I am feeling uncertain if I am capable to defend myself.

[Deleted member 48484]

Hello guys.

First I want to say, hello everyone! I have just joined the forum and I live in Germany.
I practice martial arts since I am 6 years old and really have practiced a broad spectrum of martial arts including rare systems such as Gjogsul and the Ju-Jutsu system that is being taught in the German Police.

However, after having had a horrible accident/injury caused during kickboxing training, which made me end up in the emergency room & after a following long break and a massive fear of even starting to practice again, I decided to go back to Shotokan Karate which I practiced years ago.

I do not regret going back but it is quite a hard transition for me to go from someone with a priority in Kickboxing/ITF Taekwondo/Boxing & Kung-Fu background to Shotokan Karate which overall feels extremely controlled, lacks realistic streets worthy sparring with full to semi contact and is overall quite heavy on Kata + having to learn Japanese (we literally have to do that here in Germany).

However, something hard as Kickboxing or Muay-Thai is off my menue as I do not want to encounter a dramatic accident like I had anymore and Karate seems to be decent enough in how it is being taught and trained and how it strengthens my body and reflexes.

HOWEVER

I am not 100% if Shotokan Karate is really THE WAY to go if you want to defend yourself and your family against brutal attackers on the streets. I do have background in more aggressive martial arts but if you haven't trained those for many years and only train Karate then your body is eventually shifting over to the Karate system and I do worry a litlte that Shotokan Karate is getting me killed when facing let's say a boxer/striker on the streets or someone who does kickboxing (here many aggressors practice Kickboxing indeed).

Is there anyone out there who is practicing Shotokan Karate and had to actually defend himself against a brutal attacker and not just some old drunk who could not walk straight anymore? Someone who can tell me that Shotokan Karate is actually useful and effective?

Or should I just drop the whole thing ? I just can't live without martial arts, I need it and it's part of my life and the only thing that I really really enjoy really.. I tried to quit martial arts overall before but after a few years I feel like garbage and eventually go back to it.

PS: I have tried various Shotokan Karate schools here and the one I am in now is definitely the best by far as our sensei actually involves Kumite as well, many dojos here only walk the Kata up and down and I think we all know that solely walking the Kata isn't going to prep you for a fight anyways..... And buying a gun isn't an option for self defense as it's illegal here.


I am looking forward to your responses.

 

[jobo]

Hello guys.

First I want to say, hello everyone! I have just joined the forum and I live in Germany.
I practice martial arts since I am 6 years old and really have practiced a broad spectrum of martial arts including rare systems such as Gjogsul and the Ju-Jutsu system that is being taught in the German Police.

However, after having had a horrible accident/injury caused during kickboxing training, which made me end up in the emergency room & after a following long break and a massive fear of even starting to practice again, I decided to go back to Shotokan Karate which I practiced years ago.

I do not regret going back but it is quite a hard transition for me to go from someone with a priority in Kickboxing/ITF Taekwondo/Boxing & Kung-Fu background to Shotokan Karate which overall feels extremely controlled, lacks realistic streets worthy sparring with full to semi contact and is overall quite heavy on Kata + having to learn Japanese (we literally have to do that here in Germany).

However, something hard as Kickboxing or Muay-Thai is off my menue as I do not want to encounter a dramatic accident like I had anymore and Karate seems to be decent enough in how it is being taught and trained and how it strengthens my body and reflexes.

HOWEVER

I am not 100% if Shotokan Karate is really THE WAY to go if you want to defend yourself and your family against brutal attackers on the streets. I do have background in more aggressive martial arts but if you haven't trained those for many years and only train Karate then your body is eventually shifting over to the Karate system and I do worry a litlte that Shotokan Karate is getting me killed when facing let's say a boxer/striker on the streets or someone who does kickboxing (here many aggressors practice Kickboxing indeed).

Is there anyone out there who is practicing Shotokan Karate and had to actually defend himself against a brutal attacker and not just some old drunk who could not walk straight anymore? Someone who can tell me that Shotokan Karate is actually useful and effective?

Or should I just drop the whole thing ? I just can't live without martial arts, I need it and it's part of my life and the only thing that I really really enjoy really.. I tried to quit martial arts overall before but after a few years I feel like garbage and eventually go back to it.

PS: I have tried various Shotokan Karate schools here and the one I am in now is definitely the best by far as our sensei actually involves Kumite as well, many dojos here only walk the Kata up and down and I think we all know that solely walking the Kata isn't going to prep you for a fight anyways..... And buying a gun isn't an option for self defense as it's illegal here.


I am looking forward to your responses.

so you want to learn to fight, kick boxing trained attackers, with out yourself running the risk of being injured by training in full contact ma,.

no, that is probably not possible, if the brutal attacker becomes brutal attackers it even less likely

learn judo, throw them on the floor and run

 

[Deleted member 48484]

so you want to learn to fight, kick boxing trained attackers, with out yourself running the risk of being injured by training in full contact ma,.

no, that is probably not possible, if the brutal attacker becomes brutal attackers it even less likely

learn judo, throw them on the floor and run

Hi.

