Sport vs self defense.

[GojuTommy]

What Icey mike says has largely been my experience with the situations I’ve encountered.

For a skilled sport fighter, often an adjustment of mindset and being able to quickly identify which mindset you need, along with some discussion about tactics and the actual goal of self defense is all the additional training needed.

 

[Jared Traveler]

What Icey mike says has largely been my experience with the situations I’ve encountered.

For a skilled sport fighter, often an adjustment of mindset and being able to quickly identify which mindset you need, along with some discussion about tactics and the actual goal of self defense is all the additional training needed.

Am I the only one who can't stand "Icey Mike"?

 

[GojuTommy]

Am I the only one who can't stand "Icey Mike"?

Lot of people don’t like him, he’s confident, a lot of people in the martial arts world especially the self defense sub-sect don’t like it.
His knowledge is also based on a lot of real world experience, something the overwhelming majority of the self style self defense gurus lack, so his confidence irks them, and much what he says contradicts what they believe.

If these reasons are not your reasons I hope you don’t take this personally.

 

[skribs]

For a skilled sport fighter, often an adjustment of mindset and being able to quickly identify which mindset you need, along with some discussion about tactics and the actual goal of self defense is all the additional training needed.

I think that "sport vs. self-defense" is sort of the "striking vs. grappling" of our time. I feel the general consensus right now is that striking and grappling both have their place. But I also feel that sport and "self-defense" (whether it's a focused system like Krav Maga or a piece of a curriculum like in Taekwondo) also have their place.

Sport is very good at testing what works and what doesn't, and about finding ways to make things work against a noncompliant opponent. However, it brings this mentality that a real fight situation is one where:

• Both of us know we're going to fight
• My opponent is trained in the same things I am
• My opponent's goal is to knock me out, choke me out, or break my arm
• My goal is to knock him out, choke him, or break his arm

You also get these assessments:

• If your opponent has a weapon, you will automatically lose, because you can't defend against it
• If my opponent has a weapon, I will win, because I know how to wrestle
• Any techniques we can't use in my art are useless

I feel that while most people agree we need a mix of striking and grappling, I think we also need a mix of sport and self-defense. And you don't necessarily need to compete in the sport, or agree with everything you learn in the self-defense class. It's more about the thought process that goes into it. Like with Martial Arts Journey, and how he went away from Aikido for three years, only to come back and apply the training principles he learned in MMA and its various component arts to make the Aikido work better.

Or how someone who trains BJJ or MMA could look at knife defense and pressure test various ideas to come up with a system that's more likely to succeed, like FightSmart did.

Someone who looks at Krav Maga and dismisses it as LARPing and someone who looks at BJJ and says it wouldn't work in the street are both just as wrong as someone who says boxing is dumb because they have no take-down defense.

Am I the only one who can't stand "Icey Mike"?

He's hit-or-miss for me. A perfect example of both is his endorsement of flashlights as self-defense weapons, when compared with guns. He is very correct about their utility as a self-defense weapon and various ways in which you can use them. But then he goes on to say that the only thing you can do with a gun is shoot someone, when very often the mere presence of a gun will scare off an attacker, or you can use the gun to keep a home invader compliant until the police arrive. There's a lot more ways to use the gun in self defense than just "pew pew".

I was finding that I'd watch a video of his and subscribe, and then watch the next one and unsubscribe. Eventually I just stopped subscribing.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Lot of people don’t like him, he’s confident, a lot of people in the martial arts world especially the self defense sub-sect don’t like it.
His knowledge is also based on a lot of real world experience, something the overwhelming majority of the self style self defense gurus lack, so his confidence irks them, and much what he says contradicts what they believe.

If these reasons are not your reasons I hope you don’t take this personally.

Ha! No, his experience is part of why I try to give him a pass. But with that said, as a cop I think I would turn him down as a partner and not let him hump calls with me.

 

[skribs]

Lot of people don’t like him, he’s confident, a lot of people in the martial arts world especially the self defense sub-sect don’t like it.
His knowledge is also based on a lot of real world experience, something the overwhelming majority of the self style self defense gurus lack, so his confidence irks them, and much what he says contradicts what they believe.

If these reasons are not your reasons I hope you don’t take this personally.

Eh...he does say a lot of wrong things though. I mentioned in my above post about how "the only thing you can do with a gun is shoot them".

But there are some videos that he tests things, and there's flaws in his methods. A big example is when he (and a few others) were testing how easy it is to protect yourself from a groin kick. It's similar to the guy who was showing off how to avoid getting punched in the head. It is very easy to protect a single part of your body if you are not also required to counterattack.

An exaggerated example is if you win by slapping my left hand, and I win if you don't, then I'm just going to turn my body so I'm pushing you with my right hand, and my left hand is behind me.

I've taken enough groin shots in Taekwondo and in my 3 months of BJJ to know that it's not so easy to defend against 100% of them.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Am I the only one who can't stand "Icey Mike"?

A lot of these online backyard or street fighter types (who actually train) can get a little full of themselves.

What I've seen of Icy Mike wasn't the worst I've seen, and he has been in a few videos of the typical "calling you out!" Variety, which can be funny/sad/scary depending.

 

[GojuTommy]

Ha! No, his experience is part of why I try to give him a pass. But with that said, as a cop I think I would turn him down as a partner and not let him hump calls with me.

He’s got a sense of humor that is similar to mine, but according to my gf my sense of humor might be why I don’t have friends these days lol.

