Seeking Magical Scroll of easy wisdom!

seasoned

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
11,253
Reaction score
1,232
Location
Lives in Texas
TY seasoned, you are very true, that was a very wing chun like response!
I am.. beyond words as to the rest of you gentlemen.. -shakes head in dissapointment-
Thanks, you guys seem to have so much fun over here. I like hanging here once in a while.
 

Si-Je

Master Black Belt
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
1,033
Reaction score
17
Location
Texas
Ya'll are so naughty! lol!

I think what may help you "relax" in your movements in Si Lim Tao may be to focus on flowing from one movement to the other. Say when you do tan sau to (what we call chit sau) and back to tan sau, flow each movement from the other. Don't stop in between movements to much.

I've seen a couple of WC/WT stylists do SLT form where they kinda "jerk" from one movement to the other to "accentuate" each separate movement from the next. But, I've found that if you just flow from one technique to the other you'll be more relaxed in your movements. Your structure will come because your going slow.
Focus on flowing from one to the next movement. (and yes, your going to be using some muscle strength to actually lift your arm. But, don't get hung up on that. It just doesn't take alot of physical strength to lift your arm up in the air and move it around. ;) I try to keep WC/WT simple because well, it is simple.)

We had a couple of guys that studied Wing Tzun for a long time come in and when they did the form they focused more on (what seemed like to me) kinda "jerking" from one technique to the other. I guess to focus on forward pressure or accuentate each movement.
Not that this is wrong or anything, I just have noticed it does make them more "tense" when doing the form. And we do the form differently.
See how this Sigung does the form. It's so slow!!! And only 3 and a half minutes, but it seems so much more slow than that! lol! We do the first part really, really, reaeeeeally slow. :) That's your chi building section, by the way. internal energy and forward though force come from the first part of the form, as I've been taught.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNX8VG_t6to

When each movement is completed focus on already beginning the next movement to flow to. Don't "stop" for each specific movement. (yes, you still kinda focus on accentuating between techniques just 'softer") Flow from one to the other.

Forward thought "force" is a mindset. You just "think" forward, even when your movements are coming back to the centerline. Even whey your moving backward with hands or stance your intent is still forward. No movement from your body will actually improve this. Your working with "intent". Like a spring that is always "loaded" or "coiled" ready to spring.
It's just weird at first. I just litterally think the word "forward" over and over in my head when I do the form, application, or even sparring. This silences everything else my mind would want to bother me with and allows me to utilize true forward pressure and spring energy.
But, that just helps me. It might be a different thing for someone else.

As for the "abduction" well, from reading ya'lls posts, I may be doing it wrong. lol! We focus on major tension in the legs, and butt. We don't bring the knees together so close as a fist distance away. But we really focus on keeping alot of tension in the legs and butt, while keeping the upper body "loose and relaxed". (kinda makes me think of the movie Kill Bill vol. 2 when she meets Pai Mai and she spars him and tries to kick him in the nuts.. remember? He was in Basic SLT stance and when she kicked then he brought the knees closer together to catch her foot when she tried to rack him. like a "block". a fist distance away. That would be a great way to demonstrate when you actually use the stance in that position.) But anyways... lol! (I love that stupid movie!)

One drill you could do for stance... and I think it would help you not be too tense but keep the right amount of tension in your stance at the same time.....

You could use a children's ball, get one at a dollar store. One of those little rubber balls about 6 inches in diameter, (ya know, like with spiderman on it or something. lol!)
...and put that between your theighs just above the knee. If you squeeze too hard the soft rubber ball will kinda "sqwish" out from your legs. If your too light it will eventually drop. Sometimes we use a volleyball, but I've found that the softer kids rubber balls are better.

But, here's a different spin on using a ball....

Try to walk in stance while keeping the ball between your knees. I used to have a kids class where we had "ball races". Where the kids had to try to "run" from one wall to the other while keeping the ball between their legs in a race. If it dropped they had to stop and start over from the exact place where it dropped. This kept them from "cheating". Kiddos loved it, and it was a good way to "trick" them into doing stancework.
But, I found out that their stances ended up being better than the adults because of this game, and more "versitile" when sparring. So, if you can get an adult to "play with a ball" when training stance you'll get a better stance.
I'd have them do this when chainpunching the moving bags and focus mits too. That way they got used to ALWAYS using abduction when applying Wing Chun application and sparring.

