OP
OP
Self Defense against an MMA trained aggressor
- Thread starter Makalakumu
- Start date
tellner
Senior Master
Let's see. The typical MMA guy is in very good physical condition. He can take a punch. He can land one. He's comfortable far away, boxing, in the clinch or on the ground. It sounds like it's going to be a long, long day if you try to play knuckle tag or wrestle with him.
So don't.
Be fast off the mark because every second you waste plays to his advantages.
Use a weapon if you can.
Remember that concrete is a much less forgiving surface than canvas or mats.
Use things in your environment that are not normally found in a gym or an MMA Octagon.
MMA is less constrained than most martial arts or martial sports, but it has conventions. Tap. If he relaxes or lets up then take that moment of hesitation to launch the nastiest, most devastating, highest-percentage attack you have. You'll have a moment while his mental gears switch. When they do he'll be really pissed, so make sure your one shot is a good one.
Other than that, follow the same principles you would against any dangerous or trained attacker.
So don't.
Be fast off the mark because every second you waste plays to his advantages.
Use a weapon if you can.
Remember that concrete is a much less forgiving surface than canvas or mats.
Use things in your environment that are not normally found in a gym or an MMA Octagon.
MMA is less constrained than most martial arts or martial sports, but it has conventions. Tap. If he relaxes or lets up then take that moment of hesitation to launch the nastiest, most devastating, highest-percentage attack you have. You'll have a moment while his mental gears switch. When they do he'll be really pissed, so make sure your one shot is a good one.
Other than that, follow the same principles you would against any dangerous or trained attacker.
In MMA competitions when they go to the ground it's nice clean padded canvas, no one goes to the gorund in the street if they can help it, broken glass, vomit, dog mess, other peoples feet within kicking distance etc.
If an MMA fighter is going to fight on the street I very much doubt any rules will come into his head, as everyone who has ever sparred in a club will testify, competitions are very different from a real fight, it won't be MMA it will be Vale tudo - anything goes!
I know it's different in the States but most MMA fighters I know have trained in TMAs before, some still do. I think the advantage MMAers have is that because of the nature of their training they aren't fixed as to being only able to do standup or only being able to do groundwork, they expect anything as well that can come their way whether it's kick, punches or takedowns.
I would suggest watching Bas Ruttens excellent dvd on self defence.
If an MMA fighter is going to fight on the street I very much doubt any rules will come into his head, as everyone who has ever sparred in a club will testify, competitions are very different from a real fight, it won't be MMA it will be Vale tudo - anything goes!
I know it's different in the States but most MMA fighters I know have trained in TMAs before, some still do. I think the advantage MMAers have is that because of the nature of their training they aren't fixed as to being only able to do standup or only being able to do groundwork, they expect anything as well that can come their way whether it's kick, punches or takedowns.
I would suggest watching Bas Ruttens excellent dvd on self defence.
allenjp
Brown Belt
Good idea, I have seen some of his recorded stuff and it is good!
BTW if you're going to be in HI., won't there be a lot of sand around...? Pick it up and throw it...
OP
OP
Well, I know one thing that might be helpful. Get my butt in a MMA gym.
OP
OP
I met some students of Relson Gracie and they offered to invite me to his gym. Also, there is a very good MMA gym in Kaneohe. Apparently, both Robbie Lawler and BJ Penn have trained there...
Oooh get yourself down there and get your spare room ready I'll be there as soon as I can to come with you LOL!
Seriously though I'd go if I were you, MMA gyms tend to be friendly and more casual than TMA places so it can make a pleasant change to train in a different atmosphere. They will enjoy your TMA input as well! Seriously, very few MMAers will resist training with someone who has different techniques for them to try.
FearlessFreep
Senior Master
I dunno... how do you train SD against anyone where you don't know their skills before the first move? Same as someone skilled in Tae Kwon Do or Hapkido or BJJ or.... You have to react to the motion of the moment and probably don't know what their training base is. And even if you did, how many moves or how much time are you going to have to put together a strategy?
And for that matter... how much of their training is sport based and how much is combat based? Someone who trains an art (TKD, BJJ, MMA) for the sport competition is going to fight a lot differently than someone who trains for combat, or art.
So in that second of "hmmm...I just pissed this guy off and he's taking a swing at me... but he trains in [MMA|TKD|WuShu|Muy Thai] so that means my approach should be to do..."
I guess practicing SD against different partners to get a feel for what you might see would be good, but I'm not sure if you can put together a "SD against MMA" mentality because.... at what point do you figure out this piece of information?
And for that matter... how much of their training is sport based and how much is combat based? Someone who trains an art (TKD, BJJ, MMA) for the sport competition is going to fight a lot differently than someone who trains for combat, or art.
So in that second of "hmmm...I just pissed this guy off and he's taking a swing at me... but he trains in [MMA|TKD|WuShu|Muy Thai] so that means my approach should be to do..."
I guess practicing SD against different partners to get a feel for what you might see would be good, but I'm not sure if you can put together a "SD against MMA" mentality because.... at what point do you figure out this piece of information?
frank raud
Master of Arts
There was an article in SWAT magazine a few months ago about defending against rogue MMAers. I'll have to dig it out, but I remember it referencing to understanding clinch work and the use of knives.
Rogue MMAers? How do we go rogue then? good grief we're only martial artists like everyone else here!
7starmarc
Green Belt
I don't know too much about the islands, but I have known some resident physicians who have done internship training in Hawaii. From what they've told me, MMA training is probably not what you have to worry about most. According to them, they got pretty good at treating knife wounds on their trauma service (moreso than other colleagues training in other regions). I'm not sure how representative that is, but it appears that knives are relatively common weapons out there.
