Scenario sparring?

[Flying Crane]

The not freaking out is what it’s all about, yes.

Unfortunately, I still would freak out in water. Fortunately, I don’t go into the water, ever. I would never go near water unless I was with my wife, who seems to be part fish and could save anyone who was going under. The best I could do would be to drown with them.

says the man who lives on Maui. Too bad I let my scuba instructor rating expire. I would have been happy to teach you. It’s an amazing world under there.

 

[isshinryuronin]

The not freaking out is

Physical training becomes mental training in TMA.

I don’t go into the water,

Then it's a good thing you live on a small tropical island ???

I can’t fight well inside a car either

Survival rules say fight before getting stuck in a vehicle. If so, I think head butts and biting would be my first tactics.

If Kata is part of your training regime, have you done any kata on a hill?

Yes. After working graveyard shift I would take a short drive to the hills, climb to the windy top and practice bo and sai as the sun came up. I'm getting goose bumps just writing about it.

For grapplers, a hill must be kind of nuts I imagine.

I have this vision of two guys wrapped up rolling and bouncing allll the way down.

Not enough hours in the day, not enough days in a life.

You're right there! So much good stuff to learn. Sad to realize I did not take full advantage of some opportunities when they were there for me.

 

[Graywalker]

I remember back when I first started training, during sparring class our instructor would yell 'Free Fight" and would do this right in the middle of a sparring match. You would never know where the attack was coming from.

You'd be right in the middle of a match, and then all of the sudden, be getting attacked by several people waiting their turn to spar, or even someone sparring another, in their match.

And, is where I learned how devastating a shin block could be.
Good times...good times.

 

[Buka]

Physical training becomes mental training in TMA.

Then it's a good thing you live on a small tropical island ???


Yes. After working graveyard shift I would take a short drive to the hills, climb to the windy top and practice bo and sai as the sun came up. I'm getting goose bumps just writing about it.

Yeah, but I live Upcountry, at elevation. Course it's on the side of a volcano, so if it goes off in my lifetime, well, you know.

I still get those goosebumps about certain things in the Arts. I love getting them.

I've always told everyone I've trained, or trained with - If I ever stop getting nervous inside before fighting OR sparring, or if I ever stop getting goosebumps from certain things in Martial Arts, I'll quit, burn my belt, and just drink vodka.

So, you know, just to be prepared, I occasionally hunt the elusive Goose de' Grey. And smoke the occasional good cigar - in case I have to signal passing ships or something.

 

[Oni_Kadaki]

Great post.

One thing I did in advanced classes was a modified type of round robin.
While doing static warmup/stretching I would hand out a list of 10 different attacks/scenarios and we would discuss them at length, talking about various counters and appropriate attacks. Then we would circle up into groups of 11 (one person in the middle). Each person knew their number but we lined up asynchronously so you never knew where the attack was coming from. We would usually work an attack/number for a max of 1 minute then move on. If someone was having difficulty with a counter/attack we would take extra time. No hesitancy in attack and a brisk pace.

This can go on for as long as you wish. We had several sessions that lasted longer than 8 hours.
Nothing like driving home at 2 in the morning after one of these sessions. Good times.

Thanks! I've seen similar drills before. I believe @Kemposhot does something like this by the name of "no mind's" at his dojo.

Also, @JowGaWolf , might I ask why you stayed to fight if a square-off was involved? To me, escape is usually the better option, barring a professional responsibility to stay and fight (e.g. law enforcement/military). To me, you only fight if escape for you or others (e.g. a child) is not viable, in which case you fight like life itself is on the line.

 

[dvcochran]

Yeah, but I live Upcountry, at elevation. Course it's on the side of a volcano, so if it goes off in my lifetime, well, you know.

I still get those goosebumps about certain things in the Arts. I love getting them.

I've always told everyone I've trained, or trained with - If I ever stop getting nervous inside before fighting OR sparring, or if I ever stop getting goosebumps from certain things in Martial Arts, I'll quit, burn my belt, and just drink vodka.

So, you know, just to be prepared, I occasionally hunt the elusive Goose de' Grey. And smoke the occasional good cigar - in case I have to signal passing ships or something.

Very well said, Sir.

That passion you mention seems to be getting more and more watered down or outright lost, Sans Vodka.

