Self defense against people who don't wear masks...

Status
Not open for further replies.

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,494
Location
Manchester UK
Science is always wrong, it just gets less wrong the more we learn.
no not really, science, by that i mean the method of apply science is correct, scientist however are very nearly always wrong, in the conclusion they reach using the scientific method, or at least the hypothesis they developed to apply the method to is invariably wrong

sometimes thats not the biggest problem fail experiments are some times the biggest leap forward that science makes. as we then know that something we( they) believed to be true isnt

but on a variation of Heisenberg's uncertainty principal, the more we learn about one specific piece of a science the less we can be certain that everything else we thought we knew was true, is so

so we know vast amount more than we did even 50 years ago, but have less certainty that any of that is true, at least in the whole, it may turn out to be partly correct
 
Last edited:

Buka

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
11,226
Reaction score
7,536
Location
Maui
ScienceBitch.jpg
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
17,523
Reaction score
4,410
Location
Pueblo West, CO
I was more referring to dust mask that people have been using. Those things are uncomfortable.

Not sure exactly what you're talking about. I have a dust mask that I wear when I'm grinding or sanding in the shop, and it's not terrible. I don't think it's as bad as wearing an N95 for 12 hours, to be honest. This isn't exact, but it's this sort.

3m-5301-organic-vapor-disposable-half-mask-respirator-medium.jpg


Is that what you're thinking of?
 

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
20,378
Reaction score
5,318
Not sure exactly what you're talking about. I have a dust mask that I wear when I'm grinding or sanding in the shop, and it's not terrible. I don't think it's as bad as wearing an N95 for 12 hours, to be honest. This isn't exact, but it's this sort.

3m-5301-organic-vapor-disposable-half-mask-respirator-medium.jpg


Is that what you're thinking of?

That is what I bought also. I was thinking buy once cry once.

Then I don't have to fart around with disposables as much.
 

RTKDCMB

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
3,142
Reaction score
727
Location
Perth, Western Australia
Not sure exactly what you're talking about. I have a dust mask that I wear when I'm grinding or sanding in the shop, and it's not terrible. I don't think it's as bad as wearing an N95 for 12 hours, to be honest. This isn't exact, but it's this sort.

3m-5301-organic-vapor-disposable-half-mask-respirator-medium.jpg


Is that what you're thinking of?
Those ones tend to feel heavy and get full of moisture after a while but are still more comfortable that the disposable ones.
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
17,523
Reaction score
4,410
Location
Pueblo West, CO
Those ones tend to feel heavy and get full of moisture after a while but are still more comfortable that the disposable ones.

As I said, it's that-ish, not that exact one. I've worn mine for 5-6 hours at a time, when I've been doing a lot of grinding without any real problem. It doesn't really seem all that heavy, but that may just be because I've worn some others that were full face with hearing protection that weighed roughly 14 tons.
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,494
Location
Manchester UK
Not sure exactly what you're talking about. I have a dust mask that I wear when I'm grinding or sanding in the shop, and it's not terrible. I don't think it's as bad as wearing an N95 for 12 hours, to be honest. This isn't exact, but it's this sort.

3m-5301-organic-vapor-disposable-half-mask-respirator-medium.jpg


Is that what you're thinking of?
those commonly dont have a filter on the exhaust, rather a one way valve is incorporated, at least the ones here do
 
Last edited:

dvcochran

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Messages
6,216
Reaction score
1,852
Location
Southeast U.S.
Not sure exactly what you're talking about. I have a dust mask that I wear when I'm grinding or sanding in the shop, and it's not terrible. I don't think it's as bad as wearing an N95 for 12 hours, to be honest. This isn't exact, but it's this sort.

