Dojo / Dojang and religious symbols

[white belt]

I am a school owner and teacher and have been presented with a bit of an annoying problem. I'm sure some of you have heard about France and California with the controversy over Muslim headscarves. Today it became a potential problem in my Dojang.

A Muslim father has been bringing his two elementary school sons to me for about two years for lessons with my kids group. They are nice people and both parents have expressed gratitude to me several times about my sense of fairplay while teaching their children. Today the father shared with me that he would like his wife to join in the lessons. I have a few of the other parents training with their kids and it has worked out really well. He asked me if her (mom) wearing her Muslim headscarf, while training in the Dojang with the others, would be a problem. I replied that religious icons or symbols of any kind, that were conspicuous, were not allowed so as not to distract or detract from the training environment.

I told him (Muslim dad) the story of another potential student whose mother forbid her from bowing to the U.S. flag due to her Christian beliefs. The mom asked if that would be a problem and I said "yes". I explained there was no religious conotation behind it and that it was a show of respect and nothing more. She refused to allow her daughter to do as I require each of the other students to do and I explained that favortism is not allowed in my Dojang. I then reccommended a reputable Christian M.A. school in the area and she left in a fit of anger.

The Muslim father listened but, he said he had some thinking to do and left. I understand the potential for a lawsuit here and all. Any constructive thoughts on my situation?

white belt

 

[bignick]

i think you did the right thing...obviously you didn't do this out of any sort of religious discrimination...outside distractions should not be allowed in the dojang..whether or not a headscarf is distracting is up to debate...but obviously you felt it was and you were upfront and honest about it...

i feel you have very little to fear from a lawsuit...you are a private organization and have a right to refuse admittance to anyone you choose for any reason...may i suggest talking with some of the other reputable instructors in your area and if one of them will allow the headscarf in class, recommend the family to that school...or perhaps you have or could pursue starting an all woman's class...maybe that would be a more acceptable situation in which to practice without a headscarf

 

[Rob Broad]

Is there any chance of the headscarf interfering with her training, or being a safety issue in her training. The headscarf is more than just a religous symbol , to many it is a cultural symbol, just like the American Flag. If the headscarf is not a safety issue, thn I would accept it. If you think it might be a problem for other students, you could always suggest private lessons for the family.

 

[terryl965]

Well as far as a lawsuit is concern, there is not one. As a business you have the right to refuse service to anybody(bottom line). As far as a school though you have to respect ones cultures the head garment is not religous it is culture of there country. I have a mother who will wear hers and she competes in tourneys and understands that each tourament may have there own set of rules for this stituation. When she sparrs she goes to the restroom and take off her garment and put on her headgear never takes it off on the floor the headgear because she must have her head cover at all time while she is outside of there house. Hopes this helps,good luck with the family and GOD BLESS AMERICA

 

[AaronLucia]

Um...when in Rome, do as the Romans.

Although ultimately, you must always remember that you will bear the consequences of your actions, good or bad.

 

[OC Kid]

We have a written school policy about wearing items such as watches ect. Do you have a written policy???? If not you should.

 

[Sin]

I understand this problem very much.....I being a STRONG beliver in the constatution i belive she has the right to wear her head scarf...now on the other hand..you also can refuse service. Your best bet is to call it a safety issue or make it a policy to wear certain things to the Dojo.
doing something like martial arts requires you to follow your teachers ways. Maybe not to a personal sense but to a INSTINCTIVE FIGHTERS sense. what you learn from your teacher will help you one day. If it means taking a punch to the gut and standing still wile it happens...so be it......50 push ups...so be it.....following dress code in the dojo it must be done...the Dojo is for training, NOT for praying. Martial Arts is not about your belive structer its all about how you react.
But please everyone keep an open mind and an open heart to the many differant cultures found in he USA, because thats what America is all about.

 

[Shurikan]

We say prayer before each class, those who do not believe in prayer are just silent. The only jewelry allowed in class is a wedding ring, because there are some things that are more important to individuals then for the saftey of the class. I personally would not have a problem with the headscarf for a couple of reasons. 1) you might call it a distraction but your students probably could use a few of those hate to see them get in a confrontation on the street and get distracted by there opponent cause they wore a scarf or hat. 2) the respect that you want for your dojang (THIS ONLY MY OPIONION) should be returned to each student training there. The request for head scarf is not so they look cool or some gang clothing or anything it is there way of life.

In short i support any decision a school owner makes for there own school, But i would have no problem with your school or any other if a student wore there cultural scarf to class.

 

[Flatlander]

Clealy, this is a safety issue. How serious is she, really, about self defense and H2h combat? Ultimately, she's there for training, not socializing. You MUST stick to your guns here and make no exceptions. The very second that you do, you've opened the door for whatever other 'personal' issues may come along.

Best of luck to you, sir.

 

[Spud]

[font=&quot]I respect your consistency and her spiritual needs, but it is your school and your rules. Can you simply adopt a policy on what attire/behavior is allowed/required on the mat? Approved gi, belt, school or plain shirts, specific limits on jewelry and head wear. Bowing to the flags, classmates, and instructors, turning away from the instructor or flags to adjust your uniform, how you address each other on the mat – the basics of your school etiquette. Then it is simply in black and white and not you having to justify calls on a case-by-case basis. And it also helps the newer belts figure out what is going on and why this guy is calling me mister[/font]

 

[Aaron Little]

Any thing someone wears in class is fair game to be used against them in sparring. I am sure there are a lot of great options for chokes that could take advantage of just such a headscarf.