Maybe it is a generational thing. Folks seem to express themselves differently these days. Somehow it is supposed to express emotion when you enter certain keystrokes on your keyboard. Never have really got that one. .Sure it expresses your intention but your emotion?

Admittedly, it have not felt it in a while and I am not sure I can describe it but there is nothing like the feeling leading up to a tough match. Some people use the analogy of a powder keg but that never worked for me. I never 'blew up' in a split second. Instead the pressure (emotion) would build and build until it had to be released. Over time I learned how to control the release. There were several days when you had as many as three 3-minute round matches in the same day. And then had to show up the next day and do it again. Blow off all that emotion & energy in the first match and you were going home early. Great times.
For me at least, this is one of the elements of competition that Does transfer to life.

I would say there are ineffective, overly safe, non-mental stressing tournaments that have little to no value.
One the other side of the spectrum are matches like I mentioned above.
In the middle is the majority of tournaments where there is varying degrees of pressure testing, both mental and physical. If they are done with enough frequency they have good, applicable, real world value. If they are only done a few time where a person never really 'gets it' they have no value at all.
I think they can be put in the tool bag category if done to proficiency. And the variety in going to tournaments of various styles is a very great asset and just fun as hxll.

 

[Buka]

Very well said, Sir.

That passion you mention seems to be getting more and more watered down or outright lost, Sans Vodka.

Maybe it is a generational thing. Folks seem to express themselves differently these days. Somehow it is supposed to express emotion when you enter certain keystrokes on your keyboard. Never have really got that one. .Sure it expresses your intention but your emotion?

Admittedly, it have not felt it in a while and I am not sure I can describe it but there is nothing like the feeling leading up to a tough match. Some people use the analogy of a powder keg but that never worked for me. I never 'blew up' in a split second. Instead the pressure (emotion) would build and build until it had to be released. Over time I learned how to control the release. There were several days when you had as many as three 3-minute round matches in the same day. And then had to show up the next day and do it again. Blow off all that emotion & energy in the first match and you were going home early. Great times.
For me at least, this is one of the elements of competition that Does transfer to life.

I would say there are ineffective, overly safe, non-mental stressing tournaments that have little to no value.
One the other side of the spectrum are matches like I mentioned above.
In the middle is the majority of tournaments where there is varying degrees of pressure testing, both mental and physical. If they are done with enough frequency they have good, applicable, real world value. If they are only done a few time where a person never really 'gets it' they have no value at all.
I think they can be put in the tool bag category if done to proficiency. And the variety in going to tournaments of various styles is a very great asset and just fun as hxll.

The passion, may it never go away....and maybe I'm just an easy mark....

On Saturday Night the UFC was on TV (please bear with me) there were prelims on, which I didn't watch and I'd never pay for pay per view.

There were two title fights. In one, Kamaru Usman (the Champ) defeated Jorge Masdival (former Champ) with a laser right hand to the chin for a KO. Oh my, it was such a beautiful punch. And hours after the fight, Masdival had the classiest things to say, which to me, just makes watching these things so much more enjoyable.

In the other title fight, Rose Namajunas (former Champ) KO's Weili Zhang (Champ on a 21 fight win streak) with a text book front leg roundhouse kick to the jaw. It was beautiful. Zhang is the best woman MMA fighter I've ever see. My wife and I have been following Rose Namajunas since she started. (again, please bear with me)

A friend of mine sent us the KO's on a text. As well as to a few of our friends and students. We then spent a few hours on texts and phone calls discussing the techniques. The passion we all had discussing it was the same as the passion we had as young students of the arts. Heck, I had a forty minute phone discussion on the front leg round kick alone with a fellow fighter and that was just so much fun.

Second - I visited work last Wednesday. Been out since the pandemic started. My Lt. (a good friend) wanted to introduce me to a young man who works security, that's been waiting to meet me. This kid, Paul, who's about 27, was born and raised in Tahiti. He's been boxing and competing since he was five, training and competing in Muay Thai since he was seven. He's one of the nicest young men I've met in a long while. He wants to be an MMA fighter, but doesn't know how to grapple. I'm going to teach him until he gets the basics down and then hook him up with some other people.

