Is there actual techniques in wing chun

Nabakatsu

Brown Belt
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
485
Reaction score
8
Location
Minnesota USA
I've never knowingly saw kenpo, but i'm under the impression your answer will be no, as far as I know there are no techniques in wing tzun/chun what so ever.
 

geezer

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
7,369
Reaction score
3,582
Location
Phoenix, AZ
I've never knowingly saw kenpo, but i'm under the impression your answer will be no, as far as I know there are no techniques in wing tzun/chun what so ever.

Man, that makes me feel so much better. Before I read this, I was getting a little discouraged when my instructor kept telling me that I had, "no technique, whatsoever!" Now I know I was just getting into the correct spirit of the art.
 

Nabakatsu

Brown Belt
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
485
Reaction score
8
Location
Minnesota USA
:jediduel:You will not maintain your structure, the chain punches feel good. -waves his hand in a convincing fashion-
 

profesormental

Brown Belt
Joined
Jun 12, 2006
Messages
416
Reaction score
6
Greetings.

The "Techniques" in Kenpo refer to "Self Defense Techniques", which are actually Technique Sequences for Self Defense Scenarios.

Wing Chun curriculum is an approach that is abstracted from martial movement, and it is the individual instructor's responsibility to make drills to teach the applications to self defense and fighting.

So the answer is yes and no. It depends on the instructor.

Hope that helps.

Juan M. Mercado
 

geezer

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
7,369
Reaction score
3,582
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Greetings.

The "Techniques" in Kenpo refer to "Self Defense Techniques", which are actually Technique Sequences for Self Defense Scenarios.

Wing Chun curriculum is an approach that is abstracted from martial movement, and it is the individual instructor's responsibility to make drills to teach the applications to self defense and fighting.

So the answer is yes and no. It depends on the instructor.

Hope that helps.

Juan M. Mercado

I figured he meant something like that, but the way the question was stated, I just had to give a wise-*** response. Sorry. Anyway, glad you came through with a real answer, Profe. One of the things I like about WT is that we don't train a bunch of choreographed attack and defense sequences. The techniques are trained to be applied spontaneously, according to the situation. On the other hand, as you pointed out, many instructors do teach self defense sequences, such as the EWTO's "Blitz Self Defense" program, to name just one.
 

dungeonworks

Black Belt
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
540
Reaction score
18
I think it is more fair to say that Wing Chun is a principle based art and not technique based. Your stances and attacks are done according to these principles. There are no combination's such as contained in boxing or Karate. You attack and react according to scientific principles. You build your sensitivity through progressively harder drills and forms practice to such a level it becomes ingrained and reflexive/instinctive by nature.

Would that be accurate for this question???
 

koenig

Yellow Belt
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
43
Reaction score
0
How are Kenpo techniques different from WC techniques?

I mean I know the actual techniques themselves are different, but they both have "techniques."

Kempo has roundhouse kick, upward block, twisting punch, etc.

WC has pak sao, bong sao, straight blast, etc.

Yes they both have techniques.
 

punisher73

Senior Master
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Messages
3,959
Reaction score
1,057
How are Kenpo techniques different from WC techniques?

I mean I know the actual techniques themselves are different, but they both have "techniques."

Kempo has roundhouse kick, upward block, twisting punch, etc.

WC has pak sao, bong sao, straight blast, etc.

Yes they both have techniques.

What you are referring to as "techniques" would be called "basics" in kenpo. Self-Defense techniques as found in kenpo are a preset response that deals with a variety of attacks. Take a right straight punch for example, kenpo will have a set technique for inside the punch, outside the punch, right leg forward, left leg forward and any other variable. Wing Chun on the other hand would deal with it using concepts found within its forms (including wooden dummy) and through chi sao practice. Same end result just a different approach.
 

dungeonworks

Black Belt
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
540
Reaction score
18
I think it is more fair to say that Wing Chun is a principle based art and not technique based. Your stances and attacks are done according to these principles. There are no combination's such as contained in boxing or Karate. You attack and react according to your opponent's attack energy/force and adhering to scientific principles. You build your sensitivity through progressively harder drills and forms practice to such a level it becomes ingrained and reflexive/instinctive by nature.

Would that be accurate for this question???


There, that sounds better. Red is edited/added to my above posting.
 

koenig

Yellow Belt
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
43
Reaction score
0
so in Kenpo you're referring to a preset group of movements as a "technique"?

Or did i misunderstand?

In that case, no WC doesn't have "if he does X, you do Y" "techniques."
 

Hand Sword

Grandmaster
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Sep 22, 2004
Messages
6,545
Reaction score
61
Location
In the Void (Where still, this merciless GOD torme
I thought about this topic before with other styles similar to WC's ideas. I would have to say abstractly-yes. Each instructor in their training came up with their own formulas for their techniques and scenarios. They then pass these on to their students. They don't teach randomly so to speak, there is a structure, whether it's identified or not on the whole. All the instructors, once on their developed their own way and say that you have to do so to. But, how do you get there? You do "their ways" on the journey. (that includes their own ideas for combinations against attacks that they "pull out" to show you. Trust me, there was a lot of thought and practice of them through the years!)
 

punisher73

Senior Master
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Messages
3,959
Reaction score
1,057
so in Kenpo you're referring to a preset group of movements as a "technique"?

