Re No Peace in the Holy Land

[Big Don]

Re No Peace in the Holy Land

[Cliff May]
12-27-08
National Review Online
Excerpt:


It’s no surprise that Israel would launch a new offensive against Hamas. Israeli officials have been warning that they would not sit back indefinitely and let Hamas rain missiles on their citizens. The timing — after Christmas and before Obama is sworn in – make sense.

It’s also no surprise that much of the coverage has ignored the years of missile attacks Israel has endured or treats them as though they are just a minor annoyance: Can’t the Israelis use umbrellas or something?

A CNN piece I saw earlier today made no mention of the missiles until the very end when they quoted from a White House statement calling on Hamas to finally put a stop to the rocket salvos.

Context is also missing from many reports: Israelis left Gaza in 2005 – after years of being told that if they “ended the occupation” the violence would subside. It’s been just the opposite.
END EXCERPT
If one of your neighbors shot at your house at random intervals you wouldn't just take that, would you?

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Re No Peace in the Holy Land

[Cliff May]
12-27-08
National Review Online
Excerpt:


It’s no surprise that Israel would launch a new offensive against Hamas. Israeli officials have been warning that they would not sit back indefinitely and let Hamas rain missiles on their citizens. The timing — after Christmas and before Obama is sworn in – make sense.

It’s also no surprise that much of the coverage has ignored the years of missile attacks Israel has endured or treats them as though they are just a minor annoyance: Can’t the Israelis use umbrellas or something?

A CNN piece I saw earlier today made no mention of the missiles until the very end when they quoted from a White House statement calling on Hamas to finally put a stop to the rocket salvos.

Context is also missing from many reports: Israelis left Gaza in 2005 – after years of being told that if they “ended the occupation” the violence would subside. It’s been just the opposite.
END EXCERPT
If one of your neighbors shot at your house at random intervals you wouldn't just take that, would you?

Well, upon identifying which neighbor was doing the shooting, and if the police failed to immediately act upon it, and since I can't afford to move, and shouldn't have to anyway, I shouldn't be too terribly surprised if at some point in the future the census quietly became one neighbor the less, that's all.


But see, making an entire country disappear, that's next to impossible, however desirable it may be.

 

[Lynne]

Esau and Jacob have been fighting for how long now? 5,000 years?

 

[girlbug2]

I thought that was Isaac and Ishmael.

 

[Lynne]

I thought that was Isaac and Ishmael.

You are right, God made a covenant with Isaac. I have forgotten so much biblical lore in the last few years. I guess it was the two pairs of brothers, Isaac and Ishmael, and Jacob and Esau? Oddly enough, some Jews are descendants of Ishmael. Religious? Jesus was a Palestinean Jew. This all gets so confusing

 

[girlbug2]

In any case, this conflict won't be resolved in our lifetime.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

I'm beginning to wonder if it's been going on so long it's turned into some kind of "genetic memory" thing......

 

[grydth]

In any case, this conflict won't be resolved in our lifetime.

It just may be 'resolved'... and our lifetimes may not be that long.

I think we are going to pay a horrific price for letting Iran become a nuclear power, and for letting them murder and maim thousands of Americans in Iraq with impunity. They will take that as weakness. That's not even counting their bloody hand in world terror for the past quarter century.

Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) doesn't work when you are dealing with a nutty Islamic death cult. We view massive death with horror, Allmadjihad will look at it as glorious martyrdom that brings their cannibal godlet back in a firestorm.

Iran will get the bomb. Iran will use the bomb on Israel, whose last act will be a retaliatory strike. Radiation will do the rest in the region. "Resolved' will mean death in a sea of fused glass and swirling ashes... and if the fruitcakes can get a better missile than the Shishkabob 3, they'll share with us, too.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Hey, it's MY job to be the doom-and-gloomer, dammit!

But you're right.

 

[David Weatherly]

Hey, it's MY job to be the doom-and-gloomer, dammit!

But you're right.

Hey Andy,

You're doing a great job!

 

[Tez3]

Perhaps a few facts rather than Biblical fancies.
Jews and Muslims haven't been fighting each other for centuries let alone thousands of years, they have been at war since the Mufti of Jerusalem a avid admirer and supporter of Adoph Hitler called for Jews to be killed and driven from Palestine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husayni

He made the nazi doctrine against Jews his own and preached it among his clerics who in turn still embrace it and teach it to the Muslim world. Yasser Arafat was his nephew.
Adoph Hitlers book is admired and carried by many Muslim clerics in Gaza.

I can write you many pages on this situation but please don't insult Jews and patronise us ( or Muslims for that matter) by saying we've always been at war and it goes back to the Bible etc. It doesn't it goes back to specific people and specific actions taken by those people who have declared that there will be no peace until every Jew is driven into the sea.

Look at the First World War, it's aftermath as regards the Middle East, the Balfour Declaration and the Nazis in Europe if you want a better understanding of the Middle East.