He's in superb shape, about two twenty, and built like a beast. My Lt sent me a vid of him shadowboxing back in Tahiti and he's quick as all hell, has nice footwork, just looks good. I wish I knew how to post it, I'd love for you guys to see it.

My point is - I'm really looking forward to training him when this pandemic is under control, both him and I are passionate about both the training and him competing. So passion still lives!

And what you said about competing, I agree completely. And "control the release" is as good a way to put it as any.

 

[dvcochran]

The passion, may it never go away....and maybe I'm just an easy mark....

On Saturday Night the UFC was on TV (please bear with me) there were prelims on, which I didn't watch and I'd never pay for pay per view.

There were two title fights. In one, Kamaru Usman (the Champ) defeated Jorge Masdival (former Champ) with a laser right hand to the chin for a KO. Oh my, it was such a beautiful punch. And hours after the fight, Masdival had the classiest things to say, which to me, just makes watching these things so much more enjoyable.

In the other title fight, Rose Namajunas (former Champ) KO's Weili Zhang (Champ on a 21 fight win streak) with a text book front leg roundhouse kick to the jaw. It was beautiful. Zhang is the best woman MMA fighter I've ever see. My wife and I have been following Rose Namajunas since she started. (again, please bear with me)

A friend of mine sent us the KO's on a text. As well as to a few of our friends and students. We then spent a few hours on texts and phone calls discussing the techniques. The passion we all had discussing it was the same as the passion we had as young students of the arts. Heck, I had a forty minute phone discussion on the front leg round kick alone with a fellow fighter and that was just so much fun.

Second - I visited work last Wednesday. Been out since the pandemic started. My Lt. (a good friend) wanted to introduce me to a young man who works security, that's been waiting to meet me. This kid, Paul, who's about 27, was born and raised in Tahiti. He's been boxing and competing since he was five, training and competing in Muay Thai since he was seven. He's one of the nicest young men I've met in a long while. He wants to be an MMA fighter, but doesn't know how to grapple. I'm going to teach him until he gets the basics down and then hook him up with some other people.

He's in superb shape, about two twenty, and built like a beast. My Lt sent me a vid of him shadowboxing back in Tahiti and he's quick as all hell, has nice footwork, just looks good. I wish I knew how to post it, I'd love for you guys to see it.

My point is - I'm really looking forward to training him when this pandemic is under control, both him and I are passionate about both the training and him competing. So passion still lives!

And what you said about competing, I agree completely. And "control the release" is as good a way to put it as any.

That is awesome!! This thing is about over so I hope you guys get to lock up very soon.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Suspicious eyes

Bedroom eyes.

I even hear there is a brown eyed girl lurking around somewhere.

Private Eyes.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Here’s a question, for anyone really. If Kata is part of your training regime, have you done any kata on a hill? How bad does that mess you up? I imagine it might depend on which way you face to start, yes?

Yes. Kata isn't a big part of what I do, but I find it's an interesting way to try things like this. So I've done kata on gravel a little too fast. I've done it on some hills, in crowded spaces, with impediments on the ground, on dramatically uneven ground (in the woods), in snow...

I don't think any one of those makes a major difference in my training, but all those experiments feed into my overall understanding of how the environment affects my movement. My striking footwork (for both punching and kicking) suffers more than my grappling movement.

 

[dvcochran]

Private Eyes.

They're watching you.
They see your every move.

 

[Buka]

Yes. Kata isn't a big part of what I do, but I find it's an interesting way to try things like this. So I've done kata on gravel a little too fast. I've done it on some hills, in crowded spaces, with impediments on the ground, on dramatically uneven ground (in the woods), in snow...

I don't think any one of those makes a major difference in my training, but all those experiments feed into my overall understanding of how the environment affects my movement. My striking footwork (for both punching and kicking) suffers more than my grappling movement.

Gravel.....I had forgotten how much I dislike training or fighting on gravel. Any kind of training or fighting.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Gravel.....I had forgotten how much I dislike training or fighting on gravel. Any kind of training or fighting.

Yeah, it's not fun. My most common place to do kata is the top of my driveway. It's pretty degraded, so there's some unevenness and a bit of exposed gravel. I could practice more in that gravel. I could.

 

[dvcochran]

Gravel.....I had forgotten how much I dislike training or fighting on gravel. Any kind of training or fighting.

