short stances

goingd

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I know the Kukkiwon officially has shorter stances these days - for the sake of speed if I'm not mistaken. This video is just an example of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAa2DOHC3uQ

I'm in no way criticizing the technique - I think it's very good! But I want to know how everyone feels about it? Kukkiwon people, how do you practice it?
 

msmitht

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Walking stance - 1 foot distance between feet
Front stance - 4 1/2 feet from front toe to rear heel
horse and back stance - 2 feet between heels
tiger stance - toe and heel on same line (if it was down)

when I say feet I am referring to the length of ones own foot
 
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goingd

goingd

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Walking stance - 1 foot distance between feet
Front stance - 4 1/2 feet from front toe to rear heel
horse and back stance - 2 feet between heels
tiger stance - toe and heel on same line (if it was down)

when I say feet I am referring to the length of ones own foot

I think all of your standards are the same as Kukkiwon's other than the front stance which I think they do at maybe 3 feet.
 

msmitht

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I think all of your standards are the same as Kukkiwon's other than the front stance which I think they do at maybe 3 feet.
I just attended Kukkiwon 17th instructor course That was led by the president of the KKW academy and his Senior Master Instructor of KKW academy in Korea. they showed, repeately, how to measure stances properly. There should be four and a half of your foot length from the front foot toe's to the rear foot's heel with 1-2 fist's width. Master Park from KKW academy showed the same thing at 2 previous seminars I attended in the past 2 years.
 
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goingd

goingd

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I just attended Kukkiwon 17th instructor course That was led by the president of the KKW academy and his Senior Master Instructor of KKW academy in Korea. they showed, repeately, how to measure stances properly. There should be four and a half of your foot length from the front foot toe's to the rear foot's heel with 1-2 fist's width. Master Park from KKW academy showed the same thing at 2 previous seminars I attended in the past 2 years.

Really! That's interesting, because that would require one to double the length of their stance when transitioning from a back stance to a front stance, which is not what I see the Kukkiwon masters doing in their poomse videos. But thank you for the information.
 

NPTKD

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Really! That's interesting, because that would require one to double the length of their stance when transitioning from a back stance to a front stance, which is not what I see the Kukkiwon masters doing in their poomse videos. But thank you for the information.


You are correct, I went to the KKW in july and the testing in vages and the wtf poomse course for compatition and the is to difference between the length of front stance and back stance. Not to mention I took 2nd place in team trials (Shameless self plug).
 
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goingd

goingd

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You are correct, I went to the KKW in july and the testing in vages and the wtf poomse course for compatition and the is to difference between the length of front stance and back stance. Not to mention I took 2nd place in team trials (Shameless self plug).

I don't understand what you just said about stances...
 

NPTKD

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when you move from front stance to back stance, there is not difference in lenght. The back foot just pivots. like the 4 count in koryo and the 8 count in Taegeuk sah jang.
 

NPTKD

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This is the book that you need if you want to know them to current standards.
Poomsae_Buch.jpg
 

terryl965

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I just attended Kukkiwon 17th instructor course That was led by the president of the KKW academy and his Senior Master Instructor of KKW academy in Korea. they showed, repeately, how to measure stances properly. There should be four and a half of your foot length from the front foot toe's to the rear foot's heel with 1-2 fist's width. Master Park from KKW academy showed the same thing at 2 previous seminars I attended in the past 2 years.

I agree except I prefer 2.5 fist width, just a personnal preference. But everything else is exactly right.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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The Kukkiwon is setting the stances short to reflect (in my opinion) a more realistic view of the stance length that one uses when actually fighting. From that standpoint, it is actually more realistic. From the standpoint of the forms being representative of the practical use of the art, I think that it is a good thing.

As a general rule, short stances are more natural and quicker. Long stances are more stable and build leg strength. They look better too, in my opinion, when performing a poomsae. When I am personally practicing, just practicing, mind you, I make my stances as long as possible. When executing the form in either a test or with the class, I tend to shorten them. I usually use more of my feet than the Kukkiwon recommends due to the length of my legs. If I do not, my stances do not look as distinct. For the particularly long legged, I feel that a slightly longer stance is in order when performing poomsae.

Daniel
 

MSUTKD

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when you move from front stance to back stance, there is not difference in lenght. The back foot just pivots. like the 4 count in koryo and the 8 count in Taegeuk sah jang.

Tim,

When you move from Dwi Koobi to front stance there IS a difference in length. The front foot moves forward.

