Religion in the Dojang-dojo

[terryl965]

How does everybody feel about religion inseide the school during the holiday. FOR_ AGAINST_DON'T CARE.
You see it really does not brother me or for the most parts my students and there parent but a new student parent ask tonight if we would give prayer before Thanksgiving and Christmas and I really had no reply for them and said I would have to see.
Terry

 

[Jonathan Randall]

How does everybody feel about religion inseide the school during the holiday. FOR_ AGAINST_DON'T CARE.
You see it really does not brother me or for the most parts my students and there parent but a new student parent ask tonight if we would give prayer before Thanksgiving and Christmas and I really had no reply for them and said I would have to see.
Terry

Hard question. If the majority of your students are of the same faith, I don't see why an optional prayer outside of class hours would hurt. Any students of a different faith, though, must be given the same opportunity, IMO, though. Personally, I would prefer to leave both politics and religion out of the dojang - excepting cases where the training is part of a ministry or church outreach.

 

[Gary Crawford]

I see nothing wrong with a prayer for Christmas and thanksgiving. Even if there are people of different religions attending class. They should respect that we(americans) are mostly prodestant and should in no way be offended as long as it's not a regular thing done in every class. It is a special occasion that most americans embrace. No one can escape it in day to day life even if they wanted to.

 

[arnisador]

Decorations? Saying "Happy Holidays?" Sure. More than that? Only if you're a religious school, like a Christian Karate school (of which many exist).

 

[terryl965]

Decorations? Saying "Happy Holidays?" Sure. More than that? Only if you're a religious school, like a Christian Karate school (of which many exist).

No not a chridtian Karate club as some know I'm Jewish and my wife is Catholic, so we try to keep religion out of our instruction. just curious about prayer in general.
Terry

 

[Andrew Green]

Martial Arts schools are private clubs, instructors are free to run them however they like, as long as they are honest about it I don't care.

If Christianity is going to be a part of class, state that up front. And expect your members to reflect that. Personally I would not train at a school where the owner brought religion into the class, but there are probably people that would prefer to train at a place that did.

 

[CrankyDragon]

I myself, am all for it. Society.... thats another question. It might be best to focus on the role of the dojo/dojang, leaving religion to the students rather than the staff, and on there own time. I mean, if you gotta have a prayer before workout, how many times are they gonna pray that day? Doesnt make a lot of sense to me, and Im Baptist.

Id tell them that the school is neutral, and if the kids want to pray than that would be permitted, and if they didnt want to pray, that would also be permitted. Kind of neither support or supress.

Anyway, thats my .02 on it.
Andrew

 

[mantis]

How does everybody feel about religion inseide the school during the holiday. FOR_ AGAINST_DON'T CARE.
You see it really does not brother me or for the most parts my students and there parent but a new student parent ask tonight if we would give prayer before Thanksgiving and Christmas and I really had no reply for them and said I would have to see.
Terry

that's up to you
if ur religious do it
but usually it's wrong to involve religion in an activity like that
it might also offend other students who dont believe, or their parents!
i would stay away from that
good luck

 

[Jonathan Randall]

I see nothing wrong with a prayer for Christmas and thanksgiving. Even if there are people of different religions attending class. They should respect that we(americans) are mostly prodestant and should in no way be offended as long as it's not a regular thing done in every class. It is a special occasion that most americans embrace. No one can escape it in day to day life even if they wanted to.

I personally would not be offended, uncomfortable yes, but not offended if a dojang I attended broke out in song "Oh, what a friend we have in Jesus..." or began a public prayer. However, a dojang, unless it makes clear that it is specifically a Christian run school with its own ministry, is NOT a church. True, to do so or not to do so is the owner's right. It is also my right not to continue paying dues and attending. This is no attack on Christianity or religious rights, simply that an organized prayer in a commercial setting, IMO, is inappropriate. Once or twice personally would not be enough to make me jump ship, but a habitual occurence probably would.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Id tell them that the school is neutral, and if the kids want to pray than that would be permitted, and if they didnt want to pray, that would also be permitted. Kind of neither support or supress.