The risk is also given in Karate as at brown belt upwards the training gets a lot more intense in our dojo and I am willing to take the risk.

The question of my thread is if anyone has used Shotokan Karate before for self-defense and if someone here who trains this system longer than me can tell me about it's effectivity.

Also, you underestimate the risk of injury on Judo Broken bones, twisted ankles are a lot more common in Judo than in Muay-Thai or Kickboxing.

 

[jobo]

Hi.

The risk is also given in Karate as at brown belt upwards the training gets a lot more intense in our dojo and I am willing to take the risk.

The question of my thread is if anyone has used Shotokan Karate before for self-defense and if someone here who trains this system longer than me can tell me about it's effectivity.

Also, you underestimate the risk of injury on Judo Broken bones, twisted ankles are a lot more common in Judo than in Muay-Thai or Kickboxing.

yes, it works, but not at all well against, trained full contact fighters, be they boxers, or mma or bjj or judo or MT

there is no way to resolve that other than perhaps to fight full contact karate, which will then at least give you a fighting chance with the result being largly determind by physical conditioning , which does tend to favour kick boxers in my exsperiance

 

[Deleted member 48484]

yes, it works, but not at all well against, trained full contact fighters, be they boxers, or mma or bjj or judo or MT

there is no way to resolve that other than perhaps to fight full contact karate, which will then give you a fighting chance with the result being largly determind by physical conditioning , which does tend to favour kick boxers in my exsperiance

How long have you been practicing Shotokan Karate and did you have to use it for self-defense already?

 

[jobo]

How long have you been practicing Shotokan Karate and did you have to use it for self-defense already?

about 5 years now give or take, no I've not used it for s4lf defence, I have used it in fights, I'm usually 50% of any fight, if I dont want to fight I just leave, no one has this far attacked me with out provocation non of them were trained fighters, if they looked like trained fighters I'd have said sorry and left

I have fought open tournaments when I was younger, those people have a significant advantage over everyone else, coz,,, the actual style is most irelivant to that, hand speed reactions and cardio are a bigger element and people who are competitive at full contact sport have those in abundance,

 

[Martial D]

For self defense fight training helps yes, but it should be a last resort. There are too many unknown factors..possible weapons..third parties..etc.

Better to have a weapon or remove yourself quickly(preferably the latter) to stay safe.

 

[Deleted member 48484]

about 5 years now give or take, no I've not used it for s4lf defence, I have used it in fights, I'm usually 50% of any fight, if I dont want to fight I just leave, no one has this far attacked me with out provocation non of them were trained fighters, if they looked like trained fighters I'd have said sorry and left

I have fought open tournaments when I was younger, those people have a significant advantage over everyone else, coz,,, the actual style is most irelivant to that, hand speed reactions and cardio are a bigger element and people who are competitive at full contact sport have those in abundance,

I don't know man. I train martial arts since 22ish years by now and you can't compare your experience from competitive fighting with a self-defense situation. In comp. fighting you usually do try to gain advantage by duration, condition, cardio to wear out the opponent and score points. In a self-defense scenario it's usually going down within 2-10 seconds at most and one of the combatants will hit the floor (or both).

I am glad for you if you can make the choice of leaving such a threatening situation just like that, but as a martial artist I don't talk about leaving a fight as I prepare for the unavoidable situation, I would always try to defuse and try to get out of a self-defense situation if I can, but there are situations in which you can't just randomly run away.... This is what this thread is about.

Having trained different styles I do agree with you to some extend about the actual style being not as relevant...but definitely not irrelevant. There is a difference between practicing 3-6 hours judo a week or 3-6 hours of boxing when it comes to self defence and the outcome of a fight against an aggressive attacker. But yes, how hard you train is surely an important factor and your phyiscal fitness as well, but not as much as you think considering I have seen super fit guys hitting the floor due to challenging some average pub brawler whos diet consists of cigarettes & whiskey. lol.

 

[Deleted member 48484]

For self defense fight training helps yes, but it should be a last resort. There are too many unknown factors..possible weapons..third parties..etc.

Better to have a weapon or remove yourself quickly(preferably the latter) to stay safe.

Stop telling me that I should withdraw from a fight guys. I am not new to martial arts and I am very well aware that fighting should be last resort. So please read the full topic, this is all about how effective Shotokan Karate is in an actual self-defence situation...telling me that I should avoid fights isn't really answering my question.

No offense.

If you guys have nothing to say to the actual question, don't say anything x)

 

[Martial D]

Firstly
I'll respond in a public forum however I see fit.
Secondly,
Karate will help you in a real fight not at all, unless you train it as MMA fighters train, with real full on resistance.