 

[Jared Traveler]

I actually watched the video now. The reason I don't like Mike is because my impression is, he's seems like he's probably a jerk most of the time. As a former/current cop, I hate that in cops the most.

With that said, the video seemed like a lot of rambling. What part of his opinion were you most in agreement with?

 

[drop bear]

I actually watched the video now. The reason I don't like Mike is because my impression is, he's seems like he's probably a jerk most of the time. As a former/current cop, I hate that in cops the most.

With that said, the video seemed like a lot of rambling. What part of his opinion were you most in agreement with?

I am the other way and don't like the LEO image that SDers tend to use.

If someone says brachiel stun I basically switch off.

 

[Tez3]

Am I the only one who can't stand "Icey Mike"?

I've never heard of him and I learnt nothing on Google about him but I really, really wish I hadn't looked.

 

[GojuTommy]

I actually watched the video now. The reason I don't like Mike is because my impression is, he's seems like he's probably a jerk most of the time. As a former/current cop, I hate that in cops the most.

With that said, the video seemed like a lot of rambling. What part of his opinion were you most in agreement with?

That there’s little to no physical specialized self defense training necessary for an experienced sport fighter. Most of the training necessary will be mental/psychological, changing the the approach rather than any physical techniques used.

 

[skribs]

I've never heard of him and I learnt nothing on Google about him but I really, really wish I hadn't looked.

He's a former cop who makes a lot of hot takes about martial arts and self-defense. Some of his takes I agree with, some I disagree, and some I'm somewhere in the middle on. If I give him the benefit of the doubt, I think his main goal is to get people to think outside of their bubble, because he will sometimes side with the sport guys, and sometimes with the self-defense guys.

The problem is he doesn't come across like he's thinking outside of his bubble. Every one of his hot takes is delivered as if it is undisputable fact, and if you're going to do that, then you should be right 100% of the time.

 

[Oily Dragon]

A good counter example to Icy Mike's style is Ramsey Dewey.

The "Chill the hell out" modality is far more valuable imho, than the gonzo style stuff Mike has been into.

And for those who don't know, that's involved a lot of Ninjas.

 

[skribs]

A good counter example to Icy Mike's style is Ramsey Dewey.

The "Chill the hell out" modality is far more valuable imho, than the gonzo style stuff Mike has been into.

And for those who don't know, that's involved a lot of Ninjas.

I actually have the same problems with Ramsey Dewey as I do Icy Mike. He'll test ideas, do them wrong, and then claim they don't work.

 

[Oily Dragon]

I actually have the same problems with Ramsey Dewey as I do Icy Mike. He'll test ideas, do them wrong, and then claim they don't work.

It's all about the tone, for me.

Ramsey engages me.

Mike used to intrigue me, he turned me off this one time he shamelessly beat up a mentally deranged lunatic on camera, someone who clearly needed psychiatric help but ended up in Icy Mike's web. Most of this I only know from reading other MA websites, but yeah...at least Ramsey is academic about it. And he makes mistakes. Sometimes he owns up, sometimes not. Not an easy game to play, you know.

People like Icy Mike actually beat up sick people on camera, which I don't think is cool.

Honestly, I can beat up a lot of people, I would never put them on public display for laughs.

 

[skribs]

It's all about the tone, for me.

Ramsey engages me.

Mike used to intrigue me, he turned me off this one time he shamelessly beat up a mentally deranged lunatic on camera, someone who clearly needed psychiatric help but ended up in Icy Mike's web. Most of this I only know from reading other MA websites, but yeah...at least Ramsey is academic about it. And he makes mistakes. Sometimes he owns up, sometimes not. Not an easy game to play, you know.

People like Icy Mike actually beat up sick people on camera, which I don't think is cool.

Honestly, I can beat up a lot of people, I would never put them on public display for laughs.

Can you link a video? This is a very bold claim and I've never seen him do this.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Can you link a video? This is a very bold claim and I've never seen him do this.

I'd rather not. I'm sure if you go look it's under one of this challenge fights, but some mental patient/convict who claimed to be a ninja ended up doing a backyard fight and Mike clocked this dude who was probably drugged out at the time, he himself was a big YouTuber ninja. There were years of forum fallout after.

There's a whole 10+ year history of these fights, but honestly, seeing Mike hurt this dude bothered me. Don't hit sick people man....what's wrong with just training.

I just think online fights are the dumbest thing the Internet produced.

 

[skribs]

I'd rather not. I'm sure if you go look it's under one of this challenge fights, but some mental patient/convict who claimed to be a ninja ended up doing a backyard fight and Mike clocked this dude who was probably drugged out at the time, he himself was a big YouTuber ninja. There were years of forum fallout after.

There's a whole 10+ year history of these fights, but honestly, seeing Mike hurt this dude bothered me. Don't hit sick people man....what's wrong with just training.

I just think online fights are the dumbest thing the Internet produced.

Did both fighters consent to the fight? If so, you can't really blame him. If he's going around picking fights with homeless people, then yes, it's a problem.

Like I said, this is a wild accusation, and if you're not going to back it up, then I recommend not making it.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Did both fighters consent to the fight? If so, you can't really blame him. If he's going around picking fights with homeless people, then yes, it's a problem.

Like I said, this is a wild accusation, and if you're not going to back it up, then I recommend not making it.

The guy might have actually been homeless. He was definitely insane and walking down streets filming himself.

I backed it up, too. I pointed out it's on Google.

I don't want to violate the TOS. Can I post challenge fights here? I consider this NSFW.