Re No Peace in the Holy Land

[Ninjamom]

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people in palistine are bad guys

israelis are good guys

People in Iran, North Korea, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela are badguys.
Americans are goodguys.
Let's just nuke all the badguys.


What has kept the US (the sole remaining superpower) from being a world-conquering global dictator is our (overall, for most of us) understanding that there is a fundamental difference between the people of a nation and the governments and dictators that sometimes rule over them.

Perhaps but one persons truth is another lie. Who exactly forced the Arabs out of their homes? the Israelis? no. if you read up you will find it was the Irgun, a terrorist group.

Actually, the forced expulsion was carried out by the Yiftah Brigade of the IDF under command of then-Lt Col Yitzhak Rabin, who wrote about it and admitted as much in the original manuscript of his memoirs. (See, for example, "Making Israel", by Benny Morris, Professor of Middle East history at Ben-Gurion University, Beersheba, Israel. For an eye-opener, scroll down one page and click "Benny Morris" under 'Contents' on the left side to preview his article in this book specifically regarding this incident.)

In 1948 there were far more Arabs than Jews in Israel plus the British army outnumbered the Jews too, they were also arming the Arabs. Many Jews were still in the concentration camp on Cyprus where the British had put them, the British weren't allowing Jewish immigrants into Palestine as it was then.
The Palestinians have brought this on themselves, or rather perhaps the gangsters have brought in on them, Hamas and Fatah are gangsters nor more or less, they have taken huge amounts of money and salted it away for themselves leaving their people to starve and suffer. They've lead the people and others to believe this is all the Israelis fault.

This is all true.

With all that money from the EC and the USA going into Gaza for redevelopment have you not wondered why it's still so poor?

No, I haven't wondered, because I know where all that money went. The tyrants-at-the-top in Fatah and the surrounding Arabic nations have a 'vested interest' in maintaining the miserableness of the Palestinian way of life. Ever wonder why there are still people living in squalid 'refugee camps' 60-some years after the first war? Why haven't these families been assimilated into Israel or any of the surrounding nations?

The Palestinians don't have a chance until they have a properly democratic government, the lies will continue to be told, they believe them themselves of how Israel is the perpetual baddy and others believe them too. they deserve better, sadly I don't think they will ever get it.

True again, and so tragically sad.

 

[Big Don]

Israel did not just attack Gaza. The rockets had been falling for MONTHS, that is called a COUNTERATTACK. You know, SELF DEFENSE.
If there is any question in your mind about who the good guys and bad guys are in this one, you have issues.

 

[Twin Fist]

If there is any question in your mind about who the good guys and bad guys are in this one, you have issues.

quoted for truth

 

[Loki]

Israel did not just attack Gaza. The rockets had been falling for MONTHS, that is called a COUNTERATTACK. You know, SELF DEFENSE.
If there is any question in your mind about who the good guys and bad guys are in this one, you have issues.

Hamas has been launching rockets for months. That makes them the bad guys. But many if not most Palestinian civilians are no more guilty than the poor Israelis in the south getting the rocket fire.

 

[Twin Fist]

wrong again

they ELECTED hamas

the ALLOW hammas to set up rockets in civilian areas

they are not innocent, and you are not correct

why cant they NOT support the terrorist?

why cant they NOT allow them to set up rocket batteries nside thier apartment buildings?

CUZ THEY SUPPORT HAMAS ACTIONS

palistinians = terrorists

i hope the Israeli's kill them all.

 

[Ninjamom]

why cant they NOT support the terrorist?

Q: Why can't North Koreans NOT support the 'Glorious Leader'?
A: Because there's only so much you can do with a gun barrel jammed up against your head.

palistinians = terrorists

This is just racist, bigotted verbal vomit. Please stop spewing it.

 

[elder999]

palistinians = terrorists

i hope the Israeli's kill them all.

On your part perhaps. Twin Fist and others are being realistic. Terrorists are by nature untrustworthy, and yet you suggest negotiation?
When they have broken every ceasefire by shooting rockets into Israel?
Yeah, they deserve what they get.

Ya know, I try to stay out of this particular debate, for a variety of reasons. Stuff like this being one of them. The others being the asbolute intractability of the history-the debate over whether 60 years ago, Arabs were removed, or removed themselves or both. The debate over whether the nation of Israel is a legitimate heir to the millennia of Hebrew kingdoms, or an imperialist, colonial state. Chiefly, though, the debate over U.S. support of Israel, and what it really means. In my cynicism over all this, I could almost believe that Israel is attacking Gaza just to use up hardware, so that they have to buy more from us (with our own money) to support the U.S. economy-that's how crazy making thinking about the situation over there has become for me, and I'd be content to see the entire middle east turned into one big glass parking lot, Arabs, Israelis, and Persians gone. That's not my call, thankfully, and I recognize that it's unreasonable, anyway, so I usually keep that ugly thought to myself. I have friends in Israel, friends here in the U.S. that are Jewish, Arab and Persian, after all.

In any case, sentiments like the ones expressed above can't help but remind me of the Sand Creek massacre, in 1864, when Col. John Chivington led a Colorado militia to kill 400 peaceful Arapahoe and Cheyenne women, elderly and children-the men were almost all off hunting, because they were camped under the American flag, and believed they were at peace. They didn't know that "the only good Indian was a dead Indian." After the massacre, the troops proudly paraded through Denver with scalps and scalped genitalia, to the general acclaim of the crowd. Later, when there was an investigation, Chivington was asked why they had killed children, to which he replied, "nits grow to be lice."

Nice guy, Chivington-a Methodist minister, no less.

