Robber takes on martial artist (video)

[MJS]

I'd say in this case, you could subdue him until the police arrived or the situation changes.

Sure, thats an option.

Thing is, you guys are adding a lot of fiction to a nonfiction story. If you are inventing a hypothetical, then more power to you. But you guys don't know the whole story here. What we do know is that in this situation, as with the other two I linked, it worked. In real life.

IMHO, I dont think that i'm adding in alot of fiction. I think that i'm adding in alot of very real possibilities. I hope Steve, that since you're a BJJ guy, that you dont think that I'm slamming the art. I think you know me better than that, from my past posts. In this situation...sure, it worked out for the guy. However, IMO, I wouldn't go so far to say that because "A" worked in situation 1, that "A" will work in situations 2, 3, and 4. It may..it may not.

 

[Buka]

I think we all need to remember two things. This was real life, and it worked.

Seems like there's a lot of going back and talking about shouldas and couldas, but this was a real self defense situation and while a lot of things could have happened, they didn't.

Ya, but Steve, you're not taking into consideration style points. Or fashion. Just outcome. How droll.

 

[Steve]

Sure, thats an option.



IMHO, I dont think that i'm adding in alot of fiction. I think that i'm adding in alot of very real possibilities. I hope Steve, that since you're a BJJ guy, that you dont think that I'm slamming the art. I think you know me better than that, from my past posts. In this situation...sure, it worked out for the guy. However, IMO, I wouldn't go so far to say that because "A" worked in situation 1, that "A" will work in situations 2, 3, and 4. It may..it may not.

Not at all. Don't worry. I'm not going to suggest that rolling on the ground is the best option in every case. I'm really just saying that you guys are filling in blanks in a way that supports your position. We don't know what was happening off camera. We don't know what was being said. We don't know what they knew, or who they know for that matter. All we know from this is that in some cases, grappling works just fine for self defense because we've seen it work... At least three times. That is all.




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[chinto]

The thing is, I think most people's natural reaction when on the ground getting pounded would be to cover their face so that they aren't stomped, Thereby limiting the area in which the kick can come. And a front kick to the head has a lot less power as opposed to a stomp.

Honestly though, with the skull being the harded bone in the body, I just don't see how a single kick can be that deadly when people suffer way worse injuries ( car crashes, conking their head on very hard objects, plane crashes, getting hit in the face with speeding baseballs, elbows straight to the face, repeated multiple hard punches from trained boxers, even bullets....BULLETS ).

that is why we do things called scoop and run with some of them. its also why we use a thomas stiff neck brace and do neurological checks. if they are not normal its a scoop and run ! Bullets are a specific type of wound. GSW's to the head are depending on weapon and bore and wound location and wound track very much non survivable. with extremely definitive care some of them are. again depending on the round and things.

hate to tell you this but the skull brakes much easier then the Femur!

That said a kick to the side or back of the head with a heavy hard boot, not a soft boxing glove, is going to cause a closed head injury. that requires definitive care. a broken neck is not impossible either, but just the blunt trauma to the back of the head or side of the head is very serious. there are other targets such as the kidneys. I have a cousin who did 3 weeks in the hospital after falling off a motorcycle doing all of 4 miles an hour onto a small rock. I was there, saw it. it damaged the kidney enough to require that kind of treatment. I assure you you can kick some one harder then he fell. ( perfect angle fluke thing.. partly but the impact was a lot less then I can kick.) My point is that you do not want to be on the ground with the opponent in the street if you can help it, mainly because they usually have friends there that will decide to join in.

Oh if you wonder about head injury's go ask your friendly neighborhood ER doctor, or neurosurgeon about a good hard kick with a heavy hard boot and things like basil skull fractures and closed head injury's.

 

[Steve]

that is why we do things called scoop and run with some of them. its also why we use a thomas stiff neck brace and do neurological checks. if they are not normal its a scoop and run ! Bullets are a specific type of wound. GSW's to the head are depending on weapon and bore and wound location and wound track very much non survivable. with extremely definitive care some of them are. again depending on the round and things.

hate to tell you this but the skull brakes much easier then the Femur!

