New anti Sine Wave pattern deliveries on Youtube

Earl Weiss

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
3,092
Reaction score
579
Do you think I was under the impression that my own thread was 4-5 years old?

I am paraphrasing what he said in a different forum. The exact quote isn't critical.

Sir, the exact wording may in fact be critical.
 
OP
A

Acronym

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
41
Not sure exactly what you refer to. If you are comparing the black background video to how patterns are performed in the last few years at World Championships, with more recent and more current performances having a more pronounced / exaggerated up and down motion, then we are in agreement. This has been addressed by others in different forums and there have been some comparisons but that was a couple of years ago that I came across it. If that is your point - we are in agreement. The motion has become more exaggerated.

Aren't you a former ITF judge?
 

gpseymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
25,982
Reaction score
7,656
Location
Hendersonville, NC
Do you think I was under the impression that my own thread was 4-5 years old?

I am paraphrasing what he said in a different forum. The exact quote isn't critical.
Ah, but it may be. Context and wording matters.
 

Earl Weiss

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
3,092
Reaction score
579
Aren't you a former ITF judge?
I am credentialed as a "Class A" umpire and have judged world Championships in St. Petersburg Russia, -19967, Rimini Italy 2001, and a world cup in Orlando - I think it was 2002.
 
OP
A

Acronym

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
41
I am credentialed as a "Class A" umpire and have judged world Championships in St. Petersburg Russia, -19967, Rimini Italy 2001, and a world cup in Orlando - I think it was 2002.

And North Korea is yet to lose team championships in forms or has this finally happened?
 

Earl Weiss

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
3,092
Reaction score
579
And North Korea is yet to lose team championships in forms or has this finally happened?
I have no idea since I have been out of the loop since 2004 or so. Further, what if anything that might have to do with mistakes on a video eludes me. Also, since 2002 NK has been in it's own ITF that tends to skew things.
 

Earl Weiss

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
3,092
Reaction score
579
WOW! That's quite some insinuation.
Well, they one quite often. For those of us old enough to remember the Olympics when East Germany and other socialist countries dominated it's tough for amateurs to compete with Government sponsored systems where people are recruited by the 10s of thousands and their full time job is to train. Then from those 10s of thousands you get the couple dozen elite athletes. I recall a referee meeting before the 1997 Championships where a 4th Dan from NK was used as an example and he did patterns which were critiqued by the Seniors and I am thinking "Heck, looked pretty damn good to me." He went on to win the gold. Another NK athlete took the Gold for the Turning (roundhouse) Kick set at 9'7". They bordered on the superhuman. But then again that is what helped General Choi spread TKD in the 1950's and 1960's . He recruited top talent nicknamed the Korean Supermen and they went on demo tours.
 
OP
A

Acronym

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
41
Well, they one quite often. For those of us old enough to remember the Olympics when East Germany and other socialist countries dominated it's tough for amateurs to compete with Government sponsored systems where people are recruited by the 10s of thousands and their full time job is to train. Then from those 10s of thousands you get the couple dozen elite athletes. I recall a referee meeting before the 1997 Championships where a 4th Dan from NK was used as an example and he did patterns which were critiqued by the Seniors and I am thinking "Heck, looked pretty damn good to me." He went on to win the gold. Another NK athlete took the Gold for the Turning (roundhouse) Kick set at 9'7". They bordered on the superhuman. But then again that is what helped General Choi spread TKD in the 1950's and 1960's . He recruited top talent nicknamed the Korean Supermen and they went on demo tours.

Ehm... General Chois demo team in the 50-70s consisted of South Koreans...
 
OP
A

Acronym

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
41
Now this is fascinating. North Korea vs Japan.

Though both use SW, what I find striking is that Japan still punches more Shotokan esque, even though ITF TaeKwonDo is well established in Japan since several decades back.


 
OP
A

Acronym

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
41
Well, they one quite often.

Not "often". When you retired in 2004 from ITF judging, they were undefeaten in forms since they first entered in the 80s. That's why I was curious if this streak has ever ended.

However, Russia is actually beating them in free sparring these days at the World Championships.
 