 

[Tez3]

I'm beginning to wonder if it's been going on so long it's turned into some kind of "genetic memory" thing......

What since 1919? hardly!

 

[Tez3]

You are right, God made a covenant with Isaac. I have forgotten so much biblical lore in the last few years. I guess it was the two pairs of brothers, Isaac and Ishmael, and Jacob and Esau? Oddly enough, some Jews are descendants of Ishmael. Religious? Jesus was a Palestinean Jew. This all gets so confusing

Sorry Lynne the Midlle East situation has nothing to do with this, as I said have a look at the end of the first World War when the Middle East was carved up by the Allies and follow what happened from there.

 

[elder999]

Perhaps a few facts rather than Biblical fancies.
Jews and Muslims haven't been fighting each other for centuries let alone thousands of years, they have been at war since the Mufti of Jerusalem a avid admirer and supporter of Adoph Hitler called for Jews to be killed and driven from Palestine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husayni

He made the nazi doctrine against Jews his own and preached it among his clerics who in turn still embrace it and teach it to the Muslim world. Yasser Arafat was his nephew.
Adoph Hitlers book is admired and carried by many Muslim clerics in Gaza.

I can write you many pages on this situation but please don't insult Jews and patronise us ( or Muslims for that matter) by saying we've always been at war and it goes back to the Bible etc. It doesn't it goes back to specific people and specific actions taken by those people who have declared that there will be no peace until every Jew is driven into the sea.

Look at the First World War, it's aftermath as regards the Middle East, the Balfour Declaration and the Nazis in Europe if you want a better understanding of the Middle East.

I'd rep you if I could. Yours is the only sensible post here. :asian:

 

[Tez3]

I'd rep you if I could. Yours is the only sensible post here. :asian:

Thank you. It diminishes the seriousness of the problem out there if people don't understand what is going on. It's not an ancient Biblical feud going on, there's a situation there thats been brought about by our (US and UK) actions in the past. The UK in particular doesn't have a record to be proud of in that region. Promises were made, empires carved and people left to die, the hatred is modern and the solution needs to be as well. You can't shrug your shoulders and say 'well they've always been fighting' as it's simply not true.

 

[elder999]

, there's a situation there thats been brought about by our (US and UK) actions in the past. The UK in particular doesn't have a record to be proud of in that region. Promises were made, empires carved and people left to die, the hatred is modern and the solution needs to be as well. .

There ya go being sensible , again....:lol:

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Perhaps a few facts rather than Biblical fancies.
Jews and Muslims haven't been fighting each other for centuries let alone thousands of years, they have been at war since the Mufti of Jerusalem a avid admirer and supporter of Adoph Hitler called for Jews to be killed and driven from Palestine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husayni

He made the nazi doctrine against Jews his own and preached it among his clerics who in turn still embrace it and teach it to the Muslim world. Yasser Arafat was his nephew.
Adoph Hitlers book is admired and carried by many Muslim clerics in Gaza.

I can write you many pages on this situation but please don't insult Jews and patronise us ( or Muslims for that matter) by saying we've always been at war and it goes back to the Bible etc. It doesn't it goes back to specific people and specific actions taken by those people who have declared that there will be no peace until every Jew is driven into the sea.

Look at the First World War, it's aftermath as regards the Middle East, the Balfour Declaration and the Nazis in Europe if you want a better understanding of the Middle East.

I too, would rep you as well, also.

 

[Tez3]

I too, would rep you as well, also.

Ta but I'd be happier if you just read up the facts lol! and have a good New Year!

 

[Lynne]

Ta but I'd be happier if you just read up the facts lol! and have a good New Year!

Thanks for the facts, Tez. I was parroting what I'd heard over and over in, well, church (dispensationalists). More brainwashing I suppose.

 

[Tez3]

It's a subject close to my heart, being fair though the Arabs were made a lot of promises that weren't kept.
The whole Middle East situation including Iraq dates back to the end of the First World War, you can't carve up tribal terrorities and make royal families out of some and not others then not expect trouble. It's one reason we need to think ahead in our decisions about what to do now. We can make trouble for our children and grandchildren.

In the 1940s millions of pounds of aid went to the palestinians who had displaced themselves when Israel gained Independance, this was to re locate them in the Bekaa Valley, it didn't happen and the money 'disappeared' leaving the refugee camps as we see them now and with the unrest caused there. the Palestinians were displaced by the israelis, they left their homes after the Arab leadership told them the jews were being driven into the sea and they could take over jewish homes, farms, business etc. As the Jews didn't end up in the sea, they were then left without their homes.

There are more Palestinians killed by Palestinians than are killed by the Israelis.
http://www.btselem.org/english/statistics/casualties_data.asp?Category=23&region=TER

There is a war going on between Hamas and Fatah for power that is claiming many Arab lives.