Except dried blood is brown...Red with the dried blood of vanquished foes?
Red is the New Black
- Thread starter Kyoshi71
- Start date
I think that it's just another way for some folks to make themselves feel good about themselves. A 7th Dan friend (who has his students call him "sensei" not Shihan) put it this way.
"A lot of these guys who insist on being called master, GM, soke, etc. have lousy full time jobs & a few ex-wives. They don't get a lot of respect in the rest of the world, so they build themselves up in the dojo."
Whether they have ex-wives or not, his idea rings true in a lot of cases.
"A lot of these guys who insist on being called master, GM, soke, etc. have lousy full time jobs & a few ex-wives. They don't get a lot of respect in the rest of the world, so they build themselves up in the dojo."
Whether they have ex-wives or not, his idea rings true in a lot of cases.
Cirdan
Senior Master
Except dried blood is brown...
Sokes flip out and kill all the time so naturally there will be fresh blood.
Q: How many sokes does it take to change a light bulb?
A: None. The numerous flashing LED stripes on their belt provides plenty of light.
And of course a lot of these guys use the titles improperly. For example, in Japanese, it's not correct to call yourself Sensei. It's a term of respect others use to refer to you. It's kind of like calling someone Sir in English (assuming of course that they aren't a knight
).Brandon Fisher
Master Black Belt
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2006
- Messages
- 1,093
- Reaction score
- 13
I have a certificate that says Soke on it because of me being the head of my system and another thats states I am a soke on their website. However it doesn't mean anything to me my students know me me as Sensei and thats it. Most of them may not even know my dan rank because I don't talk about it let alone flaunt it.
The title of Soke equals head of family not founder, grandmaster, or any other thing many claim it means. It is overused and way under appreciated. Even Hanshi Nakamoto Kiichi who said he holds a soke title said its not a big deal. His Hanshi level teaching certificate meant more to him. But his students only know him as sensei.
My view of a grandmaster is 10th Dan and head of a organization. Everyone else may hold teaching menkyo (Renshi, Kyoshi, Hanshi) even if they are a 8th, 9th or 10th Dan.
I was thrilled to find out that Nitta Sensei was going to certify my rank as Rokudan. That made me feel like I had achieved something. But my ego will not allow me to boast about title and rank. Its not the way its supposed to be. Humility is supposed to be part of the training, and many times its not. Red belts and red & white belts don't bother me if the person wearing them has earned them. Even though I have a red and white belt I prefer my old black belt over any and my newer black belt to preserve the use of my old one.
The title of Soke equals head of family not founder, grandmaster, or any other thing many claim it means. It is overused and way under appreciated. Even Hanshi Nakamoto Kiichi who said he holds a soke title said its not a big deal. His Hanshi level teaching certificate meant more to him. But his students only know him as sensei.
My view of a grandmaster is 10th Dan and head of a organization. Everyone else may hold teaching menkyo (Renshi, Kyoshi, Hanshi) even if they are a 8th, 9th or 10th Dan.
I was thrilled to find out that Nitta Sensei was going to certify my rank as Rokudan. That made me feel like I had achieved something. But my ego will not allow me to boast about title and rank. Its not the way its supposed to be. Humility is supposed to be part of the training, and many times its not. Red belts and red & white belts don't bother me if the person wearing them has earned them. Even though I have a red and white belt I prefer my old black belt over any and my newer black belt to preserve the use of my old one.
I agree with him, nothing puts a bad taste in my mouth like a "master" that has his students running around, snapping too everytime he talks or walks in, having everyone refer to him as "sir" or "master" and expecting students to drop everything when he needs hands for some renevation work or something.
Instructors have a nasty trap, it's easy to get absorbed in that "power" and let the ego take over judgement.
Of course it's all done in the name of "teaching humility" and being "humble" and the instructor often has a indirect way of enforcing this, perhaps using a junior instructor to enforce these "expectations" so as not to break with his image too badly.
The people I train with call me "Andrew", and sometimes less pleasant things
kidswarrior
Senior Master
OP
Kyoshi71
Yellow Belt
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2006
- Messages
- 53
- Reaction score
- 0
- Thread Starter
- #29
Dude, you're 31 years old and have been training at a local recreation center for 21 years. You hold the title of Soke, the rank of Rokudan and was promoted to Shodan in 1995. That's a Dan grade every year and a half since 1st black. Unfortunately...You're one of the dudes I'm refering to when I started this thread! Sorry!
