Sine-wave

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Ty K. Doe

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Could you explain the theory power? I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by theory of power. Is it a significant amount of power that generated?

I've heard people talk about chi/ki, breathing techniques, sine-wave, and I'm sure there are other techniques. People talk about having the force to nock over a bull, and such and such. Is there really a secret formula for all this extra power? I'm sorry but I don't think I'm convinced. I don't think there is this mystical force that gives a person extra power. I'm sure it has alot to do with a lot of hard work and practice. People have been breaking boards for years without special techniques.
 
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kickerfour

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Originally posted by Ty K. Doe

Could you explain the theory power? I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by theory of power. Is it a significant amount of power that generated?



There is nothing really mystical about General Choi's theory of power. The six parts are:

Reaction force -- the retraction after a technique is done is as important as the "sending out" of the technique.

Concentration -- the force of the technique must be concentrated into the tool with which the technique is done. i.e. the first two nuckles of the hand when a punch is done.

Breath control -- proper breathing when executing a technique. i.e. breathing out at the moment of impact during a punch.

Equilipbrium -- balance

Speed and mass -- these two are connected. We can't really change our mass but we can increase our speed causing a technique to have more power.

since wave is only one small part of the theory of power. This is just a short explanation. The encylopedia goes into much more detail.
 
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WaterCircleHarmony

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Is it dangerous to be bouncing up or down whilst doing sine?

Does the head have to stay at the same level i mean?

Curious.
 
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kickerfour

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Originally posted by WaterCircleHarmony

Is it dangerous to be bouncing up or down whilst doing sine?

Does the head have to stay at the same level i mean?

Curious.

The head should move up and down less then 1". Sine wave is not a huge up and down motion.

The best way to understand it is to find an instructor that understands sine wave and have them demonstrate.
 
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gargo

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It seems to me that the introduction of signs has the academic benefit of helping students pay attention to their stances more carefully. However, it does sound like it's counter-production in a practical standpoint for all the reasons stated earlier in this thread.

  1. Straight line is the shortest path between two points -- any deviation from a straight line (e.g. bouncing) will slow the technique and reduce power
  2. Telegraphing - extra vertical motion will alert your opponent of your upcoming move
  3. Balance - we're taught to slide in and out and maintain balance on our rear leg to avoid sweeps and be ready for quick deployment of kicks and defensive meneuvers. With this "sine wave" it seems balance will shift frequently off the back leg
    [/list=1]

    It's always good to learn different techniques (e.g. "sine wave")... even if only to recognize even more what not to do.

    Cheers.;)
 
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kickerfour

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Originally posted by gargo

It seems to me that the introduction of signs has the academic benefit of helping students pay attention to their stances more carefully. However, it does sound like it's counter-production in a practical standpoint for all the reasons stated earlier in this thread.

  1. Straight line is the shortest path between two points -- any deviation from a straight line (e.g. bouncing) will slow the technique and reduce power
  2. Telegraphing - extra vertical motion will alert your opponent of your upcoming move
  3. Balance - we're taught to slide in and out and maintain balance on our rear leg to avoid sweeps and be ready for quick deployment of kicks and defensive meneuvers. With this "sine wave" it seems balance will shift frequently off the back leg
    [/list=1]

    It's always good to learn different techniques (e.g. "sine wave")... even if only to recognize even more what not to do.

    Cheers.;)


  1. I don't want to appear argumentative. However, I think there are a couple of things missing here.

    1. A straight line is the shortest distance between two points. Sine wave does not change this.
    2. The updown motion is done with all techniques. There is no more telegraphing with sine wave than with the other body motion.
    3. Balance does not change with sine wave. You are not shifting from leg to leg.

    Sine wave has been demonstrated to produce more power which means that the technique is done faster. In the hands of a well trained martial artist, sine wave adds greatly to their ability to attack and defend.

    Sine wave is a difficult concept to verbalize.
 

Klondike93

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Originally posted by kickerfour



I don't want to appear argumentative. However, I think there are a couple of things missing here.