That said a kick to the side or back of the head with a heavy hard boot, not a soft boxing glove, is going to cause a closed head injury. that requires definitive care. a broken neck is not impossible either, but just the blunt trauma to the back of the head or side of the head is very serious. there are other targets such as the kidneys. I have a cousin who did 3 weeks in the hospital after falling off a motorcycle doing all of 4 miles an hour onto a small rock. I was there, saw it. it damaged the kidney enough to require that kind of treatment. I assure you you can kick some one harder then he fell. ( perfect angle fluke thing.. partly but the impact was a lot less then I can kick.) My point is that you do not want to be on the ground with the opponent in the street if you can help it, mainly because they usually have friends there that will decide to join in.

Oh if you wonder about head injury's go ask your friendly neighborhood ER doctor, or neurosurgeon about a good hard kick with a heavy hard boot and things like basil skull fractures and closed head injury's.

do you think it's possible that as some one who works in a medical field, you're anecdotal wxperience is a little skewed? Sort of like asking a street level narcotics officer about drug use...

Point being that every boot kick you see is, by definition, serious enough to result in trauma. But you don't see every blow to the head... Only the ones that end up in the ER or a 911 call. The same is even more true for specialists, like an ER doctor. While they are certainly more than qualified to share what could happen, I'm not sure they are at all reliable to share what is likely to happen. Hope the distinction makes sense.

I asked earlier for some more objective, statistical evidence and I don't think you ever shared any. If I didn't, I'd welcome it now.

To be clear, I'm open to being proven wrong, but we're operating on anecdotal evidence now, and I've seen way too many serious blows to the head that didn't result in death or disfigurement.



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[Carol]

There have been a lot of people coming home from Afghanistan with a TBI. I went googling for statistics and found this:

About 1.4 million people suffer a TBI each year in the United States. Of those, 50,000 die, 235,000 are hospitalized, and 1.1 million are treated and released at an emergency room.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/magazine/issues/fall08/articles/fall08pg2-7.html
www.mentalhealth.va.gov/docs/[B]tbi[/B].pdf

 

[chinto]

yep steve we do tend to see the worse end of the scale. that is true.. the other factor is a lot of people will kick more then once with that heavy boot... and one is more then bad enough.

 

[Kenlee25]

Where do yo live Chinto? lol you keep mentioning these boots and I'm really curious as to what area of the world has such a large population of heavy cowboy boot ( not even regular boots, but heavy cowboy boot ) wearing individuals.

 

[Steve]

yep steve we do tend to see the worse end of the scale. that is true.. the other factor is a lot of people will kick more then once with that heavy boot... and one is more then bad enough.

I'd still be very interested in some objective information on this. As I said, my theory is that your opinion is a little on the skewed side, fed by both your desire to support a preconceived notion and the anecdotal evidence you see every day through the course of your job. By definition, you see only those boot stomps to the head that are severe enough to result in a call to 911 or a trip to the ER. You don't, however, see every boot stomp. And I can't believe that even you, in the course of your job, see THAT many. I mean, I can imagine parts of Montana or Texas where guys wear cowboy boots regularly, but I can't imagine anyplace rowdy enough that stomping people's heads is an everyday occurrence.

The only actual information I've seen so far is what Carol posted, and it supports the idea that, while potentially very serious, people routinely survive.

 

[Nick Stanovic]

The attacker and the defender could've acted differently but they didn't. We can create an attacker/defender scenario out of thin air and forum posters could give unlimited possibilities for attacks/counterattacks/defenses but few are addressing what actually happened in the video. How does everyone magically know the outcome if the attackers and the defender acted differently and create your own stories? Theoretical situations like "What if friend had (gun/knife/steel-toed boots) and put the defender in the hospital?!" or a Art vs Art debate on which art would've handled the situation best.

The situations were handled. The quarterback you're watching on TV could've picked a different receiver or reacted differently to the defense than he did but changing one variable doesn't mean other variables are forced to remain the same as well. I say good job to those Martial Artists captured on camera for successfully defending themselves and bystanders.