Slap-Check

[Brother John]

I was just curious, I'd heard this term bandied about from time to time in diverse corners of the internet and finally can't take it anymore.... what is it? I always thought it was just a term for a really fast check, the kind you do 'on the way to' a target. Maybe I'm wrong. That's happened before. (Just ask J.D., he was there when I was wrong that one time)
Anyway, I've always considered myself a fairly 'informed' Kenpoist, but I guess I skipped this class.
Thanks for any and all enlightenment....
Your Brother
John

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

Hey Brother J,

I've only heard one person refer to something as a slap-check, so I thought I would post their definition as it is written on their site.

398) SLAP-BLOCK - An open handed palm strike used defensively as a blocking maneuver. See LAP-SAO.
399) SLAP-CHECK - An open handed palm strike that positions the hand to possibly be used offensively and/or defensively, and assists timing, and/or power through directional harmony. See PAK-SAO.
400) SLAP-CHECK - A hit that may be used offensively and/or defensively that positions the hands and assists timing, and/or power through directional harmony.

pasted from Sublevel4 website

According to this definition, I can guarantee you that you are already doing this. It's in every technique, all the timing patterns, and the 2 man sets in the AKKI. Remember it's not the name that is important but the principles.

The FMA guys do a stick drill that they call Siniwali. We know it as the 6 count. It is, for all practical purposes, the same drill. So it's not the name that makes it important but your ability to use this principle under fire. Hope this helps, but I'm sure we will be hearing from "others" very shortly.

Hope to see you in March.

 

[Brother John]

I get it.
Cool. So it's a term that Mr. Chapel uses. OK. Like he's fond of saying... "You say tommato..."

Interesting side note: 6 count.
YEARS ago I attended a FMA seminar by Grandmaster Presas and learnd sinawali.... been doing it for years now, and really like it. I especially like to do it empty-handed and alter the strikes, or to look at them as parry-strike, parry-strike. Gets interesting! More than glad to see pretty much the same thing in our curriculum!!!

I also hope to see you in March. IF (and that's a word bigger than it's letters) IF I can get the funds together. Getting from Kansas to Vegas is no small jump for this poor boy!

Later Bro..
Your Brother
John

 

[jeffkyle]

John,
You won't be able to use that excuse for much longer...with that new airline that is supposed to go directly to Vegas from Wichita.

 

[Brother John]

Do you know when that's supposed to start???
That'll be much better, as long as the rates are reasonable.
thanks
your bro
John

 

[cdhall]

Are Slap-Checks related to Rebounding?
I had not really noticed this term "Rebounding" until I was at Mr. Speakman's seminar last week, but I found it in the Encyclopedia of Kenpo so I guess it has been around for some time. I think Mr. Speakman demonstrated it in a '94 seminar but he didn't give it a name or I didn't notice.

I thought Slap-Checks had something to do with the "depth-charge" effects of Mr. Parker's strikes.

I'm confused about all this if Mr. C or Doc want to chime in, I know this is out there on the web somewhere. If it is also covered here in MT, let me know and I'll go read it. Thanks.

 

[jfarnsworth]

After the first time I seen the "slap check" I thought it should be more appropriately called a "rebounding check" . That's just my thought.

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth
After the first time I seen the "slap check" I thought it should be more appropriately called a "rebounding check" . That's just my thought.

Not necessarily. Slap checks are techniques that belong within offensive and defensive movements. Conceptually they run very deep and have sub cats and multiple principles working within thier framework simultaneously depending on application of course.

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Rainman
Not necessarily. Slap checks are techniques that belong within offensive and defensive movements. Conceptually they run very deep and have sub cats and multiple principles working within thier framework simultaneously depending on application of course.

Absolutely correct. You da "Rain - Man." The definition on our site is a simplistic one used to explain it to beginners. The depth of the "slap-check" goes waaaaaaaaaaay beyond such simple concepts as "rebounding" or "positioning." They must be taught within the framework of the applications, and executed incorrectly, can cause significant damage to those using them in a true combat scenario.

Although Mr. Parker "slap-checked, he NEVER wrote one word about their proper use. Although he learned them from several notable Chinese Masters, his early use of them most resembled his lessons from the Chinese art "Slapping Hands" as learned from Ark Wong and "Tiny" lefiti.

Kinda makes you wonder what else he DIDN'T teach everybody

 

[jfarnsworth]

OK, here's what I'm looking at as a slap check. Maybe I don't have the exact concept either of you two (rainman and doc) have. Circles of proctection; the movement of the left hand moving from the chin and checking the attacker's right arm down. From this position my right hand strikes the groin and the left loads up shoulder height to bounce off of and to strike the opponent's face. This is what "I" would call a rebounding check. Are we kind of on the same lines? This is just the first example that came to mind.