Or did i misunderstand?

In that case, no WC doesn't have "if he does X, you do Y" "techniques."

That is correct, in kenpo it refers to a preset group of movements. Singular movements would be referred to as basics. In Kenpo, many times the first technique learned is "Delayed Sword", it is a counter to a right handed lapel grab. You step back with your left foot and do an inward block to the attacker's arm, then you move your right foot back into a cat stance and do a front kick to the groin, and then plant forward and do a handsword to the neck (thus the delayed sword which follows the kick, in an earlier version it was the inward block right to the handsword).

They are all preset like that when learning the self-defense moves and then you learn to add, delete, prefix etc. with other basics.
 

mook jong man

Senior Master
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
3,080
Reaction score
263
Location
Matsudo , Japan
Wing Chun has the attacking and defensive structures of Tan Sau , Fook Sau and Bong Sau . Each of these movements can be utilised in a myriad of different ways .

It makes it easier to respond spontaneously to a random attack when you have three tools in your tool box that do pretty much everything rather than have a whole load of tools that only do one job.
 

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
34,336
Reaction score
9,484
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
Man, that makes me feel so much better. Before I read this, I was getting a little discouraged when my instructor kept telling me that I had, "no technique, whatsoever!" Now I know I was just getting into the correct spirit of the art.

So does this mean that my short time studying Wing Chun and now my not remembering any techniques makes me a master so now not only am I the lord high omnipotent grand master and evil wizard of Xuefu but also a master of Wing ChunCOOL!!! :D
 

Hagakure

Blue Belt
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
294
Reaction score
12
Location
Eye of Terror, UK
So does this mean that my short time studying Wing Chun and now my not remembering any techniques makes me a master so now not only am I the lord high omnipotent grand master and evil wizard of Xuefu but also a master of Wing ChunCOOL!!! :D

Agreed oh worshipful master. In fact, I think people should flood to your house to train with you, and have their photograph taken with you to lend authenticity to any schools they may open. ;)
 

Si-Je

Master Black Belt
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
1,033
Reaction score
17
Location
Texas
Well I look at it like a musician.
There are definate "techniques" in Wing Chun, like there are individual notes that each make a different sound.

Ex. You learn 8 notes in a scale in music, and their are different 8 note combinations for several different scales. One note doesn't make a song, and one scale doesn't make a song. Their drills to give you the "finger" and throat muscle memory needed to play properly and in key. The same with WC/WT. You have SLT, Chum Kiu, and Bil Gee, lat sau, lop sau, etc. to get you the muscle memory needed to execute each technique (note) properly and in key to what your applying it to.

You learn your seperate techniques like a musician would learn to read and play each individual note.

Now when you've achieved this you learn your "scales", or a combination of set movements in Wing Chun like the three forms, lop sau, lat sau, and application drills, stance work an instructor may teach a beginning student to get their muscle memory trained for proper response to certian attacks. (ex. when someone jabs you use pak sau or tan sau then... etc..)

Then when the student has a basic understanding of each technique (or note or scale) then you begin to "play" music.
As a musician we spent years playing certian songs for performance. As a WC practitioner you do spend years learning somewhat set patterns of response, but... as a WC practitioner you "improvise" much sooner.
Musicians and some MA pratitioners in other styles will still be working on set patterns, scales so to speak before they ever learn to improvise. What makes Wing Chun different is that from almost day one you begin to learn how to "improvise" and respond spontaneously.

As a musician this is a level that many never reach, "jazz improvization." Where you can hear a baseline, rythum, or song and immediately "respond" to the song and play in key and in rythum "on the fly".
Only the great ones in music can reach this level because it takes so long. As a MAist studying WC you begin at this level of thinking right off the bat whereas many other arts may not.
But, your still learning certian individual techniques and drill sets like any other student. The WC teacher just takes it to the next level of "improvisation" earlier in this art than others.
And like music, it takes years to be able to truely "improvise" well in a martial art. And like music only a few people learn to do this, where many of the world's great musicians were largely self taught or improvised naturally and adapted to music on a level many don't understand. But to them it's "natural", because they didn't learn music in the traditional method. Still makes it music. Same same, with Wing Chun. While the way WC is taught is not the "traditional" way to teach a fighting art as many other styles teach it, it's still a fighting style playing "notes, scales and music peices" like any other art, it just focuses more on improvisation in the earliest stages of learning.

Pardon guys. I'm a musician at heart and with years of training, and I've always seen drastic similarities in martial arts training and music training.

Wing Chun will always be Jazz Improv to me. The funnest part of learning and playing music. :)
 

koenig

Yellow Belt
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
43
Reaction score
0
That is correct, in kenpo it refers to a preset group of movements. Singular movements would be referred to as basics. In Kenpo, many times the first technique learned is "Delayed Sword", it is a counter to a right handed lapel grab. You step back with your left foot and do an inward block to the attacker's arm, then you move your right foot back into a cat stance and do a front kick to the groin, and then plant forward and do a handsword to the neck (thus the delayed sword which follows the kick, in an earlier version it was the inward block right to the handsword).

They are all preset like that when learning the self-defense moves and then you learn to add, delete, prefix etc. with other basics.

I was totally unaware of that. I see what you mean, now.
 
Top