 

[Deleted member 48484]

Firstly
I'll respond in a public forum however I see fit.
Secondly,
Karate will help you in a real fight not at all, unless you train it as MMA fighters train, with real full on resistance.

If you aren't responding to the actual topic question, I doubt this is in the sense of the forum rules?

Secondly, so Karate is a complete waste of time as it is trained in most dojos then because they don't bash their head in like MMA fighters? Just to clarify.
Thanks for your input.

 

[jobo]

I don't know man. I train martial arts since 22ish years by now and you can't compare your experience from competitive fighting with a self-defense situation. In comp. fighting you usually do try to gain advantage by duration, condition, cardio to wear out the opponent and score points. In a self-defense scenario it's usually going down within 2-10 seconds at most and one of the combatants will hit the floor (or both).

I am glad for you if you can make the choice of leaving such a threatening situation just like that, but as a martial artist I don't talk about leaving a fight as I prepare for the unavoidable situation, I would always try to defuse and try to get out of a self-defense situation if I can, but there are situations in which you can't just randomly run away.... This is what this thread is about.

Having trained different styles I do agree with you to some extend about the actual style being not as relevant...but definitely not irrelevant. There is a difference between practicing 3-6 hours judo a week or 3-6 hours of boxing when it comes to self defence and the outcome of a fight against an aggressive attacker. But yes, how hard you train is surely an important factor and your phyiscal fitness as well, but not as much as you think considering I have seen super fit guys hitting the floor due to challenging some average pub brawler whos diet consists of cigarettes & whiskey. lol.

you keep jumping your terms about, all attackers are aggressive, that why they are attacking you, very far from all aggressive people are trained fighters, quite often they are very passive and walk away if they can as they have nothing to prove unless you really push the point.

if your creating a scenario were most street thugs are competitive kick boxers I find that hard to believe, they generally lack the discipline to be so. a really good way to help street thugs stop being street thugs is to teach twith MA and build the discipline that goes with it, it's a far from guaranteed result but it definetly helps

after that I've really answered your main question, if you want to be competitive against trained full contact fighters, train full contact and establish the physical attributes that go with it
nothing else is likely to help much

 

[Deleted member 48484]

you keep jumping your terms about, all attackers are aggressive, that why they are attacking you, very far from all aggressive people are trained fighters, quite often they are very passive and walk away if they can as they have nothing to prove unless you really push the point.

if your creating a scenario were most street thugs are competitive kick boxers I find that hard to believe, they generally lack the discipline to be so. a really good way to help street thugs stop being street thugs is to teach twith MA and build the discipline that goes with it, it's a far from guaranteed result but it definetly helps

after that I've really answered your main question, if you want to be competitive against trained full contact fighters, train full contact and establish the physical attributes that go with it
nothing else is likely to help much

By aggressive attacker I mean people that violently attack you with no remorse. Not some dude in a family restaurant that decides to give you a push because he was first in line on the buffet. lol. If someone is passive and walks away there is no ground to use anything physical and I am happy as I can also walk away.

In my area most brawls are incited by kickboxers. Indeed. I live on the German country side and pretty much everyone who brawls here in public has some kind of martial arts background, what you believe or not isn't really relevant here. It's facts and part of my life, sadly.

Thanks for answering the question from your side, I am still looking forward to someone who practices Karate + had to use it for self-defense, to get an insight. As your answer is something I also can get myself to. I did have to defend myself a few times but this was before I practiced Karate and what honestly helped me there was pure muscle power and aggressiveness, no complex techniques, no kicks, no punches to the face. I just want to be able to use Karate for self defense if I spend years and years of practicing it, otherwise it feels like wasted money and time..I mean for fitness there are surely better things to do such as running, yoga or calisthenics.

 

[jobo]

By aggressive attacker I mean people that violently attack you with no remorse. Not some dude in a family restaurant that decides to give you a push because he was first in line on the buffet. lol. If someone is passive and walks away there is no ground to use anything physical and I am happy as I can also walk away.

In my area most brawls are incited by kickboxers. Indeed. I live on the German country side and pretty much everyone who brawls here in public has some kind of martial arts background, what you believe or not isn't really relevant here. It's facts and part of my life, sadly.

Thanks for answering the question from your side, I am still looking forward to someone who practices Karate + had to use it for self-defense, to get an insight. As your answer is something I also can get myself to. I did have to defend myself a few times but this was before I practiced Karate and what honestly helped me there was pure muscle power and aggressiveness, no complex techniques, no kicks, no punches to the face. I just want to be able to use Karate for self defense if I spend years and years of practicing it, otherwise it feels like wasted money and time..I mean for fitness there are surely better things to do such as running, yoga or calisthenics.

you possibly need to do the other fitness things as well, then at least you may go some way to matching the physical conditioning of a trained fighter, karate training seldom reproduces the fitness required by a full contact fighter, as they are not producing full contact fighters

, rather they seem to collect middle aged men trying to compensate for there lack of conditioning by learning techniques they cant use effectively as they lack the conditioning to do so

 

[Martial D]

If you aren't responding to the actual topic question, I doubt this is in the sense of the forum rules?

