Baby steps in learning

[shesulsa]

I have noticed in observing other students that it doesn't necessarily take a learning disability to require some break-down of certain things.

For example: I can show a dora antari (a turning, jumping inside crescent kick) to people and some can just reproduce it without too much trouble and others I've had to break it down for.

This is somthing I learned from having a developmentally challenged child, but I think what I'm seeing is how each person learns so differently.

Who here has noticed this in other students or you instructors and asst. instructors in your students, and can you describe your thoughts on approach and give some examples, please?

 

[Kacey]

Speaking as both a teacher (special education) and an instructor: people are individuals, and they all learn differently; therefore, they all need (and deserve) individualized instruction.

While I am not always a fan of Gardner, his list of intelligences can help people to understand basic learning styles and how to help people who use each of them - a list can be found at http://www.uwsp.edu/education/celtProject/Parents/index.htm and similar sites (using google, search 'gardner intelligences).

Some people will, as you say, learn by seeing; others learn by hearing (detailed descriptions - depending on the person, some oral, some written); others by doing (physically manipulating them through the movement). Some require more repetition; some need more than one form of instruction. I don't think I've ever had two students (school or TKD) who learned exactly alike, and while I have broad categories of instructional strategies for both settings, I have to watch what each person is doing, and modify accordingly - and usually on the fly.

In addition, some students have physical problems that prevent them from performing the way others do (disability, injury, malformation, etc. - one of my students only has one joint in each of his toes - this plays havoc with kicks that require him to pull his toes back, because he can't - his toes don't bend that way) - and you never know just what a person can do until they try. This is further modified by how motivated the person is to succeed - some people with less native "ability" and lots of motivation will learn more and go farther than those with more "ability" and less motivation.

I wrote my IV Dan thesis on students with disabilities (ranging from short-term injuries to permanent development and/or physical disabilities) - I would be happy to share it with you if you are interested. It's a little long to post here.

 

[stickarts]

I try and key in as quickly as possible on how they learn best.
While most that I have instructed learned well by seeing, some picked it up more quickly by hearing how to do it, and some, especially kids, had to also feel how to do it. Some require a combination of all 3.
One student had dyslexia and I put a piece of tape on his wrist and would use that as a reference as to which way he was to turn: for example step toward the tape side, etc...
Teaching in small steps has most always worked best for me.

 

[stone_dragone]

I find that I used to be more a "Show me and I'll show it to you better" types of guys, now either I'm not as cocky or I'm not a quick on the uptake as I used to be. Either way, I have found that there is a major need for me, as a teacher, to break each technique down to the smallest parts so that I can focus on certain teaching cues.

I had to go so far as to write down every basic technique from the beginning to the end of the technique just so I felt comefortable enough to teach it...the Army is big on POI(Program of Instruction/learning scripts) and that has probably skewed the way that I learn and teach now.

my two bits

 

[DeLamar.J]

I have noticed in observing other students that it doesn't necessarily take a learning disability to require some break-down of certain things.

For example: I can show a dora antari (a turning, jumping inside crescent kick) to people and some can just reproduce it without too much trouble and others I've had to break it down for.

This is somthing I learned from having a developmentally challenged child, but I think what I'm seeing is how each person learns so differently.

Who here has noticed this in other students or you instructors and asst. instructors in your students, and can you describe your thoughts on approach and give some examples, please?

I have noticed that some people have more natural talent that others. Some people just have a nack for martial arts, and some dont. I knew a guy that was very book smart, but certain martial art techniques would just be too much for him. But he could skim through a math book and pass a test, where the guy who learns martial arts quickly, would have to study for weeks.
I have noticed that people who take longer to learn benifit greatly from that long learning process. They are able to break down every piece of the movement and understand it completely, where someone with natural talent can just pick it right up but not really know how or why it works the way it does.
I used to train a man with down syndrome, and I had to show him basicly one technique every four or five days, or he would forget. People with a disability just need someone who is patient and kind to them, and they respond very well. Certain people with an attitude could show him the same techniques as me, but because he could feel my kindness toward him, he would learn quicker. In short, people with disabillities need kindness plain and simple!
One thing I have learned about the mentally handicap, is that they seem to have a sixth sense. He could tell if I was having a bad day, even though I felt I was concealing it very well. He could sense a persons intentions more than most normal people. I just always felt as if he could see right through me. Its hard to explain.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I have noticed that some people have more natural talent that others. Some people just have a nack for martial arts, and some dont.

