Red is the New Black

[Kyoshi71]

Is anyone as disgusted as I am at how many Soke, Great Grandmaster, Grand Patriarch, Supreme PhD Red Belts Hanshi exist out there now? After some brief websurfing, I'm almost embarrassed for these people because I imagine some true Okinawan Sensei getting web access and laughing at these ridiculous westerners. I know what you're thinking, "Who cares?" But it is important because it reflects our society's level of self-importance, definitely exhibits these individual's need for legitamacy and goes against the true ideals of most martial philosophies.

Any Comments?

 

[Drac]

Is anyone as disgusted as I am at how many Soke, Great Grandmaster, Grand Patriarch, Supreme PhD Red Belts Hanshi exist out there now.Any Comments?

And the list GROWS daily...I lump them together with the "I have a new totally-devistating-easy-to-learn-just released-in-this-country self defense system" advertising..

 

[Andrew Green]

Grades inflate. True in many things.

Nothing has changed, everyone still wants to be at the top of the chain, but the top keeps creeping up because people keep needing to be higher to be at the top.

Boycott the belt system. Just stop wearing belts, stop claiming dan rank. If enough people where to do this, the system would dissapear. Which I would consider a good thing, because beyond black belt it's main purpose seems to be political in nature most of the time anyways.

 

[Kyoshi71]

And the list GROWS daily...I lump them together with the "I have a new totally-devistating-easy-to-learn-just released-in-this-country self defense system" advertising..

Awesome. I would LOVE to see the list or even better, the websites!
From what I understand, you can send away to the "World Sokeship" with a self-adressed stamped envelope and 25 Kellogg's boxtops, and get your custom red belt & plaque in a week!

The other pathetic yet hysterical joke that exists out there now are all these "Halls of Fame." From where they come, I have no idea.

 

[Kyoshi71]

Grades inflate. True in many things.

Nothing has changed, everyone still wants to be at the top of the chain, but the top keeps creeping up because people keep needing to be higher to be at the top.

Boycott the belt system. Just stop wearing belts, stop claiming dan rank. If enough people where to do this, the system would dissapear. Which I would consider a good thing, because beyond black belt it's main purpose seems to be political in nature most of the time anyways.

True wisdom spoken by you.

 

[The Master]

It's as bad as promotion by video.
But, I tend to agree. Most of these clowns are over inflated. Take the failed FMA insstructor who's only test was 1st black who is now a soke, or the 10 art white belt founders, or such numbnuts. There've even been a few "sokedokes" here, the Great Debate forum makes entertaining reading for some of them.

Here's a hint: If you claim to be a soke, you aren't Japanese, and your certificate came from a group of "peers" who watched your "video" and awarded you the title, with or without the "award fee", you might be crop fertilizer.

If you claim to be a grandmaster, but your highest promoted rank was 5th, and your last test was 1st, you might be crop fertilizer.

If you are under 50 years of age, and use any title with supreme, great, or ultimate, you might be crop fertilizer.

If you think I'm impressed when you go on about your 25 black belts in 25 different arts, you might be crop fertilizer.

Belts and ranks. Meaningless outside the system of choice. Who is to say that a 1st degree BB isn't a superior martial artist than the 15th degree pizza deluxe super soke great grandmaster?

For everything else, theres MasterCard!

 

[Drac]

Awesome. I would LOVE to see the list or even better, the websites!
From what I understand, you can send away to the "World Sokeship" with a self-adressed stamped envelope and 25 Kellogg's boxtops, and get your custom red belt & plaque in a week!

The other pathetic yet hysterical joke that exists out there now are all these "Halls of Fame." From where they come, I have no idea.

Pick up a couple of copies of Black Belt a few months apart and flip through them..Check E-Bay, they offer whole systems that include manuals, dvds, charts, your NEW rank and certificate of said rank when your order..

 

[Bob Hubbard]

My sokeship came from the great master Konica and the great master Minolta themselves under the skilled training of my master, Kuni Wakaloha.

It was awarded by a prestegious university, for the hard work I put into developing Kungate.

"Kungate Do International
Kinison Institute of Bujutsu Studies"

I value it highly, worth every bit of the paper it is printed upon, signifying the blood, sweat and beers that have gone into my kungate training. It's authenticity is certified, as anyone who reads Chinese will be able to vouch for.

 

[JBrainard]

Is anyone as disgusted as I am at how many Soke, Great Grandmaster, Grand Patriarch, Supreme PhD Red Belts Hanshi exist out there now? After some brief websurfing, I'm almost embarrassed for these people because I imagine some true Okinawan Sensei getting web access and laughing at these ridiculous westerners. I know what you're thinking, "Who cares?" But it is important because it reflects our society's level of self-importance, definitely exhibits these individual's need for legitamacy and goes against the true ideals of most martial philosophies.

Any Comments?

Everyone on this thread is agreeing with Kyoshi, so I'm going to play Devil's advocate. The belt system started with Judo and only white or black belts were worn. Everyone on this thread who is criticizing the trend of "Red is the New Black" should look at his or her waist. If you are wearing a belt that is any color other than white or black, then you too are conforming to the "society of self-importance."

Questions, comments, complaints?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Hmm....I'm wearing green, but only to keep my robe shut. Otherwise, the only belt I wear came from Walmart.

