minding your own business, when suddenly, a huge, fast moving man comes at you running at full steam, frothing at the mouth yelling "I'm going to kill you!" You have no time to run, no time to hide, no time to pull out a gun, no time to do anything except react FAST or get slammed into by this seemingly insane or drug crazy behemoth baring down on you fast! What do you do? Do you side step him, perhaps trip him, use his force against him, let physics or gravity do the rest and watch him slam into the ground and than go the opposite direction of him FAST. Or do you hit him with some nifty blow into just the right nerve cluster and watch him collapse to your immense relief. Do you grab him and pull him down and put him in some BJJ hold that not even the Gracies could break out of. Or do you do something else. All opinions appreciated.
So your in some urban hellhole...
- Thread starter Joab
- Start date
I'm huge. He better be really really huge, or he's going to bounce off me and then I'll sit on him.
We're talking sumo wrestler size, perhaps a former sumo wrestler, coming at you fast. He's moving fast, your stationary, and your going down if he slams into you, physics takes over.
Depends on the hellhole. Urban environments by definition have a high population density. Chances are I'm not alone out there and chances are I'm not the one he's looking for.
If he's got enough space to come running at me fullspeed then it it ain't exactly downtown at rush hour so I would likely have room to move about myself. If the threat continues, so would my response. If the threat stopped, so would my resonse.
My first move would likely be getting off his centerline, one way or another.
If he's got enough space to come running at me fullspeed then it it ain't exactly downtown at rush hour so I would likely have room to move about myself. If the threat continues, so would my response. If the threat stopped, so would my resonse.
My first move would likely be getting off his centerline, one way or another.
tellner
Senior Master
OK, first why "an urban hellhole"? Won't you be smashed equally flat if it's a bucolic paradise or a soul-sucking suburban stripmall? There's subtext here. I'm not going to get any further into it but will leave that as an exercise to the reader.
As for what I'd do, Steve Perry has the best answer: "There's a lot of things I might do. I don't rightly know which one I would do. The only way to know is to find out."
As for what I'd do, Steve Perry has the best answer: "There's a lot of things I might do. I don't rightly know which one I would do. The only way to know is to find out."
Empty Hands
Senior Master
Get the hell out of the way! Then do something fun while he destroys the air where you used to be.
1st thing... you do realize how much distance a sumo sized person has to have to get running up to full speed don't you? Yes, I know large people can be extraordinarily quick but I've seen some that need some distance to cover to get that speed up.
2nd probably the first thing that goes through my mind is "what the... ?" then second thing is to see how clumsy he's moving... how much time between the moment that I spot him and to where he and I will initiate contact and what exactly can I get away with. If I'm REALLY lucky I will spot him just in time to count 1001 and duck and stick my leg out to clip him at the shins and make him go flying, if not well. He'd better start in on me from the word get go because I'm not going to stand there and try to divine his intentions. Tiger/Dragon is what I'm going to try and imitate on his big ***. Scratching clawing going for his eyes and other vitals including digging my fingers into the soft of his neck and trying to grab that artery and give it a twist yank or whatever, he does NOT want me to get to anywhere vital on him... nor have me have access to my folder.
3. What made you come up with this unlikely scenario? Has it happened to you?
Ok, forget the urban hell hole, but its in an area with concrete, nothing soft around you. "urban hellhole" comes from my experiences living in an urban hellhole years ago, an area known for it's crack cocaine. I nearly had my door kicked down by a crack addict once and my life threatened. I was attacked in that urban hellhole by another crack addict on the street. I now live in a rural area none of that has happened to me here...
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MA-CAver said:
Unlikely scenario? I've spent weeks in Chattanooga, you hometown, you have your fair share of dregs of society there. Well, it's a scenario that scares the beejesus out of me quite frankly, I like your response, might work if your arms arn't pinned down by the maniac as you go slamming into the concrete. Than again, if you work quick you might keep that from happening.
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Deaf Smith
Master of Arts
I draw my licensed .40 S&W Glock 27 and empty it in something like 1.5 seconds. If he is still running toward me have absorbing all that, I'll just reload and repeat with some head shots thrown in.
Did you think I was going to play fair?
Deaf
Did you think I was going to play fair?
Deaf
Well, I'm big, and, I'm told, more than a little scary looking. This just isn't likely to happen if he doesn't know me. Odds are better that I'd be ambushed-especially if he knows me. So he's obviously deranged, and doesn't know me from Adam.