3m-5301-organic-vapor-disposable-half-mask-respirator-medium.jpg


Is that what you're thinking of?
We call those respirators. The filters are replaceable and can be sized for particulate penetration and certain gases. They can make it harder to take a breath in. Similar to the mask some athletes use when training in that respect.
They get heavy after a while to me. We have to go into certain confined space areas where they are required. Sitting in a cramped space wearing one and programming for several hours is an automatic headache for me.
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,494
Location
Manchester UK
We call those respirators. The filters are replaceable and can be sized for particulate penetration and certain gases. They can make it harder to take a breath in. Similar to the mask some athletes use when training in that respect.
They get heavy after a while to me. We have to go into certain confined space areas where they are required. Sitting in a cramped space wearing one and programming for several hours is an automatic headache for me.
you wouldnt be wearing one of them in a confined space on one of my jobs, they are good for particulates, but not at all for solvents, gases or lack of oxygen, i suppose it depends on which confined space it is, but if its just particulates id make you wear them where ever you were working

they are not at all, like an oxygen deprivation training mask, if your finding it hard to breath you need to change the hi flow filter as it probably clogged with particulates
 

Oni_Kadaki

Green Belt
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Messages
178
Reaction score
107
no not really, science, by that i mean the method of apply science is correct, scientist however are very nearly always wrong, in the conclusion they reach using the scientific method, or at least the hypothesis they developed to apply the method to is invariably wrong

sometimes thats not the biggest problem fail experiments are some times the biggest leap forward that science makes. as we then know that something we( they) believed to be true isnt

but on a variation of Heisenberg's uncertainty principal, the more we learn about one specific piece of a science the less we can be certain that everything else we thought we knew was true, is so

so we know vast amount more than we did even 50 years ago, but have less certainty that any of that is true, at least in the whole, it may turn out to be partly correct

Reminds me of Thomas Kuhn's Structure of Scientific Revolutions, which basically says that science is cyclical, with a given theory not necessarily being totally better than another. Instead, he suggests that one theory may only address one particular phenomenon or social concern better than another.
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,494
Location
Manchester UK
Reminds me of Thomas Kuhn's Structure of Scientific Revolutions, which basically says that science is cyclical, with a given theory not necessarily being totally better than another. Instead, he suggests that one theory may only address one particular phenomenon or social concern better than another.
back in the mid 60s when i was 7, i pointed out to my teacher that Africa and south america looked like they had once been joined, i was told that both that suggestion and i was stupid, i was far from convinced by this

5 years later i watch a documentary on the emerging though still very controversial topic of plate tectonics.

its seems even very learned scientist had similarly been told they were stupid over the decades for suggesting much the same

when your being out thought by a 7 year old, you need to wonder about scientific consensus and what is is worth
 

angelariz

Orange Belt
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
87
Reaction score
17
Location
CT
Just curious. What are you guys doing to keep yourself safe in these times?
Same thing I've always done. Eat well, exercise, Not wearing masks. And living. There are a million other things that will kill you before a virus with a 99.7% survival rate.
 

geezer

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
6,726
Reaction score
2,691
Location
Phoenix, AZ
back in the mid 60s when i was 7, i pointed out to my teacher that Africa and south america looked like they had once been joined, i was told that both that suggestion and i was stupid, i was far from convinced by this
5 years later i watch a documentary on the emerging though still very controversial topic of plate tectonics.
its seems even very learned scientist had similarly been told they were stupid over the decades for suggesting much the same
when your being out thought by a 7 year old, you need to wonder about scientific consensus and what is is worth

Jobo- I'm glad you posted this. You and I are of a similar age, and I had exactly the same experience. A fourth or fifth grade teacher in the mid-60s also dismissed my childish observations about the way the continents look like they'd fit together like puzzle pieces.

Flash-forward to my final year at a prep school in a different state in the early 70s. I took an elective class in geology taught by a bright young geologist fresh from finishing his graduate work. I just found a stack of old papers from that class in a box in the garage. He had us doing some pretty in-depth studies of plate tectonics, continental drift, vulcanism, faulting, all kinds of cool stuff.