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by Doc
Kinda makes you wonder what else he DIDN'T teach everybody

White flag. Peace. White flag. :wavey:

I was shocked at this so I waited for a time and place to bring it up.

But in the Mr. Speakman seminar I recently attended, when he was elaborating on the knife techniques he changed he said that he changed them to reflect what they had been doing in knife fighting workouts with Mr. Paker.

He said that is why he changed them, to be consistent with what they were doing in knife fighting. If other people didn't understand or didn't like it or thought they needed to go to other arts to study knifework, he disagreed. He said something like he was not responsible for what Mr. Parker didn't teach them or what they didn't know, but that he was working off of/from what Mr. Parker was working with him and his classmates at Mr. Parker's house.

Sounded very familiar to me. I wonder where I'd heard something like that before...

Thanks for posting Doc. Nice to read from you again.

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Doc
Absolutely correct. You da "Rain - Man." The definition on our site is a simplistic one used to explain it to beginners. The depth of the "slap-check" goes waaaaaaaaaaay beyond such simple concepts as "rebounding" or "positioning." They must be taught within the framework of the applications, and executed incorrectly, can cause significant damage to those using them in a true combat scenario.

Although Mr. Parker "slap-checked, he NEVER wrote one word about their proper use. Although he learned them from several notable Chinese Masters, his early use of them most resembled his lessons from the Chinese art "Slapping Hands" as learned from Ark Wong and "Tiny" lefiti.

Kinda makes you wonder what else he DIDN'T teach everybody

Well that's obvious- it would have to be my other new best friend pam and all her friends that work with her!!!

:asian:

 

[jazkiljok]

Originally posted by cdhall
White flag. Peace. White flag. :wavey:

I was shocked at this so I waited for a time and place to bring it up.

But in the Mr. Speakman seminar I recently attended, when he was elaborating on the knife techniques he changed he said that he changed them to reflect what they had been doing in knife fighting workouts with Mr. Paker.

He said that is why he changed them, to be consistent with what they were doing in knife fighting. If other people didn't understand or didn't like it or thought they needed to go to other arts to study knifework, he disagreed. He said something like he was not responsible for what Mr. Parker didn't teach them or what they didn't know, but that he was working off of/from what Mr. Parker was working with him and his classmates at Mr. Parker's house.

Sounded very familiar to me. I wonder where I'd heard something like that before...

Thanks for posting Doc. Nice to read from you again.

i have read a few old interviews of mr. speakman where he speaks of "doc" chapel as his teacher of material that he wasn't aware of at the time of Mr. Parker's passing.

i too am glad to see Doc posting again.

the old chinese have a saying that goes"You can never tell how deep is the sea, until you jump in it".--- for those who think they know and are so sure of themselves in their knowledge of certain things--that alone should tell them that they are merely treading water.

peace

:asian:

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Rainman
Well that's obvious- it would have to be my other new best friend pam and all her friends that work with her!!!

:asian:

Now you know nobody got that one but me.

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by Doc
Now you know nobody got that one but me.

Right. I was wondering what happened. I'm glad I was not supposed to "get it."

 

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Doc
Now you know nobody got that one but me.

You talking about a platform alignment mechanism? Or am I reading too much into your inside joke...

jb:asian:

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by jbkenpo
You talking about a platform alignment mechanism? Or am I reading too much into your inside joke...

jb:asian:

Thank you everyone fr the kind comments. It is much appreciated.

JB, it's only an "inside joke" if you are on the outside. Obviously you're not. You aren't the only one that has visited me you know. Some have actually come THIS millieum. :asian:

 

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Doc
Thank you everyone fr the kind comments. It is much appreciated.

JB, it's only an "inside joke" if you are on the outside. Obviously you're not. You aren't the only one that has visited me you know. Some have actually come THIS millieum. :asian:

LOL, I definitely need to make it back up there (maybe this year) if I'm still welcome.

jb:asian:

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by jbkenpo
LOL, I definitely need to make it back up there (maybe this year) if I'm still welcome.

jb:asian:

If you can find the "secret location." You probably forgot. You might be surprised who you run into. Quite a few have been "sneeking in."

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth
OK, here's what I'm looking at as a slap check. Maybe I don't have the exact concept either of you two (rainman and doc) have. Circles of proctection; the movement of the left hand moving from the chin and checking the attacker's right arm down. From this position my right hand strikes the groin and the left loads up shoulder height to bounce off of and to strike the opponent's face. This is what "I" would call a rebounding check. Are we kind of on the same lines? This is just the first example that came to mind.

I was wondering if Doc or Rainman were going to answer my question up here. Rainman you know I definately value your opinion when it comes to kenpo. Doc, I value your experience and knowledge as well. When either of you talked about the principles here it went over my head. I'm sorry for that but it did. I don't know if others felt the same way but I for one wondered what you guys meant.