 

[clfsean]

I wear a red sash, but it's my schools color.

However I'm the eldest (longest term besides old fart) student there so I know where I'm at & everybody who falls under me knows.

Our sifu wears black... sometimes red... sometimes none at all. Again... everybody knows where they stand in the class in relation to him.

As far as the sokey-dokey crowd, I find them amusing at best.

 

[shesulsa]

Everyone on this thread is agreeing with Kyoshi, so I'm going to play Devil's advocate. The belt system started with Judo and only white or black belts were worn. Everyone on this thread who is criticizing the trend of "Red is the New Black" should look at his or her waist. If you are wearing a belt that is any color other than white or black, then you too are conforming to the "society of self-importance."

Questions, comments, complaints?

Oh, let's take it further ...

You didn't "test" for your rank in Judo ... you competed in tournament for your rank in Judo and whatever your teacher deemed you worthy is what you got - SANS CERTIFICATION!!! Talk a little story with an older judoka or two who started learning post WWII and they'll tell you how they trained and how they got their rank and if they're caucasian, they'll likely tell you they didn't get a piece of paper saying they achieved this or that - it just wasn't done.

So all that worrying we do about certification ... what's it worth?

 

[JBrainard]

Hmm....I'm wearing green, but only to keep my robe shut. Otherwise, the only belt I wear came from Walmart.

Then get a robe with a tie string!

I wear a red sash, but it's my schools color.
However I'm the eldest (longest term besides old fart) student there so I know where I'm at & everybody who falls under me knows.
Our sifu wears black... sometimes red... sometimes none at all. Again... everybody knows where they stand in the class in relation to him.
As far as the sokey-dokey crowd, I find them amusing at best.

Exactly why none of this really matters.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Then get a robe with a tie string!



Exactly why none of this really matters.

Tie my Robe - soon a series of exercize/martial arts videos available at LackLuster Video stores, everywhere.

 

[crushing]

Is anyone as disgusted as I am at how many Soke, Great Grandmaster, Grand Patriarch, Supreme PhD Red Belts Hanshi exist out there now? After some brief websurfing, I'm almost embarrassed for these people because I imagine some true Okinawan Sensei getting web access and laughing at these ridiculous westerners. I know what you're thinking, "Who cares?" But it is important because it reflects our society's level of self-importance, definitely exhibits these individual's need for legitamacy and goes against the true ideals of most martial philosophies.

Any Comments?

I don't worry so much about other organizations and how THEY handle THEIR belts. My investment in (not just monetary) and concern for, goes to the organizations to which I belong. If I see a problem with my organizations, then I may voice my concern and see if the practice is fixed or justified. If it isn't to my satisfaction, then it may be time to move on.

Should I ever feel it necessary to move on, then I suppose the belt inflation and practices and politics of other organizations may make it confusing and difficult to find a new home.

 

[JBrainard]

Tie my Robe - soon a series of exercize/martial arts videos available at LackLuster Video stores, everywhere.

:lol:

 

[CuongNhuka]

The other pathetic yet hysterical joke that exists out there now are all these "Halls of Fame." From where they come, I have no idea.

What I love is that you have to pay to be a member of most. That makes me laugh. Although I do (somewhat) agree with Mr. Green said, I do find some what a fault in it. He's saying get rid of belts, but there have always been a form of ranking. Going back to just white and dan rnaks might work, but it could also be counter productive.
Pre-black ranks were created as a form of gauging ones progresion, but is now a tool to find out who is better then who. Going back to the old way could easily reduce these peeing matches. Or it may hamper progress (I don't know were I stand kinda thing).
My thought is unless you've been in martial arts for 30 + years, your not a grand anything. Sokeship (out side of Asian based awards) is just an excuse for ego strokeing. The rest of that crap is just that, crop fertilizer as the master put it.
sae la vie

 

[Kacey]

Belt rank systems, like ranking systems in other areas, were originally created to differentiate between people of different abilities. Over time, other uses/meanings were added: providing intermediate steps that helped break the mass of material into smaller, more manageable chunks, which also aided in consistency/standardization of instruction, providing progress indicators and intermediate goals for students, especially at the lower ranks, where the steps are smaller and faster, and to help people who didn't know each other determine who (probably) knew what when they came together in larger groups.

Like many other organizations that use a rank structure to track progress, the rank structure in many MAs has been subverted to other uses - most notably, and to the dismay of many, the rank inflation seen in many MA organizations. This occurs for many reasons, both good and bad. For me, my rank is simply an expression of my sahbum's faith in my knowledge and abilities, and it is his to bestow or reclaim; my sole interest in rank is that increasing my knowledge and abilities is the only way I can see to repay the time he has spent working on my skills - if he chooses to promote me for having taken advantage of the opportunities he has provided me, that's up to him. Anyone who accepts, receives, applies for, pays for, etc., rank for any other reason is, IMHO, deluding themselves.

 

[Kreth]

How does a red belt tie in with the urban legend of a white belt slowly becoming black from grime over years of training?

 

[zDom]

How does a red belt tie in with the urban legend of a white belt slowly becoming black from grime over years of training?

Red with the dried blood of vanquished foes?