If you can turn, pivot, and step in SLT basic stance while punching and keeping the ball between your legs then you'll keep your "structure" in a pinch, or a fight. And soon, you won't even have to think about it either.
Sifu Hubbie tells me that when he trained with GM Fung that he'd make them litterally run around in SLT stance like jogging in a way. Try running in SLT stance for a considerable distance and see how it makes your legs feel. Then see how you use the stance when sparring or doing WT application. It will become more of a natural way to stand for you, and you can focus more on your hand work without thinking so much on the two at the same time. :)
Hope that helps. Little wordy. Sorry.
 
OP
Nabakatsu

Nabakatsu

Brown Belt
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
485
Reaction score
8
Location
Minnesota USA
Amazing post there Si-Je! you always come through in that respect, always give as much as ya can with true good intentions, jogging in SNT stance.. now that sounds like an interesting idea! I liked the video too, trying to flow my techniques more could certainly assist the situation, I try to feel my forward intent, like something coming out of my stomache area, almost like tentacles, tentacles.. that are making my energy body move out of me kind of, it's a weird sensation, I may have to give "forward forward forward" a shot sometime here :D
Thanks for sharing!
 

koenig

Yellow Belt
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
43
Reaction score
0
Physiologically speaking it's not possible to move without muscular tension, so I think the whole thing i just meant to be a metaphor.

Traditional brainwashed MAists always say things like "move with your tendons, not your muscles" etc. It's gotta be meant to not be taken literally because tendons can't contract.

They just mean don't muscle the heck out of every technique.
 

Si-Je

Master Black Belt
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
1,033
Reaction score
17
Location
Texas
Amazing post there Si-Je! you always come through in that respect, always give as much as ya can with true good intentions, jogging in SNT stance.. now that sounds like an interesting idea! I liked the video too, trying to flow my techniques more could certainly assist the situation, I try to feel my forward intent, like something coming out of my stomache area, almost like tentacles, tentacles.. that are making my energy body move out of me kind of, it's a weird sensation, I may have to give "forward forward forward" a shot sometime here :D
Thanks for sharing!

Yes! tentacles! lol!
That will work.
totally out of your stomache area, that's where your chi comes from. Don't listen to those people that tell you to fear that. It's your energy. You won't hurt yourself...
It's your energy. you send it forward and with your intention you a bad ***...
done deal.
watch those vids about that tony guy from Sifu Fung's lineage and play with the idea.
I actually made a 300 lb. guy fall to his knees just because I mimicked one of Tony's movements, to break the structure of his body.
It wouldn't have worked if Sifu Hubbie didn't train me before I watched the video, but, I'll tell you. It does work!
You don't have to punch the hell out of them. you can defeat them differently.
help me out Mook !! you know what I'm talking about!
It does work I don't care if you guys call it hokey.
You go ahead and make sure your really really strong, and I'll make sure I understand energy and chi and wing chun. You can be strong, but I'll deflect it, because that's what I'm trained to do.. ha!
Your on the right track. your so close it's not even funny!
Take your time and train with Sifu. He will show you.
You can do all the push ups you want or whatever, but when it comes to WC/WT, you'll find you don't need it.
;)
 

mook jong man

Senior Master
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
3,080
Reaction score
263
Location
Matsudo , Japan
Ya'll are so naughty! lol!

I think what may help you "relax" in your movements in Si Lim Tao may be to focus on flowing from one movement to the other. Say when you do tan sau to (what we call chit sau) and back to tan sau, flow each movement from the other. Don't stop in between movements to much.

I've seen a couple of WC/WT stylists do SLT form where they kinda "jerk" from one movement to the other to "accentuate" each separate movement from the next. But, I've found that if you just flow from one technique to the other you'll be more relaxed in your movements. Your structure will come because your going slow.
Focus on flowing from one to the next movement. (and yes, your going to be using some muscle strength to actually lift your arm. But, don't get hung up on that. It just doesn't take alot of physical strength to lift your arm up in the air and move it around. ;) I try to keep WC/WT simple because well, it is simple.)