Earl Weiss

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
3,092
Reaction score
579
Ehm... General Chois demo team in the 50-70s consisted of South Koreans...
Sir, - Again - comprehension issues. When a government funded program allows recruitment of thousands or 10's of thousands of top notch athletes and full time training, the ability to develop "Super Humans" is much easier than when you have self funded part time athletes who may choose a certain activity. Same idea.
 

Earl Weiss

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
3,092
Reaction score
579
Not "often". When you retired in 2004 from ITF judging, they were undefeaten in forms since they first entered in the 80s. That's why I was curious if this streak has ever ended.

However, Russia is actually beating them in free sparring these days at the World Championships.

Sir, are you no changing some comparison, however irrelevant from Pattern to Sparring competition?

Not just these days. I know the Russians won team sparring in 1997, (I know because I was there. ) There may have been other team sparring winners as well. No point in checking on it. and NK individual competitors did not always take the gold in sparring. So what is your point in highlighting the NK athletes success? Is it that somehow they would produce a flawless video?
 
OP
A

Acronym

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
41
Sir, are you no changing some comparison, however irrelevant from Pattern to Sparring competition?

Not just these days. I know the Russians won team sparring in 1997, (I know because I was there. ) There may have been other team sparring winners as well. No point in checking on it. and NK individual competitors did not always take the gold in sparring. So what is your point in highlighting the NK athletes success? Is it that somehow they would produce a flawless video?

I was refering team competitons in both forms and sparring.

In individual sparring, Thomaz Barada beat them all the time.
 

Earl Weiss

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
3,092
Reaction score
579
I was refering team competitons in both forms and sparring.

.
Post # 652 you state " Not "often"

. "When you retired in 2004 from ITF judging, they were undefeated in forms since they first entered in the 80s"

So are you now claiming undefeated in "TEAM" forms and sparring or just forms?

Of course you know why "... they first entered in the 1980's"

I still have no idea what this has to do with the discussion.
 
OP
A

Acronym

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
41
Post # 652 you state " Not "often"

. "When you retired in 2004 from ITF judging, they were undefeated in forms since they first entered in the 80s"

So are you now claiming undefeated in "TEAM" forms and sparring or just forms?

Of course you know why "... they first entered in the 1980's"

I still have no idea what this has to do with the discussion.

Team forms only. I asked question, no need do get defensive about it. I thought you were a judge every event and could give some insight on the evolution of judging
 

Earl Weiss

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
3,092
Reaction score
579
Team forms only. I asked question, no need do get defensive about it. I thought you were a judge every event and could give some insight on the evolution of judging

Events I judge included:

Specialty breaking, Individual Patterns, Team Patterns and individual sparring. It's been a long time but I don't recall for certain if I judged team sparring. Pretty certain I did not ever get assigned to power breaking.

Judging has changed a lot. from simple stuff to like having each judge keep track of warnings and minus points to having score table do it, from scoring patterns in several categories to head to head patterns and just designating winner to I believe some sort of electronic scoring now for sparring. (We used pencil and paper. )
 
OP
A

Acronym

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
41
Events I judge included:

Specialty breaking, Individual Patterns, Team Patterns and individual sparring. It's been a long time but I don't recall for certain if I judged team sparring. Pretty certain I did not ever get assigned to power breaking.

Judging has changed a lot. from simple stuff to like having each judge keep track of warnings and minus points to having score table do it, from scoring patterns in several categories to head to head patterns and just designating winner to I believe some sort of electronic scoring now for sparring. (We used pencil and paper. )

How do you decide between two competitors doing form with neither of them making any mistakes, and deliveries being very similar? Did you guys have an additional citeria that settled it? Like some small detail?
 

Earl Weiss

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
3,092
Reaction score
579
How do you decide between two competitors doing form with neither of them making any mistakes, and deliveries being very similar? Did you guys have an additional citeria that settled it? Like some small detail?

Knowing I had some top notch competitors with few flaws I noted where they started their pattern and if there were no other deciding factors the one closes to their startingg point would win. They were seldom "equal" in this factor. I cannot speak for others.
 
Top