So, basically, what I get when things like this are said-and, they're not an uncommon expression- is "the only good Palestinian is a dead Palestinian," this in spite of an Israeli (Loki) who is much closer to the situation than any of us, saying otherwise. In spite of the simple, human fact being that dehumanization of "our enemies" is the first and last step in dehumanizing ourselves.

Nice guys, I'm sure, though, who would say such an ugly thing.

 

[Empty Hands]

they ELECTED hamas

the ALLOW hammas to set up rockets in civilian areas

they are not innocent, and you are not correct

why cant they NOT support the terrorist?

This is, of course, the exact same moral argument made by al Qaeda and their ilk to support the murder of innocent American civilians.

 

[Twin Fist]

Ninja Mom,
The so called palistinians ELECTED HAMMAS, the north Koreans didnt elect Kim Jong Il, so your comparison FAILS

also

since there is no such race as "palistinian" the accusation of racism is ludicrous at best, delusional at worst. Am i biggoted towards terrorists? damned right i am. Why arnt you?

as far as you simply not agreeing with me, i couldnt care less. Your failure to know a bad guy when you see one isnt my problem.


and just for kicks: palistinian=terrorist

EH,
the difference being, if the hammas a-holes cut thier crap, the israelis would leave them alone. Just like the united states would leave the AQ types alone, if they would just stop causing US trouble.

Moral relativism is retarded, and you are many things, but you aint retarded,

stop it already, you know better

We would be more than happy to leave the arabs the hell alone, but they wont leave US alone, then blame us when we hit back

thats the same ignorant logic that hammas uses with israel

are you REALLY supporting thier insane point of view?

 

[qwksilver61]

Go israel!!!!!!!!!god be with you!!!!!!!

 

[grydth]

I agree with Ninjamom in fully supporting Israel and with hoping that the present conflict ends with the destruction of Hamas. This cabal is nothing more than a murderous terrorist organization, not only by international classification, but by numerous deeds.

The people trapped in Gaza are another thing entirely. Hamas is estimated to have 25,000 terrorists in Gaza (fewer now, as Israel has dispatched several hundred to Hell). There are estimated to be 1.4 million people in Gaza.

There is no justification for murdering all 1,400,000 of these human beings. It would, in the vernacular of law, be a Crime Against Humanity.

Whether one terms them Palestinians or Jordanians or Muslims or simply Arabs matters not in the least. Placing a label on somebody does not make mass murder anything but that.

If some part of a population voted for Hamas, that hardly justifies murdering the entire population of Gaza. Even assuming for argument the awful point that voting for Hamas justifies killing the voter...what about those who did not vote for Hamas, or did not vote at all? Then there are the tens of thousands of children - what sin at the polls did they commit?

What if some foreign nation launched an attack upon us because so many people voted for Hillary Clinton?

I don't buy the notion that Palestinian kids are invariably future terrorists. Were that true, neither Germany nor Italy nor Japan would be the nations - and allies - that they are today.

Israel can keep slowly squeezing until the Hamas death machine cracks - and it should do so. But turning Gaza into the new Nanking or Lidice would be a monstrous crime. I almost cannot believe that people are advocating that, but then, not much surprises me anymore.

 

[Twin Fist]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5454204.ece

Fighting intensified on the northern outskirts of Gaza City yesterday as a Hamas leader warned that the Islamists would kill Jewish children anywhere in the world in revenge for Israel’s devastating assault.

“They have legitimised the murder of their own children by killing the children of Palestine,” Mahmoud Zahar said in a televised broadcast recorded at a secret location. “They have legitimised the killing of their people all over the world by killing our people.”


hammas attacks Israel, Israel returns the favor, so hammas uses that as an excuse to threaten CHILDREN


yeah, i can see why you guys are supporting them.............

 

[Empty Hands]

yeah, i can see why you guys are supporting them.............

No one on this thread has expressed support for Hamas. They have opposed murdering every single innocent person surrounding Hamas. I'm not surprised you see that as support, but no rational person should.

 

[Twin Fist]

ad homs, however thinly veiled, are beneth you

 

[Empty Hands]

ad homs, however thinly veiled, are beneth you

Advocating genocide should be beneath you.

The point stands, anyway. No one has here has expressed support for Hamas.

 

[Twin Fist]

the palistinians supported Hamas by electing them, it is reasonable to assume that the man on the street supports hamas, since they did in fact elect them to power. Therefore, IMO, the palistinians deserve whatever happens to them as a result.

 

[Makalakumu]

TF. Hypothetically, lets say you were "Palestinian". I'm assuming that you would have voted against Hamas in their election? If so, and Hamas won anyway, would you deserve to die because you are "Palestinian"? Would you still be a terrorist?

 

[grydth]

the palistinians supported Hamas by electing them, it is reasonable to assume that the man on the street supports hamas, since they did in fact elect them to power. Therefore, IMO, the palistinians deserve whatever happens to them as a result.

We should never advocate on a national scale something which we would be unwilling to do personally.

Would you be willing, and able, to shoot a room full of Palestinian kids based on your justification above?

 

[Twin Fist]

I would leave rather than support a terrorist government

I would be phoning israeli military the locations of hamas sites before ai took off tho...

TF. Hypothetically, lets say you were "Palestinian". I'm assuming that you would have voted against Hamas in their election? If so, and Hamas won anyway, would you deserve to die because you are "Palestinian"? Would you still be a terrorist?

 

[Twin Fist]

kids dont vote

We should never advocate on a national scale something which we would be unwilling to do personally.

Would you be willing, and able, to shoot a room full of Palestinian kids based on your justification above?