We had a couple of guys that studied Wing Tzun for a long time come in and when they did the form they focused more on (what seemed like to me) kinda "jerking" from one technique to the other. I guess to focus on forward pressure or accuentate each movement.
Not that this is wrong or anything, I just have noticed it does make them more "tense" when doing the form. And we do the form differently.
See how this Sigung does the form. It's so slow!!! And only 3 and a half minutes, but it seems so much more slow than that! lol! We do the first part really, really, reaeeeeally slow. :) That's your chi building section, by the way. internal energy and forward though force come from the first part of the form, as I've been taught.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNX8VG_t6to

When each movement is completed focus on already beginning the next movement to flow to. Don't "stop" for each specific movement. (yes, you still kinda focus on accentuating between techniques just 'softer") Flow from one to the other.

Forward thought "force" is a mindset. You just "think" forward, even when your movements are coming back to the centerline. Even whey your moving backward with hands or stance your intent is still forward. No movement from your body will actually improve this. Your working with "intent". Like a spring that is always "loaded" or "coiled" ready to spring.
It's just weird at first. I just litterally think the word "forward" over and over in my head when I do the form, application, or even sparring. This silences everything else my mind would want to bother me with and allows me to utilize true forward pressure and spring energy.
But, that just helps me. It might be a different thing for someone else.

As for the "abduction" well, from reading ya'lls posts, I may be doing it wrong. lol! We focus on major tension in the legs, and butt. We don't bring the knees together so close as a fist distance away. But we really focus on keeping alot of tension in the legs and butt, while keeping the upper body "loose and relaxed". (kinda makes me think of the movie Kill Bill vol. 2 when she meets Pai Mai and she spars him and tries to kick him in the nuts.. remember? He was in Basic SLT stance and when she kicked then he brought the knees closer together to catch her foot when she tried to rack him. like a "block". a fist distance away. That would be a great way to demonstrate when you actually use the stance in that position.) But anyways... lol! (I love that stupid movie!)

One drill you could do for stance... and I think it would help you not be too tense but keep the right amount of tension in your stance at the same time.....

You could use a children's ball, get one at a dollar store. One of those little rubber balls about 6 inches in diameter, (ya know, like with spiderman on it or something. lol!)
...and put that between your theighs just above the knee. If you squeeze too hard the soft rubber ball will kinda "sqwish" out from your legs. If your too light it will eventually drop. Sometimes we use a volleyball, but I've found that the softer kids rubber balls are better.

But, here's a different spin on using a ball....

Try to walk in stance while keeping the ball between your knees. I used to have a kids class where we had "ball races". Where the kids had to try to "run" from one wall to the other while keeping the ball between their legs in a race. If it dropped they had to stop and start over from the exact place where it dropped. This kept them from "cheating". Kiddos loved it, and it was a good way to "trick" them into doing stancework.
But, I found out that their stances ended up being better than the adults because of this game, and more "versitile" when sparring. So, if you can get an adult to "play with a ball" when training stance you'll get a better stance.
I'd have them do this when chainpunching the moving bags and focus mits too. That way they got used to ALWAYS using abduction when applying Wing Chun application and sparring.

If you can turn, pivot, and step in SLT basic stance while punching and keeping the ball between your legs then you'll keep your "structure" in a pinch, or a fight. And soon, you won't even have to think about it either.
Sifu Hubbie tells me that when he trained with GM Fung that he'd make them litterally run around in SLT stance like jogging in a way. Try running in SLT stance for a considerable distance and see how it makes your legs feel. Then see how you use the stance when sparring or doing WT application. It will become more of a natural way to stand for you, and you can focus more on your hand work without thinking so much on the two at the same time. :)
Hope that helps. Little wordy. Sorry.

Si-je you are right , in my lineage which is headed by the man in the video who was my master's master . We always do the forms in a relaxed way , as you said flowing from one move to the other . We were told to not have gaps between the movements just a continuous flow of relaxed movement.

Have I told ya's about the time when Sigung Tsui came to Sydney to visit my master , and I was only in grade two at the time and never met him before . He was just a photo up on the wall with Yip Man that we had to bow to after each training session as a mark of respect .

Well apparently Sigung likes to go on big long walks every morning where ever he is. By coincidence I had to attend a course in the city for my job , so I get in their pretty early and decide to have a cup of java at Mcdonalds , I finish my coffee and start walking up one of the main streets in Sydney to where the course was held .

