a couple of thoughts about self-defense

[jarrod]

i saw a thread about the merits of one style versus another for self-defense (on the internet!!! who would think it??) & thought i'd type a few thoughts. i think deep down, every martial artist wants to be the guy (or girl!) in the movie who beats up a dozen bad guys after doing everything possible to avoid conflict, & saves the day/gets the girl/ avenges his or her father/whatever.

this fantasy inadvertantly leads us to debates about how we picture the scenario in our head playing out. grappling won't work because the bad guy's friends will stomp on you. striking won't work because most fights go to the ground. this won't work because it uses prearranged attacks. that worn't work because it is a sport. blah blah blah. really we're just debating whether we prefer the movie that plays in our head, or the other person's.

but the keys to self-defense are really fairly simple. be aware of your surroundings. if possible, avoid places where you don't feel safe. when you interact with people, be polite & respectful but not submissive. & above all, don't look like a target.

the last part is primarily a side-effect of having confidence. not machismo or bravado, but just a general feeling of being in decent shape & accustomed to a scrap. the knowledge that you have faced & overcome obstacles.

so really, what's the best martial art for self-defense? the one that makes you confident! it doesn't matter if you gain that confidence from your engagements in a sport matches, your precision & control responding to prearranged attacks, or whatever.

i mean a little healthy debate is all well & good. it's helps us to analyze our techniques & think on our tactics. but how many of us who practice for self-defense live somewhere crawling with knife & stick weilding muggers? if you do live someplace like that, wouldn't it be better to carry a gun?

so imho, that's the best defense. avoid dangerous places, & do whatever is necessary to feel good about yourself. everything else will fall into place.

peace,

jf

 

[KenpoTex]

so really, what's the best martial art for self-defense? the one that makes you confident! it doesn't matter if you gain that confidence from your engagements in a sport matches, your precision & control responding to prearranged attacks, or whatever.


so imho, that's the best defense. avoid dangerous places, & do whatever is necessary to feel good about yourself. everything else will fall into place.

peace,

jf

What if that "good feeling" is nothing but false confidence? There are a lot of martial artists who probably feel great about themselves and have a high level of confidence in their "abilities" but wouldn't last two seconds against a committed attacker.

 

[Twin Fist]

so very very wise

 

[dewey]

....

but the keys to self-defense are really fairly simple. be aware of your surroundings. if possible, avoid places where you don't feel safe. when you interact with people, be polite & respectful but not submissive. & above all, don't look like a target.

Exactly. 90% of good, effective self-defense is situational awareness...zanshin. Unless one is intentionally placing themselves in danger's way for whatever reason, simply being aware of your surroundings at all times and continually honing your "street smarts" keeps you safe...that and the requisite amount of common sense!

What if that "good feeling" is nothing but false confidence? There are a lot of martial artists who probably feel great about themselves and have a high level of confidence in their "abilities" but wouldn't last two seconds against a committed attacker.

That's the other 10% of good, effective self-defense...being able to physically defend yourself when it becomes necessary.

My own understanding of self-defense comes from (surpise), my own martial arts training...particularly Iaido. Like handguns, the sword as a self-defense weapon remains sheathed 99% of the time. However, in that 1% "moment"...I better know how to use it! Thus, the several hours a week I train...all to prepare myself for the instant that I "might" have to physically defend myself one day. This also directly applies to handguns.

As applied to unarmed self-defense, the same philosophy goes. Because of situational awareness, I've been able to keep myself safe thus far and have not had to physically defend myself. HOWEVER, that one time that I very well might have to...I want to be ready!

FWIW

 

[allenjp]

Exactly. 90% of good, effective self-defense is situational awareness...zanshin. Unless one is intentionally placing themselves in danger's way for whatever reason, simply being aware of your surroundings at all times and continually honing your "street smarts" keeps you safe...that and the requisite amount of common sense!



That's the other 10% of good, effective self-defense...being able to physically defend yourself when it becomes necessary.

My own understanding of self-defense comes from (surpise), my own martial arts training...particularly Iaido. Like handguns, the sword as a self-defense weapon remains sheathed 99% of the time. However, in that 1% "moment"...I better know how to use it! Thus, the several hours a week I train...all to prepare myself for the instant that I "might" have to physically defend myself one day. This also directly applies to handguns.

As applied to unarmed self-defense, the same philosophy goes. Because of situational awareness, I've been able to keep myself safe thus far and have not had to physically defend myself. HOWEVER, that one time that I very well might have to...I want to be ready!