Secondly, so Karate is a complete waste of time as it is trained in most dojos then because they don't bash their head in like MMA fighters? Just to clarify.
Thanks for your input.

Leave the forum policing to the mods. If you think I've broken any rules feel free to report my post, but I'm certainly not going to let you tell me how I'm allowed to post, brand new person..

And

Bash their heads in like MMA fighters?



Oh boy. You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I am looking forward to your responses.

How good can you protect your head from punch? Can you defend yourself against at least 20 full speed, full power head shots?

IMO, if you have confidence to protect your head, you will have more confidence in the street fight.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

I used to practice shotokan but never used it im doing kenpo now and i never used it yet.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Shotokan emphasizes form and technique execution, and does a good job at these helpful skills. The history of Shotokan is that it evolved from the public school system stressing these skills, physical fitness and sport. The result is (generally speaking) the close-in and more dangerous "dirty" fighting techniques have not been emphasized.

If you are at a Shotokan dojo, it is likely you will need supplement their teaching with these types of techniques to get the "street fighting" ability you may be looking for. Some grabbing and twisting skills, too. Head bashing kumite is not needed to develop these skills - just good instruction and effective two-man drills with resistance.

Good luck in your continuing martial art training.

 

[Deleted member 48484]

you possibly need to do the other fitness things as well, then at least you may go some way to matching the physical conditioning of a trained fighter, karate training seldom reproduces the fitness required by a full contact fighter, as they are not producing full contact fighters

, rather they seem to collect middle aged men trying to compensate for there lack of conditioning by learning techniques they cant use effectively as they lack the conditioning to do so

Yeah I do that anyway, I train everyday and have a routine workout for every morning. Fitness is not the issue.

Helps me a lot with my martial arts as your body is just much more prepared for it due the fitness.

How good can you protect your head from punch? Can you defend yourself against at least 20 full speed, full power head shots?

IMO, if you have confidence to protect your head, you will have more confidence in the street fight.

Quite well due my boxing and kickboxing background, but in Karate the cover usually feels quite unnatural even though during kumite we put our hands up.

Shotokan emphasizes form and technique execution, and does a good job at these helpful skills. The history of Shotokan is that it evolved from the public school system stressing these skills, physical fitness and sport. The result is (generally speaking) the close-in and more dangerous "dirty" fighting techniques have not been emphasized.

If you are at a Shotokan dojo, it is likely you will need supplement their teaching with these types of techniques to get the "street fighting" ability you may be looking for. Some grabbing and twisting skills, too. Head bashing kumite is not needed to develop these skills - just good instruction and effective two-man drills with resistance.

Good luck in your continuing martial art training.

I think you are right about that one, I thought about taking Jiu-Jitsu classes as well, but this will be out of my pay scale and I would not manage it time-wise.

Leave the forum policing to the mods. If you think I've broken any rules feel free to report my post, but I'm certainly not going to let you tell me how I'm allowed to post, brand new person..

And

Bash their heads in like MMA fighters?



Oh boy. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Ah now I understand. You can't handle that someone new does not agree with you? I might be new at the forums but I am not new at martial arts. Please focus on what people say and not on some forum rank on who wrote the most posts. lol.

You started with the MMA fighter thing not me, to claim I have no clue is pretty contra-productive, immature and rude, do you always act like this when you haven't got any arguments ready for use ?
I am glad not all " veteran forum users " act like you do, look at the latest replies, maybe you learn from people on here how to respectfully reply to a post and not keep trying to get your will by throwing a temper tantrum and insulting other users.

Cheers mate, welcome on my ignore list (if this forum has something like that).

 

[Martial D]

Ah now I understand. You can't handle that someone new does not agree with you? I might be new at the forums but I am not new at martial arts. Please focus on what people say and not on some forum rank on who wrote the most posts. lol.

You started with the MMA fighter thing not me, to claim I have no clue is pretty contra-productive, immature and rude, do you always act like this when you haven't got any arguments ready for use ?
I am glad not all " veteran forum users " act like you do, look at the latest replies, maybe you learn from people on here how to respectfully reply to a post and not keep trying to get your will by throwing a temper tantrum and insulting other users.

Cheers mate, welcome on my ignore list (if this forum has something like that).

Actually you don't seem to get it at all. You come in here on your very first post trying to police how other users can post, disrespectfully refer to MMA training as 'bashing each other's heads in', and then try to frame yourself as a victim about it?

Seriously. Get over yourself.