Simultaineous hand and foot techniques in kata...

[Makalakumu]

In many karate kata, people perform simultaineous hand and foot techniques. Several of the pinan katas, chinto, rohai, etc show a kick and some variation of a hand technique coming out at the same time. Many also retract the other hand to the waist.

What are the bunkai for this move? Please pick a kata of your choice, describe the move, and describe the bunkai.

 

[JWLuiza]

In many karate kata, people perform simultaineous hand and foot techniques. Several of the pinan katas, chinto, rohai, etc show a kick and some variation of a hand technique coming out at the same time. Many also retract the other hand to the waist.

What are the bunkai for this move? Please pick a kata of your choice, describe the move, and describe the bunkai.

I know many of the Sidekick/Backfist techniques used to be front snap kicks. So, much like illustrated by Iain Abernethy's interpretations, I tend to view the sequences in Pinan 2 and 4 as a Knee Collapse, with the hikite hand pulling back on an arm, the backfist hitting the head of the opponent after the knee collapse.

 

[Makalakumu]

That is one way I've seen the techniques also. Another interpretation is that you are grappling with an opponent and disengaging in order to throw a kick, yet you are maintaining contact with the grab for a follow up technique. There is a sequence in pinan yondan that shows exactly this.

 

[Jin Gang]

I think this is the one you're talking about

Kusanku (also in pinan yondan): beginning from a natural stance with one arm in chamber and the other across the body with fist stacked on top of the chamber, perform a straight forearm/hammer fist strike at the same time a front snap kick, followed by a shuffle forward and elbow strike with the chambered arm.
The beginning position can represent an arm grab, yanking the wrist and pressing their elbow with yours, or at least opening their guard up with a pull. Then forearm towards the neck or fist to the face, the purpose not so much to do a lot of damage but to at least to distract them from the kick, which takes the knee or thigh to collapse their stance, or groin/abdomen to double them over at least, followed by grabbing the back of the head and shooting in with the elbow smash.

There is a similar forearm strike/kick in chinto, instead followed by a takedown/dropping to one knee. In this case, the target of the kick is even more important, you're definately taking the knee/inside of the leg to collapse them.

A slightly different one is also in Kusanku (as well as pinan shodan), the "chest block" and same side front snap kick. I use ot pretty much the same way, as a distraction to deliver the kick and get in close for a throw (it is followed in kusanku and pinan by a 180 turn and shuto uke in nekoashidachi, which could worked into a hip bump). Of course, it could also be simultaneous attack and defense, deflecting a punch and kicking. That's the "simple" explanation.

I find these also in the two praying mantis forms I know, with an inside snap kick and finger strike to towards the eyes simultaneously. Try it in sparring, it works all the time *lol*. You'll almost always get that kick in when they are distracted by the strike toward the face
The overall concept is masking your true attack with a feint. Sometimes you mix up the timing, maybe shooting the hand out just a little before you start the kick, or vice versa, depending on which one you want to land and how you're going to follow up. Of course, it's a bonus if both attacks land, if you've got them in a position where they can't defend at all.

 

[Jin Gang]

No one else wants to describe any bunkai? There must be a few more people can talk about. Are they "closed door" secrets? Or maybe just locked in that closet that no one has a key for? *lol*

 

[Errant108]

How about combining this thread with the same topic in the TKD forum "Kicking with a punch"...

 

[Makalakumu]

How about combining this thread with the same topic in the TKD forum "Kicking with a punch"...

My plan was to get a number of posts here showing real application and then post the link there. I got sick or reading posts that said the hand was doing nothing.

One of my favorite kata where this particular kind of technique is found is chinto. In one sequence, the grasping hand has gotten a grasp on the opponents arm or sleeve. The hand technique is striking and driving the person down. I see the crescent kick as sweeping over the arm and setting up and armbar. Kind of like this...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...=33&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

 

[DavidCC]

I had a couple of hours with an Isshin Ryu teacher this last weekend, and at one point he did a technique out of Naihanchi where the heel of one foot is brought up and hooks/kicks down towards your other knee while the hands do something that looks like a block. Sorry, I don't know that form and he only showed it twice.

But the point is, he had tied up the hands of the attacker with a joint immobilization, and the heel kick is delivered to the back of their knee, taking them down to the ground, hyperextending the elbow or dislocating the shoulder (he showed one time of each application).