I've got wonder, though, if I see him coming, and have time to hear him establish his intentions, why I don't have time to:
a) Run. I'm good at that. Odds are good I'd outrun him, huge as he is.
b) Draw and shoot. He's said he's going to kill me, he's obviously deranged, and I do carry. I should think that with all the drawing and shooting I do I'd have him in my sights on "...a kill....."
c) Or, since I'm in an "urban hellhole" where I might not be legal to carry a pistol, , draw my knife (or pen! ) and , if it's the knife, cut him three ways.
d)KICK HIS KNEE, HARD. This one has worked every time I've had to, for over 30 years.....
e) Any of the above, depending upon circumstances, with a strong tendency towards "a" or "d'
f) Throw my arms wide, smile without showing any teeth, call him "brother," and disarm him with my winning personality and obvious innocence (this has, believe it or not, worked under the same sort of circumstances on more than one occasion...)
Yeah, I'll take "e", with the usual "overkill" follow-through for "d" for $500, Alex. :lol:
I've got wonder, though, if I see him coming, and have time to hear him establish his intentions, why I don't have time to:
a) Run. I'm good at that. Odds are good I'd outrun him, huge as he is.
b) Draw and shoot. He's said he's going to kill me, he's obviously deranged, and I do carry. I should think that with all the drawing and shooting I do I'd have him in my sights on "...a kill....."
c) Or, since I'm in an "urban hellhole" where I might not be legal to carry a pistol, , draw my knife (or pen! ) and , if it's the knife, cut him three ways.
d)KICK HIS KNEE, HARD. This one has worked every time I've had to, for over 30 years.....
e) Any of the above, depending upon circumstances, with a strong tendency towards "a" or "d'
f) Throw my arms wide, smile without showing any teeth, call him "brother," and disarm him with my winning personality and obvious innocence (this has, believe it or not, worked under the same sort of circumstances on more than one occasion...)
Yeah, I'll take "e", with the usual "overkill" follow-through for "d" for $500, Alex. :lol:
mook jong man
Senior Master
Depends a bit how his arms are positioned , when he is running at me. Somebody that big and moving at that speed , you definitely want to get off the line of attack .
If his arms are out , just before he gets to me I will step 45 degrees to the side , parry his arm , and elbow strike him somewhere along the side of his ribcage , preferably up near his armpit , then follow up as needed.
If his arms are down then I still step 45 degrees to the side , grab his shoulders and upper arm and do a round house knee into the bladder.
Then follow up with whatever is appropriate for the range and position of his body.
If his arms are out , just before he gets to me I will step 45 degrees to the side , parry his arm , and elbow strike him somewhere along the side of his ribcage , preferably up near his armpit , then follow up as needed.
If his arms are down then I still step 45 degrees to the side , grab his shoulders and upper arm and do a round house knee into the bladder.
Then follow up with whatever is appropriate for the range and position of his body.
In this scenario there is no time to pull out your gun.
I can draw my gun and/or my knife DAMN FAST. If there is no time for that, chances are I didnt see him coming in the first place and I'm already on the ground being killed.
But for sake of argument, If he's running twords me, see... and I need time to draw my weapon I follow SOP and move offline and BACK UP. If there is a wall behind me and I cant back up, then HE'S screwed because if he's really Sumo-Sized AND moving that fast, well, His Mass + Speed will probably knock him out when his head hits that wall...
Then, because I'm an evil prick, I'd break both his wrists and ankles while he was out, just to make him think about it when he wakes up.
In the 7 years that I lived in downtown Boston, if I emptied my clip in to every wacko that yelled something unpleasant and was moving in my direction, I'd be in an orange jumpsuit at MCI-Framingham right now instead of a comfortable exurban apartment.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Sorry, Joab, this is not a reasonable scenario to be answered. You have put forth a situation where you see an attack coming, but then you have our options limited due to lack of time? Then you want us to give you our response to the attack? I'm afraid that cannot be done. The best you can hope to get from us here is a thought-out answer based on experience and training, but that is by no means a real answer. In the situation you propose, there is no time to "think things out". The only answer is to experience it and find out (as previously stated).
There is simply not enough information to give a realistic answer, all we have is a big guy charging at us... how are their arms? How far away are they? Are they coming in looking like they are going to grab, hit, or ram with their shoulder? How much room do you have to move? If I can't draw and shoot (far less likely here in Australia, in any case), do I have other weapons? Does he? Does he have friends? Do I? Are there witnesses? What are the surroundings? Are there buildings, or cars? Can you see where I'm going with this?
