between. If it is just words, I am letting it go. If it is something physical, it has gone beyond honor and needs to be dealt with on some level, but most likely will not be fighting.


I would have to agre with searcher on this one.
 
OP
Omar B

Omar B

Senior Master
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
3,687
Reaction score
87
Location
Queens, NY. Fort Lauderdale, FL
Many times stepping in is simply standing there silently so the attacker/offender knows you are not gonna back down. Most people see this and turn cowards.
 

suicide

Black Belt
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
566
Reaction score
10
Location
san ysidro
once while in a south american country on vacation me and 2 buddys that had just came back from iraq ( both of them are 2 old school kenpo guys ) had just got ready for the night and made are way into to town to get something to eat - while walking down this narrow sidewalk i seen 3 off duty military guys drunk *** hell coming down our way as we stepped off to let them pass one of them uses his shoulder to hit mine as soon as impact happened he started dissrespecting me saying i was an american piece of **** that i was a son of a ***** and so on and so on ... i was like its alright man in spanish we dont want no problems : but i had both of my hands out in front of me to create some kind of space in between us - i felt danger after i looked in his eyes and he wouldnt shut up disrespecting next thing i know he steps on my boot and try to head butt my face i leaned back to not get hit came back and cracked him right in his mouth i didnt knock him out but i knocked him down that night i had on some brand new timberland boots so i proceeded to stomp this dude out - then the other 2 dudes with him thought about jumping in when my boys gave out a loud kia and got in fighting stances and yelled out come on mother****er....... man them guys looked extremely shook ' we got back to the hotel packed our things went to the bus station and went to the next city a few hours away...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

chinto

Senior Master
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
2,026
Reaction score
38
will I step in? depends on what is going on, in some situations i will, others i will call the cops and continue to watch what is happening.

the call is a gut call as to risk and especially who is involved.

but remember that if you do "step in" you got a good chance in this day and age of doing at least a day or 2 in jail and having to come up with bail. then there will be lawyers fees! It will not matter if you were justified or not, the low life will provably sue you on top of it!
 

Latest Discussions

Top