I also learned that continental drift theory not new, even back then. Alfred Wegener proposed the idea back in 1912. But it wasn't until the 50s and 60s when the mechanisms of sea-floor spreading, the role of subduction zones and so forth became better understood that the idea gained traction.

So you and I must be among millions of curious kids of that era that got pooh-poohed by close-minded teachers because we had our eyes open to the obvious. Actually, it was kinda good preparation for life as a grown up. More than half the people I've had to work for in my adult life could be as benighted, close minded and dismissive as that first grade-school teacher. With great effort, I've learned to just shut up and take my paycheck. Some of the time. ;)
 

Oily Dragon

Blue Belt
Joined
May 2, 2020
Messages
220
Reaction score
21
Same thing I've always done. Eat well, exercise, Not wearing masks. And living. There are a million other things that will kill you before a virus with a 99.7% survival rate.

That's not the survival rate of COVID19. Not even close. Mortality Analyses

Not to mention every single person who gets it and is asymptomatic (a majority) can potentially kill an untold number of people.

Where do you get your info from, Facebook memes?
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
8,587
Reaction score
2,675
Location
New York
Same thing I've always done. Eat well, exercise, Not wearing masks. And living. There are a million other things that will kill you before a virus with a 99.7% survival rate.
If you read the title/purpose of the thread, you are the one we have to defend ourselves against. Not someone worrying about self defense in this instance.
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,494
Location
Manchester UK
If you read the title/purpose of the thread, you are the one we have to defend ourselves against. Not someone worrying about self defense in this instance.
i had a fallout over masks yesterday, masks are required on the bus, unless your disabled or have breathing problems which is its self a disability.

so as i tried to get on, the driver said, no mask no journey,, i told him i was disabled, but he was not having it and throws me off.

i did warn him that i would report him

so today i rang to complain.

the guy on the phone told me, what their policy was and the driver was right

but thats not what your policy says, i replied, as id just read it and he clearly had not

some long time later we agreed i was right and he would put the guy up for a disciplinary for a flagrant breach of the equalities act and retrain the other drivers to protect the disabled from being abandon at the road side

disabled lives matter as well and i was bored this afternoon
they are sending me a dispensation card, which is nice of them, that will come in handy as they are now taking about making them a requirement in shops
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
8,587
Reaction score
2,675
Location
New York
i had a fallout over masks yesterday, masks are required on the bus, unless your disabled or have breathing problems which is its self a disability.

so as i tried to get on, the driver said, no mask no journey,, i told him i was disabled, but he was not having it and throws me off.

i did warn him that i would report him

so today i rang to complain.

the guy on the phone told me, what their policy was and the driver was right

but thats not what your policy says, i replied, as id just read it and he clearly had not

some long time later we agreed i was right and he would put the guy up for a disciplinary for a flagrant breach of the equalities act and retrain the other drivers to protect the disabled from being abandon at the road side

disabled lives matter as well and i was bored this afternoon
they are sending me a dispensation card, which is nice of them, that will come in handy as they are now taking about making them a requirement in shops
I'm not sure how that works, especially in the UK, but I'd imagine you have to have some sort of card with your disabled status listed. Otherwise everyone would just say their disabled when they don't want to wear a mask and ruin it for those who actually are.
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,494
Location
Manchester UK
I'm not sure how that works, especially in the UK, but I'd imagine you have to have some sort of card with your disabled status listed. Otherwise everyone would just say their disabled when they don't want to wear a mask and ruin it for those who actually are.
, well no, no card required by law, simply saying your disabled should get you a journey, which is what their policy says, you may , but almost certainly wont have to dispute it with the police. the cards themselves are given out with out any proof of disability being required. so any one can get one of they apply

and anyway insisting that the disabled carry cards is its self discriminatory, unless required by law, which it isnt

how will it spoil it for the disabled ? it wont make any difference to them, if lots of people claim to have breathing difficulties
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest Discussions

Top