1. A straight line is the shortest distance between two points. Sine wave does not change this.
2. The updown motion is done with all techniques. There is no more telegraphing with sine wave than with the other body motion.
3. Balance does not change with sine wave. You are not shifting from leg to leg.

Sine wave has been demonstrated to produce more power which means that the technique is done faster. In the hands of a well trained martial artist, sine wave adds greatly to their ability to attack and defend.

Sine wave is a difficult concept to verbalize.

But, your bobbing up and down like a cork in the ocean. I was there when the General first introduced it to the USTF. I didn't care for the up and down motion, to me it makes a form look jerky.




:asian:
 
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kickerfour

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Originally posted by Klondike93



But, your bobbing up and down like a cork in the ocean. I was there when the General first introduced it to the USTF. I didn't care for the up and down motion, to me it makes a form look jerky.




:asian:

I suspect that you were there for the old "spring style" form of sine wave. This had a bunch of knee action and larger up down motion than we do now.
 

Klondike93

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I suspect that you were there for the old "spring style" form of sine wave

Probably, it was 1986 I think when they first started teaching it to us. But after seeing a video of it, it doesn't look like it's changed any.


:asian:
 
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kickerfour

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Originally posted by Klondike93



Probably, it was 1986 I think when they first started teaching it to us. But after seeing a video of it, it doesn't look like it's changed any.


:asian:

Depends on the video.
 

Klondike93

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Look for the video section

This is the web site I was directed to for a look at sine-wave.

I looked at chon-ji up to kwan-gae and the guy looks like he's bouncing to me. :shrug:

Explain the need of this to me so I can better understand what it is sine-wave is meant to do. Thanks.

:asian:
 
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kickerfour

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Originally posted by Klondike93

Look for the video section

This is the web site I was directed to for a look at sine-wave.

I looked at chon-ji up to kwan-gae and the guy looks like he's bouncing to me. :shrug:

Explain the need of this to me so I can better understand what it is sine-wave is meant to do. Thanks.

:asian:

Try this web site. http://users.ev1.net/~D.McHenry/forms/

However, patterns shown via internet never look as clean as those shown via video tape or live. Your best bet is to find someone near you who can give you a good demonstration or buy the video set from comdo.com.

Sine wave is one small part of the Theory of Power which takes 16 pages in Gen. Choi's encyclopedia.

Sorry I can't be clearer.
 

Klondike93

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I have been really tempted to get the Encylopedia set he put out, but having moved into kenpo I spend far too much money on it.

I do have his book Tae Kwon Do though, and still thumb through it from time to time.

Thanks


:asian:
 
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sweeper

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uhm.. I know nothing about TKD but I was wondering through the forum and saw a thred titled "sign wave" and my curiosity kicked in.

Since I don't know anything about it I have the question, How does it generate power? I looked at the videos and it looks like on most techniques you are comming down on impact. Is this correct? If so are you creating additional force by shifting your CG down?
 

Marginal

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I'm a mere 8th gup, but I don't have a problem with doing sine wave. (Only really figured out how to get it into punching etc two weeks ago or so.) Makes a very impressive sound at the very least. Main reason it helps generate power in my mind is that it is a fairly natural feeling movement, which makes you relax reflexively. A relaxed arm (prior to the impact) generates more speed and thus, more power. Also the sliding downwards tends to help you get more hip torque into play, resulting in improved reaction force.

I don't see it used in sparring really, but then, I don't see defined blocking, chambered punches, long stances etc in sparring either. Best toss 'em. ;)
 

RTKDCMB

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Sine wave has been demonstrated to produce more power which means that the technique is done faster. In the hands of a well trained martial artist, sine wave adds greatly to their ability to attack and defend.

If you are referring to the article 'Power Generated By Taekwon-Do Techniques By Use Of The Sinewave' at
http://www.raynerslanetkd.com/ARTICLES_Patterns_Sinewave.html

It proves nothing, they only used 2 subjects, both of which are ITF who use the sinewave all the time, so naturally they will be better with it than they are without it. Simple physics tells you that the up and down motion does not contribute to the power of a horizontal strike. The real power for a strike comes from twisting the hips not bobbing up and down..
 

Tez3

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Is 11 years a record for a resurrected thread?
 

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