FWIW

Do you actually carry a sword for self defense

 

[dewey]

Do you actually carry a sword for self defense

Of course not! I was just making an analogy. Although....

My other training is Aikido and Judo.

 

[Deaf Smith]

What if that "good feeling" is nothing but false confidence? There are a lot of martial artists who probably feel great about themselves and have a high level of confidence in their "abilities" but wouldn't last two seconds against a committed attacker.

I remember Jeff Cooper writing about the goal of his classes was to make the student so good that any attacker would have committed inadverdent suicide if they attacked.

Of course he was teaching the .45 automatic and the Modern Technique...

He also wrote about the confidence one gets from being in control of their environment. He said it was a confidence that cannot be faked.

Yes I do feel false confidence is bad. But understanding his 'Principles of Personal Defense' is a step in the right direction. Awareness of ones surroundings was a part of that.

Deaf

 

[hkfuie]

so imho, that's the best defense. avoid dangerous places, & do whatever is necessary to feel good about yourself. everything else will fall into place.

peace,

jf

Good.

Now what're we supposed to talk about?

 

[Guardian]

so imho, that's the best defense. avoid dangerous places, & do whatever is necessary to feel good about yourself. everything else will fall into place.

What is a dangerous place now a days? I understand what you are referring to, but there is very few safe places anymore in my view. Ok, there are some places more dangerous then others, but that line is becoming thinner by the week.

On the other account, feeling good about yourself is ok, but as someone pointed out, you better have the physical conditioning to back up that feeling good, I can feel good about myself, but be out of shape, smoke 10 packs a cigarrettes a day and drink 2 cases a beer a day and still feel good about myself, but I doubt I would last 20 seconds in a confrontation in that condition.

I did like your post though, some good thoughts in there.

 

[KenpoTex]

Yes I do feel false confidence is bad. But understanding his 'Principles of Personal Defense' is a step in the right direction. Awareness of ones surroundings was a part of that.

Deaf

I never said or implied that those thing aren't important... (and I know who the Col. is )

My disagreement with the OP is due to statements like this:

do whatever is necessary to feel good about yourself. everything else will fall into place.

IMO, that's a load of BS...
Someone that studies a system where they never make contact and never train agains a realistic level of resistance may feel perfectly confident. However, this "confidence" will only last until they actually get attacked by someone who means to do them harm. At that point, things are not going to just magically "fall into place."
I have seen students that thought they were tough **** because they could do all the fancy techniques against a cooperative partner. However, they had never been in a real fight so they didn't really have any way to gauge their performance. Furthermore, in most cases, they didn't like sparring or any type of contact drills because "it was too hard," or "too much work." Notwithstanding, they were perfectly "confident" in their "abilities."
Now does anyone think that the aforementioned type of student (outside of being extremely lucky) is going to survive against a determined, committed attacker who probably has the benefit of real experience and probably the element of surprise on their side...yeah right.

"In the fight, you will not rise to the occasion. You will not default to your training. You will default to the level of training you have MASTERED."

If all you have mastered is putting on your gi and playing patty-cake twice a week--never breaking a sweat, getting a bruise or a bloody nose, never being pushed to failure--your confidence is worthless.

 

[grydth]

Collectively, there's some good sense here...... have the sense to avoid dangerous situations, be confident in your ability and have some street effective techniques you've trained in..... its about the best you can do.

I had a teacher who stressed the best defense was avoidance..... when one student asked what he'd do in a particular situation, he replied," Die. Your chance of survival was in reacting earlier."

 

[jarrod]

thanks all for the feedback, there are some interesting thoughts from all.

What if that "good feeling" is nothing but false confidence? There are a lot of martial artists who probably feel great about themselves and have a high level of confidence in their "abilities" but wouldn't last two seconds against a committed attacker.

there is a difference between confidence & false confidence. false confidence hides behind bravado & macho BS energy. real confidence is much quieter.

false confidence is wrapped up in the ego. real confidence is connected to real self-esteem. the self-esteem movement that as swept our educational system is about ego inflation, not real self-esteem. how often do you hear about a football player getting mugged? he may or may not know how to fight, but athletes in general are in good shape & have lots of real confidence. so long as they are not fall-down drunk or stupid they rarely run into trouble.

i do remember a pro-baller who was recently shot during a home robbery. if i remember right, he knew the perps. maybe it could have been avoided by being more selective about who he hung around with, or taking more measures for home security. at any rate, they had guns. i don't think any amount of MA training would have helped.