Anyway, thats my .02 on it.
Andrew

That sounds like the best solution to me.

 

[CrankyDragon]

That sounds like the best solution to me.

Why, thank you sir! Once every 3 or 4 years I come up with at least 1 good idea!

 

[MJS]

I don't see anything wrong with it. I can see how it may cause problems with some, considering this seems to be an issue everywhere we look. A silent prayer around the Holiday time never hurt anyone.

Mike

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

I dunno...a couple of minutes for meditation would provide anyone with an opportunity to petition the diety, or not, if they choose. Who does it hurt, anyway?

 

[Adept]

It's up to each and every person, I believe. If someone asked me to say a prayer in class before training, I would say no. It's not my religion, nor would it be the religion of all the students in the class. Those who feel so inclined can pray themselves before training begins, and that way everyone is happy.

 

[Phoenix44]

Well, I'm a Jew, and I've found that once people talk about praying, they're generally not talking about my religion. I prefer not to be in that situation, and I would prefer prayers be kept to the privacy of one's home or place of worship.

However, since a dojo is a private business, the owner can do whatever s/he wants, and I have no basis to complain. I can stay or I can leave.

Our dojo has a holiday party. Sometimes the kids discuss their religious practices, but there is no prayer.

 

[Grenadier]

Private dojo = their choice.

Things like this should be kept to a minimum, but a little prayer doesn't hurt, and if someone does not wish to be included in the prayer, then I respect the decision. I will never try to prod someone into joining in a prayer, since each man is free to choose his own beliefs, and it's not my duty to recruit for my faith. I'm there as an instructor, and not as a headhunter (in a recruitment sense; I'll still kick people's heads in kumite).

 

[Navarre]

This has been fairly well covered I guess. If the dojo is privately run then, like any business, the owner can teach as he/she sees fit.

Still, if it has never been done before then it must have never been something the instructor found important. Therefore, if the sensei does it at the parent's request it really seems to be more for their benefit than that of the dojo.

We often find ourselves feeling guilty in such situations; like we are heretics or something if we refuse to show religious conviction on request. I don't agree with that sentiment.

I would instead very respectfully address the parent's request but maintain that the dojo is non-denominational and designed to promote inner spirit and personal development, not religious faith. I would have no problem allowing students to convene before or after class to gather in prayer if they chose.

If their faith sustains them and compels them in a direction harmonious with the teachings of The Art then there is no conflict. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive but they aren't necessarily inextricably bound together either.

 

[Andrew Green]

Well, I'm a Jew, and I've found that once people talk about praying, they're generally not talking about my religion.

Yep, people that support prayer in everything are generally Christian, and only mean Christian Prayer.

But I have to wonder how many of the people determined to express their religion when in the position of a teacher, instructor, coach or any leadership opinion would feel about sending their kids to a class with a athiest instructor that liked to express his views...

 

[chinto01]

Holiday decorations are fine but I am hesitant in crossing the line with praying at the dojo. I do not feel that it is my place to push my religious beliefs on others and I feel that by having a prayer before, during, or after class is doing this. Religion is the fuel of the masses and I do not want to ignite that fire. It may also make some people very uncomfortable especially if you just pull it out of your hat all of a sudden.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[Ping898]

I dunno...a couple of minutes for meditation would provide anyone with an opportunity to petition the diety, or not, if they choose. Who does it hurt, anyway?

They are not talking meditation though, they are talking prayer which personally I see as two different things.
IMHO I think that unless you are specifically a religous school you shouldn't do prayer, but I see nothing wrong with having a few moments of meditation, say as a calming thing before the hectic holiday season and allowing people to think about what they want, whether it be a prayer or just a few moments of calming breathing.....