I'm pretty much still half asleep because Macca's coffee is crap , as I'm walking I look up into the distance and I see a rather skinny old chinese gentlemen browsing in the shop windows . I thought to myself gee that old guys got good posture , his back was totally straight , you know how old people get that bent over look when they get old , well he didn't have that.

When I got closer It suddenly dawned on me , holy crap thats the guy on the wall , thats Sigung. I was so excited I went up and yelled out SIGUNG , he was startled and turned around . For a split second I thought I was going to die , the look in his eyes turned me to ice . I started to panic , oh my God he thinks I'm a nutter and about to attack him.

I start gibbering away to him and he doesn't understand because he speaks cantonese , so I start waving my arms around in a frantic attempt at mimicing chi sau and said " I umm...... train....." and I start pointing towards the other side of the city " Umm ..... me train down there ...... at Sifu Jim place".

His face lit up and a big smile broke across his face and he started laughing. By this time I was going to be late for my course if I didn't get a move on , so I shook his hand and said goodbye. I would have liked to have stayed with him , but he couldn't understand me and I couldn't understand him , it would have been great if I could speak cantonese .

I would have ditched the stupid course and we could have talked Wing Chun all the way back to the school which would have taken the best part of an hour. But what a great hour that would of been .
 
OP
Nabakatsu

Nabakatsu

Brown Belt
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
485
Reaction score
8
Location
Minnesota USA
What a story man! I was about to miss a game I've been in line for, for a good 45 minutes to finish reading it I was so captivated :p
Sounds like one of those rare golden moments that only ever happen so often
Sounds like I'd be able to have a good laugh about that if it happened to me for the rest of my life, A dai sifu of wing chun ready to bounce on ya, and a hurried frantic (so it sounded from the description) attempt at explaining yourself so as not to get mauled.
Thanks for the read :p
 

Si-Je

Master Black Belt
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
1,033
Reaction score
17
Location
Texas
That's so cool Mook! Ever thought of learning Cantonese? It seems that those fellas come over to your school pretty often from the videos that are posted online.

I posted his Si Lim Tao, because we do that SLT and that's how hubbie taught me to flow in SLT. Well, and because I think I like the way he does it the best I've seen online or elsewhere. Probably because it's the way I've been taught, I know :) but he flows more than some others I've seen.

Lol! your story was so cute! He might have just heel kicked you in the nads! :) It's always fun to communicate by playing charades. :) Too cool to have been able to meet him and see him at the school.
 

mook jong man

Senior Master
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
3,080
Reaction score
263
Location
Matsudo , Japan
That's so cool Mook! Ever thought of learning Cantonese? It seems that those fellas come over to your school pretty often from the videos that are posted online.

I posted his Si Lim Tao, because we do that SLT and that's how hubbie taught me to flow in SLT. Well, and because I think I like the way he does it the best I've seen online or elsewhere. Probably because it's the way I've been taught, I know :) but he flows more than some others I've seen.

Lol! your story was so cute! He might have just heel kicked you in the nads! :) It's always fun to communicate by playing charades. :) Too cool to have been able to meet him and see him at the school.

I only know a couple of words , I can count to 10 , and the word for relax is fong sung or something like that . I haven't had much contact with anybody from the school since we parted ways , but I will always have a place in my heart for Sigung .

After that little episode I saw him many times at the school when I had become an instructor , he was there one day having a snooze in the chair obviously still jet lagged from his trip over when I come in but he woke up and started watching me when I was teaching some students a particular kick , I was nervous I thought he might think I was teaching it wrong , but he didn't come over , so It must of been okay.

He's like a kindly old grandfather he loves his students like they are his children , I remember that one of the Aussie guys went to Hong Kong for a week to train at Sigungs school , and the chi sau training is long and intensive and the Aussie guy hurt his back , well he wasn't going to let a little thing like back pain stop him from training at Sigungs school .

So he turned up at the school the next day , Sigung greeted him and handed him a one of those back brace things you get from the pharmacy . Sigung had gone out and bought it for him out of his own money , and I've heard other stories about when people go to give him an envelope each month with their fees in it , he takes a bit of the cash out and gives it back to them and says this is too much .