Good.

Now what're we supposed to talk about?

now we go back to talking about our head-movies. i get to throw bad guys through plate glass windows while you kick them all in the head, preferably with something spinning or arial!

so imho, that's the best defense. avoid dangerous places, & do whatever is necessary to feel good about yourself. everything else will fall into place.

What is a dangerous place now a days? I understand what you are referring to, but there is very few safe places anymore in my view. Ok, there are some places more dangerous then others, but that line is becoming thinner by the week.

no place is absolutely safe, of course. i live in a fairly high crime area. but for the most part, that crime is petty theft & alcohol related violence (domestic disputes, bar fights, etc.) so as long as i don't go out drinking & lock my doors, i feel pretty safe.



now as for falling apart in front of a commited attacker...what exactly is a commited attacker? someone who wants your money? someone who wants you dead? if that's the case, they're not interested in fighting & testing out your martial arts skills. it's a bullet in the head, a baseball bat from behind, or worse. i'm not saying training won't help at all in these situations. but i think people far over-estimate it's value.

let's say two bad guys with knives & bats want your money. give it to them!

let's say your sister's abusive ex wants you dead. is gonna fight you or shoot you in the back if he gets the chance? don't give him the chance. keep a gun at home or with you if it's legal. be aware of your whereabouts & his.

let's say some sort of professional criminal is out to make some money. is he going to target the person who looks fit, walks with their head up, & pays atttention to what's going on? he doesn't get points for someone being a hard target. he's going to look for the person with their head down, talking on the cell, scanning the newspaper, etc.


jf

 

[KenpoTex]

there is a difference between confidence & false confidence. false confidence hides behind bravado & macho BS energy. real confidence is much quieter.

false confidence is wrapped up in the ego. real confidence is connected to real self-esteem. ...

I think you're overanalyzing a little...to me "false confidence" is when someone thinks they know what they're doing and believing in what they're doing when they really have no clue. (possibly because the instructor has no clue what he/she should really be teaching when it comes to dealing with a violent attack).

now as for falling apart in front of a commited attacker...what exactly is a commited attacker? someone who wants your money? someone who wants you dead? if that's the case, they're not interested in fighting & testing out your martial arts skills. it's a bullet in the head, a baseball bat from behind, or worse. i'm not saying training won't help at all in these situations. but i think people far over-estimate it's value.

exactly...it's not a "challenge" or a bar-fight...it's an ambush. They will seek to ensure that they have every possible advantage and that you are not adequately preparred.
This is why criminals use ruses to close the distance and get us to lower our guard momentarily so they can strike. This is why they wait between parked cars in a dark parking lot, or get into your car and hide in the back seat...

let's say some sort of professional criminal is out to make some money. is he going to target the person who looks fit, walks with their head up, & pays atttention to what's going on? he doesn't get points for someone being a hard target. he's going to look for the person with their head down, talking on the cell, scanning the newspaper, etc.

Very true, but we all lapse into condition white from time to time...

 

[Tez3]

Good.

Now what're we supposed to talk about?

:ultracool Nice one!

 

[dewey]

I think you're overanalyzing a little...to me "false confidence" is when someone thinks they know what they're doing and believing in what they're doing when they really have no clue. (possibly because the instructor has no clue what he/she should really be teaching when it comes to dealing with a violent attack).

I would certainly agree with this. I think the real issue is the fact that a lot of folks confuse martial arts training with self-defense training. They intersect quite a bit of places, but are not the same thing. That's where the false confidence comes from.

On top of this, a disproportionate (and growing) amount of commercial martial arts instructors are often "one art" types that never seriously crosstrain in another unrelated style/system in order to test the effectiveness of their chosen art/style/system as well as to improve themselves as a martial artist. It's the main reason why I left one dojo and joined another. My current Aikido instructor is a police officer & former SWAT of 15 years as well as tactical handgun instructor...so he knows his s**t and has been tested. Thus, I have complete confidence in his instruction.

In regards to unarmed self-defense, I'm largely an Aikido guy (per the instructor mentioned above), but have dabbled with Judo a little and am interested in giving MMA a try. Not because I think I'm a badass...but precisely because I want to test my skills, grow technique and improve in those areas that need it.