As to your question about MMA, I assume your referring to the "classic" Muy Thai/BJJ combo or the ground and pounders, as these are probably the most common styles trained in MMA gyms.
I'd say, first and foremost, maintain all other SD principles of awareness, de-escalation, etc.
If the fit hits the shan, respect the striking, watch for and defend the takedowns. If you do get taken down, watch for both BJJ moves and pounding, and get to your feet as quickly as possible in any way possible, because he might have friends.
Obviously, some of your reactions will depend on your skillset, but I have yet to see someone recommend going to the ground in self defense. Remember, do not get into the mindset that this is a sparring match, nobody has agreed on any rules or safeguards, you don't know how far the other guy will go.
And watch for those knives.
As for your use of weapons. Be careful. You better be real sure you're not the one escalating things to deadly force.
As to your question about MMA, I assume your referring to the "classic" Muy Thai/BJJ combo or the ground and pounders, as these are probably the most common styles trained in MMA gyms.
I'd say, first and foremost, maintain all other SD principles of awareness, de-escalation, etc.
If the fit hits the shan, respect the striking, watch for and defend the takedowns. If you do get taken down, watch for both BJJ moves and pounding, and get to your feet as quickly as possible in any way possible, because he might have friends.
Obviously, some of your reactions will depend on your skillset, but I have yet to see someone recommend going to the ground in self defense. Remember, do not get into the mindset that this is a sparring match, nobody has agreed on any rules or safeguards, you don't know how far the other guy will go.
And watch for those knives.
As for your use of weapons. Be careful. You better be real sure you're not the one escalating things to deadly force.
KenpoTex
Senior Master
The point of the article was having a few strategies for dealing with being taken to the ground or put into submissions or chokes. It wasn't slamming MMA, just saying that an MMA-trained attacker presents a very serious problem (I guess you could even say the author was paying MMA a "left-handed" compliment).
edit: for anyone interested, the article titled "CONDITION RED! Defending Against Rogue Mixed Martial Artists" by Steve Moses was in the March '08 issue of SWAT Magazine
PG Michael B
White Belt
In reality good people do not attack good people. I have been training 28 + years and never in that time have I ever had an altercation with a martial artist. The skirmishes I have been involved with were due to beer muscled buffoons or out of control ding dongs who believe that a sucker punch and an attitude wins the day. However, for this scenario it to me is quite simple...do not duel! That falls into the game of an MMA guy in spades. Do what you do and do it sneaky, dirty, underhanded and first...the old adage..hit, hard fast and first. Do not play the hey dude I am a bad *** look at me crappola that has all the makings of a baboon chest puffing contest. Ambush him (ambush is a mind set not a technique)....do what you gotta do and simply drive on.
If you ain't cheating you ain't trying...Go ugly early and WIN!!!!...if it escalates draw you shank and go to work..same/same with a pistola..just be damn sure you have to!
Keep your head, breath and carry on..hooah! Better yet...just don't put yourself there...listen to that gut instinct!
PG Michael B
Bahad Zu'Bu KA'LI Ilustrisimo
www.bahadzubuwest.org
If you ain't cheating you ain't trying...Go ugly early and WIN!!!!...if it escalates draw you shank and go to work..same/same with a pistola..just be damn sure you have to!
Keep your head, breath and carry on..hooah! Better yet...just don't put yourself there...listen to that gut instinct!
PG Michael B
Bahad Zu'Bu KA'LI Ilustrisimo
www.bahadzubuwest.org
My suggestion is if it hits the fan, and you can't avoid the attack by leaving safely, if he's armed drive inside his arc and take deep eyes or collapse the windpipe or drop the shoulder into his knee until you hit the ground with it, if not armed groin, ankle and/or knees, maybe a little kino mutai if he tries to take you down.
OP
OP
Oh, ewww. My teachers teacher had everyone gnawing through raw steaks in order to learn correct biting techniques. I suppose though, if the flesh has got to fly, then it's got to fly...
Deaf Smith
Master of Arts
If you wish to defeat an opponent understand how they fight. MMA has the term "mixed" in it. So understand what is involved.
Might even be a good idea to go to a MMA school, don't tell them your skills, and learn from them to see what they have.
You might even pick up some good skills you like (and that's why at heart I'm a JKD man, cuase I pick what is usefull to me from any place I can learn.)
I presume the fear here is ground fighting. There are many things one can do, like knee strikes, elbow slams from above, eye jabs and pokes (while o the ground), mouth rips, scrotum grabs, biting (ear, nose, throat, hands, forearms, etc..).
Other things like use of folder knives, ice picks, stilettos, and the like. And of course, a good Smith Centennial .38 in the thigh, or ribs, or back, does wonders to get people off you.
Deaf
Might even be a good idea to go to a MMA school, don't tell them your skills, and learn from them to see what they have.
You might even pick up some good skills you like (and that's why at heart I'm a JKD man, cuase I pick what is usefull to me from any place I can learn.)
I presume the fear here is ground fighting. There are many things one can do, like knee strikes, elbow slams from above, eye jabs and pokes (while o the ground), mouth rips, scrotum grabs, biting (ear, nose, throat, hands, forearms, etc..).
Other things like use of folder knives, ice picks, stilettos, and the like. And of course, a good Smith Centennial .38 in the thigh, or ribs, or back, does wonders to get people off you.
Deaf