He is just from another time when people were more considerate , and had moral fibre. I wish I was back at the school sometimes but too much water has passed under the bridge . Now that Sifu Jim has passed on and because he was Sigungs top student , Sigung has taken over and flys over from Hong Kong every three months or so to teach the chief instructors and make sure the standard is upheld .

And Instructor Tony and Instructor Albert (he's another high ranking guy) they run the Adelaide school which is in another state , so it looks like they visit the Sydney school as well to keep the standard up and to meet up with Sigung so that he doesn't have to go flying all around Australia to train different people.
 

Si-Je

Master Black Belt
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
1,033
Reaction score
17
Location
Texas
I'm glad that they're carring on Sifu Fungs teachings there and it seems he had alot of good folks to pass on WC to.

Sigung sounds like a awesome person. I noticed Sifu Fung just seemed like a humble nice sweet guy. From his videos, his demeanor, and from what Hubbie tells me about him. I always wanted to go out there and train there with him but it's just too costly for us.
But hubbie got to train with him for like 4 years so that's good.

Sorry to hear about Sifu, at least he has a great lineage and wonderful legacy to pass on. That's more than most of us could hope for.

Are you still training these days?
 

Ben Grimm

Yellow Belt
Joined
Dec 25, 2008
Messages
26
Reaction score
0
Sifu Fung was somebody that I would have liked to have trained with. When I'm back in Australia, I'll visit one of his schools. I do know of his tragic passing. It was and still is a blow to Wing Chun, but I'm sure that he has a strong successor that can pass on his effective teachings. Cantonese is not easy to learn. It has 9 tones. I can speak it because my wife is Cantonese. It took me a good 2 years to become proficient, and that was speaking it every day. So it will take time, just like SNT.
 

mook jong man

Senior Master
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
3,080
Reaction score
263
Location
Matsudo , Japan
I'm glad that they're carring on Sifu Fungs teachings there and it seems he had alot of good folks to pass on WC to.

Sigung sounds like a awesome person. I noticed Sifu Fung just seemed like a humble nice sweet guy. From his videos, his demeanor, and from what Hubbie tells me about him. I always wanted to go out there and train there with him but it's just too costly for us.
But hubbie got to train with him for like 4 years so that's good.

Sorry to hear about Sifu, at least he has a great lineage and wonderful legacy to pass on. That's more than most of us could hope for.

Are you still training these days?

Sifu Jim was a good guy , he had his faults though like all of us . Actually I used to teach his son , when he was about 7 years old . The kid spent more time on the ground doing push ups than anything else , because he was naughty .

I remember Sifu Jim saying that I have to be hard on his kid and don't go easy on him because he is his son. He's grown into a young man now , and from what clips I've seen he has kept up his training .

Up until about 2 years ago I was into the sticks , and knife fighting as well as training in WC with a group of friends who were former students , but then people moved , got married , had falling outs etc.

But then I developed two hernias from lifting heavy stuff at work , had a operation was out of action for a while. Then we had financial troubles , and I couldn't afford to study with the Phillipino master anymore yada yada yada.

So these days I teach my wife , and mostly do a lot of solo training. I paid a lot of money over the years to learn Wing Chun and I'll be damned If I'm just going to stop and forget it all .

But things maybe looking up , I have started training a private student who lives nearby , he heard me training in the backyard and poked his head over and said do I teach and I said I haven't taught for years but if he really wants to learn I will teach him .

We settled on the fee of 30 bucks for an hour and a half , and I taught him the next day , he's a good kid and eager to learn. His father told him to ask me because his dad thinks I'm a master lol , I told his dad that I'm no master but I am good enough to teach his son.

I'm just waiting for him to come back from a trip to Hong Kong to visit his relatives and then we will pick up where we left off.

Although he is paying me to learn , other than the money which is good , I have to teach to maintain my standard and so that I don't forget everything I learned . He says that he has other friends that would like to learn as well , so hopefully I will teach them and we can get a little training group together .

This is a bit how Sifu Jim started in the 70's when he first came to Australia , he only started teaching because he had no one to train with and he thought his skills would decline so he started teaching people in his garage ,and from there it grew to 2 massive academys in Sydney and Adelaide and many suburban branches.

But me , my ambitions are far more modest , just a small group to teach and train with would be great , no politics or bs just hard training.
 
Top