Traditionally speaking, AFAIK the head of a family might not be ancient.
From MartialPedia
Soke
From MartialTalk Online Martial Arts Encyclopedia Project
Soke (??, soke) is a Japanese title that means "Headmaster" (or sometimes translated as "Head of the Family" or even "Grand Master"; the latter usage is a common Western misconception). It can mean one who is the leader of any school or the master of a style, but it is most commonly used as a highest level Japanese martial arts title, referring to the singular leader of a school or style of martial art.
The word 'soke' has several meanings:
* may refer to an early Western jurisdictional concept.
* is also the romaji for a Japanese term meaning "head master of a style" (especially a style of martial arts)
Soke is sometimes mistakenly believed to mean "Founder of a style" because many modern self-proclaimed "Soke" are the first generation headmasters of their art (Shodai soke), and are thus both Soke and founder. However, the successors to the Shodai Soke are also Soke themselves. Soke are generally considered the ultimate authority within their art, and have final discretion and authority regarding promotions, curriculum, doctrine, and disciplinary actions. A Soke has the authority to issue a menkyo kaiden certificate indicating that someone has mastered all aspects of his style.
From MartialPedia
Soke
From MartialTalk Online Martial Arts Encyclopedia Project
Soke (??, soke) is a Japanese title that means "Headmaster" (or sometimes translated as "Head of the Family" or even "Grand Master"; the latter usage is a common Western misconception). It can mean one who is the leader of any school or the master of a style, but it is most commonly used as a highest level Japanese martial arts title, referring to the singular leader of a school or style of martial art.
The word 'soke' has several meanings:
* may refer to an early Western jurisdictional concept.
* is also the romaji for a Japanese term meaning "head master of a style" (especially a style of martial arts)
Soke is sometimes mistakenly believed to mean "Founder of a style" because many modern self-proclaimed "Soke" are the first generation headmasters of their art (Shodai soke), and are thus both Soke and founder. However, the successors to the Shodai Soke are also Soke themselves. Soke are generally considered the ultimate authority within their art, and have final discretion and authority regarding promotions, curriculum, doctrine, and disciplinary actions. A Soke has the authority to issue a menkyo kaiden certificate indicating that someone has mastered all aspects of his style.
Brandon Fisher
Master Black Belt
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2006
- Messages
- 1,093
- Reaction score
- 13
Kyoshi,
I began training in 1984 (thats 23 years this year) and have literally put more than 25 hours of training in per week for the past 15 years. I would say sometimes you have to no generalize everything and just assume what someone has done. Again the title means NOTHING to me at all I did not feel the timing was right or anywhere near right.
By the way whats your background, how long have you been training? All your profile yes is you hold Yondan Renshi.
I began training in 1984 (thats 23 years this year) and have literally put more than 25 hours of training in per week for the past 15 years. I would say sometimes you have to no generalize everything and just assume what someone has done. Again the title means NOTHING to me at all I did not feel the timing was right or anywhere near right.
By the way whats your background, how long have you been training? All your profile yes is you hold Yondan Renshi.
Adept
Master Black Belt
Gents,
Lets keep things civil, k?
Danke.
Lets keep things civil, k?
Danke.
Robert Lee
Brown Belt
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2006
- Messages
- 425
- Reaction score
- 11
Belts are important to many, then mean little to others. Soke, head founder it is but a title that some desire Martial arts evolve new styles come and go. I guess more important is did you learn something that was helpful to you. Bruce was in his twenties when he came up with JKD, under twenty when he used the JUN FAN gung fu. Was he after glory not really. Now some want the high rank respect. If they are worthy they will get respect if not pass them by. I have decent rank But care little about it, I know I can still improve still understand more of what I know. Others here I believe are the same. You know what you know and can do what you do. Thats important others with inflated rankings that you do not know or train with let them go on either to become better or forgot about in time. I would not even think of wearing a belt have not for many years. Belts show rank skill proves rank. A white belt can beat many a blackbelt, if the black belt lacks real skill and heart. M / A is about each person there wants there needs. Follow the instructor to learn but be your own person I would learn from a person calling himself soke IF he had something I thought was useful. Heck I would learn from a person wearing only a white belt if he had something I needed. Belts go around the waist. In the mind and the body skill can be found. We can not stop what people do we just have to do what we do.
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2006
- Messages
- 3,692
- Reaction score
- 176
Works for Akuma
