suicide
Black Belt
%-}
is there a Native American Indian martial art ?
- Thread starter suicide
- Start date
Not being Native American, I do not know, but I found these via Google.
http://www.ten-no-kishi.com/aifaa.htm
http://www.tushkahoma.com/
http://www.ten-no-kishi.com/aifaa.htm
http://www.tushkahoma.com/
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2005
- Messages
- 9,930
- Reaction score
- 1,452
Not really good finds, Bill, but forgivable.
Harley Reagan is a notorious fraud:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley_Reagan
Adrian Roman teaches sort of fancied up American Kenpo, via video, with rank, and has been discussed pretty extensively here.If you use the search function for "Chief Roman" or "Adrian Roman" you can find out a lot...
There's a thread here on MT that had a pretty good discussion about Native American martial arts:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34700&highlight=native+american+martial+arts
and there are probably a couple of others. There's an Ojibwe (?) fellow up in Canada who's posted about his NA martial arts, but I don't know anything about it one way or the other-looked interesting.
Wow, thanks for letting me know! Icky. My bad guys, sorry!
Omar B
Senior Master
Pretty much every society has or had martial arts. If they fight amongst each other, other tribes or just liked to get drunk and party a bit too hard. The thing is , are these styles still around or are they lost to time.
Omar B
Senior Master
Odd that you bring up the Mayas. Yesterday their was a doc on the History Channel (I think it was named "Warriors" but don't quote me on that I was reading and had the TV on in the background). Anyways, it was an hour long and it had an ex Navy Seal guy checking out Maya weapons, he and this martial artist actually tried them out and were trying to work out the movements associated with the weapons extrapolating from their design.
But yeah, every society had a martial art, it's human nature to fight. Even peaceful societies that did not wage war still had reason to fight each other (resources, mates, etc.).
But yeah, every society had a martial art, it's human nature to fight. Even peaceful societies that did not wage war still had reason to fight each other (resources, mates, etc.).
Most if not all societies had some sort of fighting method; how structured and coherent it may have been is widely variable. With regard to Native Americans -- I'm sure there were various fighting methods shared within a tribe or nation. Whether they were spread further is more problematic. Whether any survived is seriously questionable. My personal guess, based on what I know about the various Native American tribes and cultures, is that many of the "combat" methods were closely tied to hunting methods. I simply don't think they were preserved -- especially in the face of the clear and deliberate attempts to almost eliminate their cultures.
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2005
- Messages
- 9,930
- Reaction score
- 1,452
Yeah, but you'd be wrong.
The Mohawk's reservations were chartered for them by King George II.Their language and much of their culture has remained intact, and, if you know where to look, you can find practitioners of the gajewah, or ball-headed club, who learned their skills from their fathers, and whose fathers learned it from their fathers before them, and so on back to before the time of King George.....
I saw that and really enjoyed it. Not sure how accurate the recreations were but still cool. I like how the navy seal guy just nicked his leg on the backswing with that obsidian edged war club and really gashed his leg good. Shows how incredibly sharp such a wapon was.
Peace,
Erik
Peace,
Erik
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2006
- Messages
- 3,692
- Reaction score
- 176
I would imagine that they do exist, but would also imagine teachers would be very suspicious/wary of teaching or advertising to anyone of non-Native descent.
Omar B
Senior Master
Great, somebody else saw it! That gash was pretty nasty. Hey if you know the name of the show and episode title you should post it so we could all check it out because I'm at a complete loss (I was reading a Mack Bolan novel at the time as I said).
As for Native American arts, I seem to remember last issue of Black Belt Mag having an add in there towards the front in the letters section with some guy selling a tape of some sort of native American kempo, he was all beaded out and crap so I didn't pay attention (who pays attention to the garbage ads in that mag anyways).
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2005
- Messages
- 9,930
- Reaction score
- 1,452
The show is called "Warriors," and the episode was called "Maya Amrageddon." Tivo'd it.....
THe aforementioned Adrian Roman.....:barf:
Omar B
Senior Master
I owe you a Sam Adams brother.
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2004
- Messages
- 4,753
- Reaction score
- 189
I'm sure that Native American cultures had techniques and martial practices used to each tribe that were taught from father to son. The problem is that most native cultures didn't record those techniques in any kind of durable medium.
An even BIGGER problem is that Anthropologists have tended to shy away from any serious study of the martial aspects of cultures, preferring to focus on other aspects of cultures.....which is most unfortunate.
An even BIGGER problem is that Anthropologists have tended to shy away from any serious study of the martial aspects of cultures, preferring to focus on other aspects of cultures.....which is most unfortunate.
in societies with stone-age technology, hunting was the primary martial art. with limited means of & resources for prodution, tools & hunting weapons also served as military weapons, & many similar tactics would be employed to stalk enemies or game. so if you want to emulate the martial training of the native americans, make some spears, a bow & some arrows, then start hunting stuff. preferably something big, like buffalo.
they most likely practiced some form of wrestling since most every culture does, but it was probably unsophisticated, reliant on power, & did not survive. i base this guess on the fact that numerous european wrestling styles were very popular in the 1800's (collar & elbow, cornish, backhold, catch as catch can) & no native american wrestler or wrestling style ever appeared on the circuit. if it did it didn't make big enough of an impact to be recorded. if you're looking for anything resembling the complexity of what we normally think of as martial arts, it probably wasn't there.
in addition, american indian tribes didn't keep standing armies, or place a high value on single combat beyond counting coup (to my knowledge at least), both hallmarks of cultures that have produced codified martial arts. i'm sure a few tricks here & there were passed from father to son, as sgt mac said, but your typical tribe wouldn't have had the time, technology, energy (hunting & gathering can take a lot of energy) or need to develop a dedicated empty hand combat style.
just my speculation here,
jf
they most likely practiced some form of wrestling since most every culture does, but it was probably unsophisticated, reliant on power, & did not survive. i base this guess on the fact that numerous european wrestling styles were very popular in the 1800's (collar & elbow, cornish, backhold, catch as catch can) & no native american wrestler or wrestling style ever appeared on the circuit. if it did it didn't make big enough of an impact to be recorded. if you're looking for anything resembling the complexity of what we normally think of as martial arts, it probably wasn't there.
in addition, american indian tribes didn't keep standing armies, or place a high value on single combat beyond counting coup (to my knowledge at least), both hallmarks of cultures that have produced codified martial arts. i'm sure a few tricks here & there were passed from father to son, as sgt mac said, but your typical tribe wouldn't have had the time, technology, energy (hunting & gathering can take a lot of energy) or need to develop a dedicated empty hand combat style.
just my speculation here,
jf
Last edited:
just went through the therad again & noticed this post. in the interest of being obstinant i'm going to leave up my other post & call this the exception that proves the rule.
jf
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2004
- Messages
- 4,753
- Reaction score
- 189
With the exception, as previously stated, of the Aztecs, Mayans and Incas, who with a more advanced and settle civilization would have had specialized occupations at arms, standing full time military that likely would have had some manner of codified and drilled tactics of war.........and given the constant need of attacking neighboring tribes for tribute, slaves and prisoners for sacrifice, they wouldn't have gotten quite a bit of experience. The taking of prisoners for tribute, further, would suggest that they would have developed specialized skills for subduing prisoners without killing them.
Unfortunately we may never know what those were.