 

[jarrod]

I think you're overanalyzing a little...to me "false confidence" is when someone thinks they know what they're doing and believing in what they're doing when they really have no clue. (possibly because the instructor has no clue what he/she should really be teaching when it comes to dealing with a violent attack).

you may be right, i've been accused of overanalyzing before...but my larger point is that i'm not advocating teaching junk martial arts with the purpose of instilling false confidence. but people should be realistic about how they approach training. for instance, one of my judo/jujitsu partners is a rather small guy, & a watch maker. if he busts up his hands or wrists he's out of work. if he doesn't have a deep abiding love of striking arts, should he train them & risk his livelihood because striking arts may help him in a self-defense scenario? i don't think so.

exactly...it's not a "challenge" or a bar-fight...it's an ambush. They will seek to ensure that they have every possible advantage and that you are not adequately preparred.
This is why criminals use ruses to close the distance and get us to lower our guard momentarily so they can strike. This is why they wait between parked cars in a dark parking lot, or get into your car and hide in the back seat...


Very true, but we all lapse into condition white from time to time...

sure. i'm just saying that if you google self-defense cases in the news, you'll find that usually the defender was armed, or fought back despite not having training. it's just very rare for a trained martial artist to get attacked in the first place.

dewey makes a great point about self-defense not necessarily being the same as martial arts, although they do coincide. if true self-defense is your goal, your training should focus on firearms & knife training, defensive driving (you're far more likely to get in a wreck than be attacked), first aid, economic stabilty, etc. 17,000 people were murdered in the US in 2007, compared with 37,000 fatal car accidents. being weak in any of these areas is far more likely to cause you harm than not having enough unarmed martial arts training.

jf

 

[KenpoTex]

dewey makes a great point about self-defense not necessarily being the same as martial arts, although they do coincide. if true self-defense is your goal, your training should focus on firearms & knife training, defensive driving (you're far more likely to get in a wreck than be attacked), first aid, economic stabilty, etc. 17,000 people were murdered in the US in 2007, compared with 37,000 fatal car accidents. being weak in any of these areas is far more likely to cause you harm than not having enough unarmed martial arts training.

jf

yep...which is why I've told my students (and posted here) that if you're really serious about self defense and you're not training with and carrying weapons (when possible), you're not really serious.
The first-aid and driving are also excellent areas in which to seek professional training (and the driving is fun...J-turns rock )

 

[jarrod]

glad we could see eye to eye

jf

 

[BillW]

There have been many interesting thoughts in this thread. I think that we should all realize that what arts we study for fighting or self-defense there will always be one confounding variable in our training -- we know what is and what is going to happen to us. In reality when you are going to get attacked you will not know it is coming. This distinguishes fighting from self-defense since you know you are about to get into a fight-- it is for the most part a reciprocal exchange. However, if you are in a self-defense situation most likely you had no idea it was coming.. Now it is easy to say to avoid situations and have an eye in the back of your head -- but in reality none of us are walking around like Rambo. Most likely you will get attacked in a scenario where you are leaving work and are getting on a subway car looking at a blackberry email message from you boss and bang it happens.. before you know it you were hit, stabbed, multiple attackers, etc. You can replace the elements of this scenario with whatever reflects where you live. No amount of standard dojo training can prepare you for the ultimate realistic element of surprise.. The no-mind drills attempt to come close, but you still know you will get attacked and you know your attacker is not out to kill you. In reality you will not know it is coming, not know your attacker(s) and your attacker will be out to kill you, and very often the attacker will have nothing to loose. In these types of real world situations the attacker has all of the advantages.. In this type of situation your hormone levels, brain EEG activity, neurotransmitter levels, etc. will be completely different than during training.

No matter what martial arts training you have -- how do you really prepare for this type of attack?? How do you remove this ever present confounding variable in our training?? How can we train to introduce the surprise, realism, danger and physiological states of real world scenarios and still have schools that average people want to enroll in?? I don't have the answers -- just the questions.

Thanks.

 

[Guardian]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian
so imho, that's the best defense. avoid dangerous places, & do whatever is necessary to feel good about yourself. everything else will fall into place.

What is a dangerous place now a days? I understand what you are referring to, but there is very few safe places anymore in my view. Ok, there are some places more dangerous then others, but that line is becoming thinner by the week.


no place is absolutely safe, of course. i live in a fairly high crime area. but for the most part, that crime is petty theft & alcohol related violence (domestic disputes, bar fights, etc.) so as long as i don't go out drinking & lock my doors, i feel pretty safe.

My point exactly here though, pretty safe is not exclusively safe, that's all I meant by that my friend. No place is safe anymore, not even home.