As long as you are standing and in rubber soled shoes it is manageable. Once you go to the ground everything changes. It can be your ally and an offensive tool. Ask me how I know.

But you may be digging gravel out of your crack when is it all over.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I can’t fight well inside a car either. And I’ve trained it more than a few times.

Survival rules say fight before getting stuck in a vehicle. If so, I think head butts and biting would be my first tactics.

From my practice, BJJ is the best foundation for fighting in a car. The techniques all have to be modified, but the underlying principles come through nicely.

For grapplers, a hill must be kind of nuts I imagine. Again, probably depends on position maybe.

I'm okay with grappling on a hill or with weapon sparring. Unarmed striking feels much stranger.

Gravel.....I had forgotten how much I dislike training or fighting on gravel. Any kind of training or fighting.

A portion of my time learning to roll (as in ukemi, not BJJ "rolling") was on gravel. I'm not a fan. I'm glad to have the experience, but I'm not rushing out to do that again for fun.

 

[drop bear]

From my practice, BJJ is the best foundation for fighting in a car. The techniques all have to be modified, but the underlying principles come through nicely.

I'm okay with grappling on a hill or with weapon sparring. Unarmed striking feels much stranger.

A portion of my time learning to roll (as in ukemi, not BJJ "rolling") was on gravel. I'm not a fan. I'm glad to have the experience, but I'm not rushing out to do that again for fun.

Car BJJ, by the way is a thing.

 

[angelariz]

Mass attack, muay thai sparring, and bjj rolling is how my teachers prepared us for violence.

 

[jayoliver00]

A few years back, when I was changing duty stations and, as a result, leaving my dojo, my Shorin-Ryu Karate Sensei arranged a special send off. Specifically, he had us get into minimum sparring gear (mouthguards, cups, and gloves), and he had me stand in the center of the room and close my eyes. He instructed my colleagues to attack me as they saw fit. The result was that I was forced to defend myself against a variety of grabs and holds with no prior warning. It was a pretty awesome exercise.

Fast-forward to the present day, my Chito-Ryu Karate Sensei was discussing kumite. He explained that we do it infrequently because, while it is a challenge and helps build some good habits, the artificial nature of it also causes us to build some habits that are bad in an actual self defense situation. It occurred to me that my sendoff from my Shorin-Ryu school seems like a good way to bridge the gap, allowing free fighting with resistance, but without the artificiality of squaring off like one would in the octagon.

Thoughts?

All the fights I've fought in the streetz (over 10) usually started with cussing & yelling; squared off.

It's rare for Ninjas to jump you in the dark in real life. If you're walking down the street at night and people can sneak up on you like that in the first place = white belt.

 

[jayoliver00]

Not watchful eyes, in so many ways. A blind man would have more awareness

Uh no, that broad was just plain stupid and she got her friend killed. A freakin' tiger park.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

A few years back, when I was changing duty stations and, as a result, leaving my dojo, my Shorin-Ryu Karate Sensei arranged a special send off. Specifically, he had us get into minimum sparring gear (mouthguards, cups, and gloves), and he had me stand in the center of the room and close my eyes. He instructed my colleagues to attack me as they saw fit. The result was that I was forced to defend myself against a variety of grabs and holds with no prior warning. It was a pretty awesome exercise.

Fast-forward to the present day, my Chito-Ryu Karate Sensei was discussing kumite. He explained that we do it infrequently because, while it is a challenge and helps build some good habits, the artificial nature of it also causes us to build some habits that are bad in an actual self defense situation. It occurred to me that my sendoff from my Shorin-Ryu school seems like a good way to bridge the gap, allowing free fighting with resistance, but without the artificiality of squaring off like one would in the octagon.

Thoughts?

We have (rarely) done as you report, and it's good fun and I think a good training method. It still requires restraint on the part of the tori as well as the uke or someone can get seriously injured, as I'm sure you know. So in that sense, it is still somewhat artificial.

None of us want to injure or kill our training partners, nor do we want to be seriously injured or killed. It takes a certain amount of skill to apply focus well enough to demonstrate the effectiveness of any given technique without doing so. Bruises are part of the curriculum. In my opinion, broken bones should not be.

I understand what your current sensei is saying, and I also see what your former sensei was doing. Ultimately we each have to find our own path and work within those limitations.