The only thing I can say is that our tactics dictate a certain type of response, as for the particular application of technique, well, who knows? The sad fact of these type of hypothetical "What if?" questions is that they often belie a deeper issue, which is one of fear. This is in and of itself not a bad thing, as fear and greed are probably the best motivators that exist (just watch any advertising for that), and can generate new ideas and concepts to deal with changing conditions. The problem comes in when you start focusing on these scary scenarios over gaining an understanding of the tactics and principles of your chosen art.
By training the principles, you will find that you won't have the exact answer for every exact situation, but you will have a guide, or template, which you can adapt ot fit each and every situation. If you focus on individual situations (as here), all you are really doing is limiting your understanding and wasting energy on the unpreparable and unknowable. Your ability to handle such frightening scenarios (to you, others may have other things that scare them) will come not from spending time and energy thinking about them. That will just leave you scared, not improve your confidence at handling yourself (which is what you will actually need). I don't want to get too much int the psychology here, but you are simply repeating a loop in your head based on being afraid and feeling you can't handle something, and that would need to change.
But, when all is said and done, this is also a very common thought process with most people, particularly martial artists, and most commonly with the less experienced or more fearful. So don't take anything I've said too harshly, it's all been quite gentle, really. And it's all just part of the growth process.
Joab, this literally happened to me.
But I understand that there are mentally ill individuals out there who need more help that a butt-kicking.
Working as a bike guide in downtown STL, a guy approached me while I sat on my bike and snatched a pen out of my bike pants (the last time i'll ever wear a pen/sharp object in the open) and ice picked it, saying... of all things...
"Get my mom outta your pocket! I'll kill you!"
Threat? Yep. Crazy? Definitely.
For all intents and purposes, yes, he could have stabbed me. Yes, I could have escalated force and snapped him down and beat the ever-loving crap out of him.
But people in any "right" mind don't really do that. Even in what you call "urban hellholes" (As a "city snob" I find the term slightly insulting, but especially so coming from you).
I didn't hurt the guy. I made space between myself and the guy, using my bike, t-rexed my arms, opened my hands and used a calm, but forceful voice and said "Buddy, please don't do that. You need help? Want some food? You've got it. Besides, there are two coppers over there that would rather be with their families on Thanksgiving and wouldn't like taking you in. Want that? Put the pen down, and I'll get you someplace warm and maybe some soup. Good? Good."
When I got him to a shelter (two steps behind on an angle with my bike between us... made some spastic small talk... nice guy... just kind of nuts) one of the workers was happy to see him. The guy was certainly off his meds, and went missing for a few days. He got a hot cup of soup and a warm place to stay for the night.
It was a win-win in my book.
I'm not going out of my way to hurt anyone. Especially the downtrodden who live in the "urban hellholes" you look down upon. In the end, they're human beings with their own problems. You can look at a person like that as a human being, while being fully capable of defending yourself.
You scenario is unrealistic, and implies that you are looking for a chance for violence. I suggest getting your mind out of these scenarios and possibly finding your own answers in your training, and possibly competition.
But I understand that there are mentally ill individuals out there who need more help that a butt-kicking.
Working as a bike guide in downtown STL, a guy approached me while I sat on my bike and snatched a pen out of my bike pants (the last time i'll ever wear a pen/sharp object in the open) and ice picked it, saying... of all things...
"Get my mom outta your pocket! I'll kill you!"
Threat? Yep. Crazy? Definitely.
For all intents and purposes, yes, he could have stabbed me. Yes, I could have escalated force and snapped him down and beat the ever-loving crap out of him.
But people in any "right" mind don't really do that. Even in what you call "urban hellholes" (As a "city snob" I find the term slightly insulting, but especially so coming from you).
I didn't hurt the guy. I made space between myself and the guy, using my bike, t-rexed my arms, opened my hands and used a calm, but forceful voice and said "Buddy, please don't do that. You need help? Want some food? You've got it. Besides, there are two coppers over there that would rather be with their families on Thanksgiving and wouldn't like taking you in. Want that? Put the pen down, and I'll get you someplace warm and maybe some soup. Good? Good."
When I got him to a shelter (two steps behind on an angle with my bike between us... made some spastic small talk... nice guy... just kind of nuts) one of the workers was happy to see him. The guy was certainly off his meds, and went missing for a few days. He got a hot cup of soup and a warm place to stay for the night.
It was a win-win in my book.
I'm not going out of my way to hurt anyone. Especially the downtrodden who live in the "urban hellholes" you look down upon. In the end, they're human beings with their own problems. You can look at a person like that as a human being, while being fully capable of defending yourself.
You scenario is unrealistic, and implies that you are looking for a chance for violence. I suggest getting your mind out of these scenarios and possibly finding your own answers in your training, and possibly competition.