true but how do you handle the student who has shown up 3 night a week for just over a year and still can not do 2 or your 3 basic kicks correctly and has no idea what areas of the body ( brain, kiddney, shoulder, what have you) that a certian or any block covers. This is after the kicks and blocks have been gone over step by step almost every night, while saying cover the groin, kiddney, shoulder and across to the center of the chest ( or any simular discription).
Im not talking about a person with a mental handicap but ont that dose well in school

 

[Kacey]

true but how do you handle the student who has shown up 3 night a week for just over a year and still can not do 2 or your 3 basic kicks correctly and has no idea what areas of the body ( brain, kiddney, shoulder, what have you) that a certian or any block covers. This is after the kicks and blocks have been gone over step by step almost every night, while saying cover the groin, kiddney, shoulder and across to the center of the chest ( or any simular discription).
Im not talking about a person with a mental handicap but ont that dose well in school

I would commend the person for continuing to come and try to improve despite the difficulties demonstrated, and try to find a method of instruction that would help such a dedicated student to improve.

When I started TKD, I sucked. I couldn't hold the right foot position, couldn't make a proper fist, had no stamina, poor coordination... I was horrible. I could remember everything, but I had a horrible time performing any of it. But my instructor and the senior students at the dojang showed me techniques over and over, as many different ways as they could, and I got better... eventually. That was 19 years ago, and, unlike the others in the class who were there when I started, I'm still here - and all the rest of them are gone for a wide variety of reason. You never know who will persevere until time goes by and you see who stays. For myself, it was, I think, much harder for me to learn than many of the people around me - and therefore every technique I learned was a personal triumph, rather than the given it was for the more naturally-athletic in the class. Those small triumphs encouraged me to continue - unlike many of the naturally-athletic, who got easily to the middle colored belt ranks, and then quit when they were taught something that didn't come easily - and then it was no longer fun, so they quit.

If this student has difficulty and continues to come, then s/he must be getting something out of it - or why keep coming? Have you talked to this student about the cause of the difficulty? Tried changing the instructional methods? Moving him/her bodily through movements? Videos? Having different people work with this person to see if another person's methods are more effective?

I would refer you to this thread for more information on learning styles.

 

[Carol]

I can't learn visually very well at all. My eyes play so many tricks on me sometimes I have to close my eyes or look down at the mat and focus on what my instructor is saying.

I learn kinesthetically but...that's rather time consuming for an instructor with multiple students...as well as a rather understanding teacher.

Recently I've been thinking a lot about how I am taught vs. how I learn. Aside from the kinesthetics...I think I'm missing something, but I can't put my finger on what.

I'm used to being able to process a ferocious amount of unfamiliar material and in MA I can't. For the last year I've been told to be patient and that it all takes time...but...now I'm growing a little bit impatient.

I'm not sure what the answer is. But...whatever it is, I'm still looking for it.

 

[tshadowchaser]

kacey,

Its not that the person can't learn its that they just dont care enough to put forth the effort to do it correctly. They like to play DUMB to get more attention. If I make them do it by the numbers 4 times in a row the fifth will look nothing like the other four because it take more effort to do it correctly.
After 35+ years in the arts I damn near closed my school the other night out of frustration watching this person take time away from others that want to learn. The only reason I haven't thrown her out is because she pays her dues on time ( and yes I need that little extra cash to pay the bills)
I have the code of conduct posted in 3 areas of the school in plain sight but after five nights of asking her what the code was she still has no clue. She dose not care enough to look even after being asked. I have given small homework assignments but if it involves looking up anything in a book or on the internet she never dose any of them.
How many times in a year can you tell someone to block their head and still have them drop their hand on the next move they do.
I have tried almost every training skill I have ever heard of to get this person to stop thinking the whole thing is a game .
I am open to suggestion on how to get basic drills and concepts through this persons head. I sure cant do it the way I was trained because she would be in the hospial befor the end of the next class if i did.

 

[Kacey]

I have had students who behave in that fashion. I provide them with the same basic attention as other students, and provide additional assistance to those whose effort merits it. Eventually, the student will come and ask why s/he is not getting the same amount of intensive assistance. I will then explaing that everyone gets the same level of instruction, but those who demonstrate effort (by raising their hands, trying and getting stuck, etc.) will receive additional assistance sooner, and those who don't will get whatever time and assistance is left over. These students either change their attitude or leave.

 

[tshadowchaser]

good advice
I also think a month of hard excersise and only basics may do the trick however im not sure it will sink in
I'll give both a try this month
nyone also care to chime in as this thread is about takeing baby steps what baby steps can you give for advice