Dwi Koobi is two foot lengths
Ahp Koobi is 3.5 from toe to heel (4.5 from heel to heel)

Look at the book you mentioned and you will see.

The transition from Dwi koobi to Ahp koobi is one of the most important.
 

TX_BB

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Master Southwick,

Can you explain the beginning 8 movements of Keum Gang and how the distance is maintained?
 

terryl965

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TX BB since you are at my school let me chime in here.

1. "GA" direction, left foot put forth,wen apkubi, anpamok momtong hecho makki.

2. "GA" direction right foot put forth,oreun apkubi, oreun batangson teok-chigi.

3."GA" direction left foot put forth, wen apkubi, wen batangson teok-chigi.

4. "GA" direction right foot put forth, oreun apkubi, oreun batangson teok -chigi.

5. "GA" direction right foot retrieved backward, oreun dwitkubi hansonnal-makki.

6. "GA" direction left foot retrieved backward, wen dwitkubi, hansonnal momtong - makki.

7. "GA" direction right foot retrieved backward, oreun dwitkubi, hansonnal momtong - makki.

8. "DA" direction right foot remaining at "NA" position, left foot pulled bending the knee, oreun hakdari-seogi, kuemgang makki.

*This action must be conducted slowly with concentration of the body strength ( for about a ten second count).

I know sometimes I have my way of doing things but poomsae are done at my school the way the Kukkiwon Tae Kwon Do textbook says, so if you just follow it everything is great and perfect. One problem is alot of folks want to palm strike to the chest instead of the facial area and then they want to rush step eight and have the upper lag lay against the standing leg which is wrong or atleast in my way of thinking.
 

NPTKD

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Tim,

When you move from Dwi Koobi to front stance there IS a difference in length. The front foot moves forward.

Dwi Koobi is two foot lengths
Ahp Koobi is 3.5 from toe to heel (4.5 from heel to heel)

Look at the book you mentioned and you will see.

The transition from Dwi koobi to Ahp koobi is one of the most important.


Ron,

Please understand that Kukkiwon and WTF Standards are different. I ran into this problem when taking both the Kukkiwon course and the USAT poomsae referee course with Scott and his mom. When I was at Kukkiwon for the course it was told to me and shown as I mentioned. I understand that the book is different. Just like the two sets of DVD ( Kukkiwon & WTF) differ.
 

ATC

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I know the Kukkiwon officially has shorter stances these days..
KKW has never changed its stances. People just have not been doing them as KKW has set them from its begining.
 

NPTKD

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when you move from front stance to back stance, there is not difference in lenght. The back foot just pivots. like the 4 count in koryo and the 8 count in Taegeuk sah jang.
Sorry about that I meant Sam not Sah!
 

MSUTKD

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Ron,

Please understand that Kukkiwon and WTF Standards are different. I ran into this problem when taking both the Kukkiwon course and the USAT poomsae referee course with Scott and his mom. When I was at Kukkiwon for the course it was told to me and shown as I mentioned. I understand that the book is different. Just like the two sets of DVD ( Kukkiwon & WTF) differ.


Jae-Yoon Ahn (Kukkiwon) showed a step forward. You have to, dwi koobi is 2 foot lengths ahp koobi is 3.5 (tow to heel) that is a length difference. Both WTF and Kukkiwon agree on this issue, trust me.
 

NPTKD

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Jae-Yoon Ahn (Kukkiwon) showed a step forward. You have to, dwi koobi is 2 foot lengths ahp koobi is 3.5 (tow to heel) that is a length difference. Both WTF and Kukkiwon agree on this issue, trust me.

Ron,

I am just telling you that I have learned it both ways. When I mentioned it to Scott I was told you were should KKW not WTF. I was shown one way in vegas by Master Park, then a different way from Scott and the a same way again at KKW agian by master Park. I have done it both ways in compatition and matter of fact in team trials that is the way I did it in Jitae. Other little things like pushing hands ready stance, the book states something like the width of a volleyball or something along those lines. Then in vegas M Parks stated something along the lines of " we are not going by the guide lines that others have stated things line the measurement of a volleyball width." I was not the only both in Vegas and at the USAT seminar who heard the same things.
 
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NPTKD

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You know the real problem is no one but a small few are going by these standards anyway. I took some of my students to a tournament that was run by most of the my state USAT guys. Must all of them were doing things totally different. Some of them were even at the seminars with me, but never passed the information on to there students. I even got into it with a Korean GM about poomsae changes. oh well, your right! I give in.
 
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