In all actuality if it is something that she wears everyday, which of course it is, she needs to know the limitations it places on her ability to protect herself.

 

[white belt]

Thank you all for your insightful responses. I had one Christian gentlemen a few years ago say that he liked my school but, "didn't want his boy learning about the Yin Yang" on the S. Korean flag. He insisted that it was a symbol of the devil. I let that one keep shopping.

I half expect to be presented with some form of litigation based on discrimination by my students father concerning the scarf. There are a couple of students that right away would sew on "Jesus Saves" patches or some other such thing based on her precedent. I would then have no leg to stand on to defend anyone participating in their cultural / religious expressions from what I can see thus far. That could destroy the business end of things very quickly. I can't allow an environment of non-friendly confrontation in a facility where I pay the insurance premiums either.

Keep the thoughts coming.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

white belt - I think you did the right thing, in both situations you describe. The fact that you have a no-expections policy makes things more simple and easier for you, I think. It also lets the person or people asking about your policies know that you are trying to be fair to everyone.

I hope this woman will come train with you. Although perhaps she can take off her headscarf in a women-only environment? I think it indeed would pose a safety issue.

 

[Mark Weiser]

In starting a school you MUST have it as netural as possible. That means only allow the following in the Dojo.

• Uniform(color/weight/size/style)
• Patches(school Patch, National Flag, Martial Art Symbol or Flag0
• Belt(color/sytle, length, how to wear the knot)
• Shoes( Shoes while in Dojo and whetever allowed on the Mat)
• Appearence(Haircuts or Neatly kept ,trimmed nails, Clean Uniform and Body, Body Odor control, Hygenie)

Just to give an example. In this day and age unless you have by laws addressing these issues you are open to a lawsuit. And if you run into a probelm not covered. I suggest doing an ammendment to your bylaws and explain the reason.

 

[Zepp]

Hiya white belt, it's good to see you around here again.

From a completely non-legal standpoint, I believe you're being unfair to the woman in question. A headscarf is not an overt religious symbol the way a "Jesus Saves" patch obviously is. The woman wears it because she believes that is what God wants her to do. It's not intended to make a statement of any kind. It's comparable to a religious Jewish man wearing a yamoulke everywhere. (I assume you would also disallow this in your dojang).

Unless you honestly believe there is a safety issue here, I think you should consider refining your policy to only exclude apparel of an overtly religious nature.

 

[Tydive]

A compromise idea. How about her wearing some kind of skull cap? I am thinking of something like those swim caps women wear while swimming, only of a lighter material. That way she is covered and you don't have to worry about the safety issues of the head scarf...

 

[jwreck]

In the Dojang I used to train in, there were several women that wore head-scarves. It was no big deal to anyone. I don't see why it should even be an issue. It would be about the same as someone wearing a head band or bandana to keep their hair up.

 

[white belt]

Thanks again for the thoughts. To clarify I don't feel it is a safety issue concerning her field of vision being compromised. I am more concerned from the standpoint of someone being overtly demonstrative or being taken as such by others who are more private with their beliefs. Then I may have fertile ground for bad circumstances not anticipated. It goes without saying that the places that we train can sometimes breed or appear to breed favortism.

I have heard a story from two sources concerning a hospital staff worker who was eating pork in the hospital cafeteria and a coworker reported this to their superiors as an affront to her Muslim faith. The management let it go and the Muslim woman turned and successfully sued the hospital on some type of religious intolerance charge. The hospital then turned around and fired the woman who started this by eating her ham sandwich! Appeals are pending last I heard.

I admit having mixed feelings (concerning the scarf) on an emotional level having worked with the children of the family for so long. They had confidence problems dealing with self esteem. They are now realizing they have as much potential as anyone from any other culture. I guess this is the real bug in my head. Justified or not I don't like this circumstance for more reasons than I first realized before starting this thread.

The variety of opinions offered here has broadened my perspective though. I will just have to take it on the chin in some way.

Thanks.

 

[Aaron Little]

You expressed above a concern that if this particular student were allowed to wear the headscarf other students might want to have “Jesus Saves” patches on their uniforms.

As the issue is one of religious expression and not of safety I pose the following question:

What would be the policy for a prospective student with “Jesus Saves” tattooed on his neck?

 

[white belt]

A fixture instead of an adornment question. Tattoos are a whole other can of worms. Religious ones in conspicuous places could cause problems as well I suppose. Good question. Right now I am looking for less questions and more answers. I'm torn enough over items worn. Mike Tyson or Kimo type tattoos are an invitation to trouble IMO. I would let someone decorated in that fashion look elsewhere. Kids are easily influenced and body art limits future career prospects if too conspicuous. I had one guy coming in that was involved in special effects makeup. He thought it was entertaining to wear contact lenses that looked like real snake eyes and then stare down his sparring partner. I had to tell him to knock it off and take his hobby outside of the training hall amusing or not.

I have a particular religious viewpoint that I don't share with my students. It doesn't matter concerning my goals for them. The tattoo thing is a tough one. Christian or not I would hope for more conservative discretion in my training hall.

Thanks (?)