Rank progression - what do you expect?

[andyjeffries]

I've been thinking recently about what to expect from each grade. I thought I'd write my thoughts here and see if it matched others expectations or where we differed.

9/8 Kup - I don't really expect much. I want them to be enthusiastic and pay attention and try their best to do what they're told.
7/6 Kup - They should be able to confidently perform their basic techniques and remember their patterns and be starting to get a grip on sparring against black belts without being scared.
5/4 Kup - They should be feeling a lot more confident in their sparring, being able to kick on the retreat for example. Their basics should be feeling quite crisp now and their basic kicks all correct and to head height. They should be aware that they are setting an example for the lower grades and be conscious of this.
3/2 Kup - They should be happy demonstrating any movement without questioning "do you mean...?". They should be an excellent example for the lower grades now, helping to encourage them while doing partner excercises and giving little tips to the lower grades.
1 Kup - This is their time to brush up. All the movements should be feeling crisp and they will reach a point where they feel confident that they are ready for the expectations of being a black belt.

1st Dan - Here they should be confident in being able to teach small groups of students (e.g. up to 4 people) basic techniques and early patterns. Their movements should be mainly correct. If they have small errors they should be able to be told them and correct them without needing constant reminding - they should be self-motivated.
2nd Dan - They should now have power in all their movements. They should be taking a mentoring/helping role to their juniors and always be willing to help teach groups of students.
3rd Dan - While maintaining power levels, there should now be speed in all movements without over-tension. Teaching larger groups and on occasion running the whole class shouldn't be a problem for 3rd Dan students. Their accuracy of movement should be a high level, targets should be hit, striking points should be correct.
4th Dan - I should feel confident that a 4th Dan student can open their own class, grade their own students. They should also be demonstrating a capacity for family, helping to teach others who may not be as gifted as them without judging them. They should understand not just Taekwondo, but how to teach it (motivation, examples, analogies and a high level of technical accuracy not just in doing, but explaining). They should be able to make quick corrections to students without a lot of action-replays or "hmmm, you're doing something not quite right, but I can't see what it is".

I'm only a 5th Dan myself, so my expectations of above 4th Dan aren't set yet.

What do you guys think? Do you have different high level expectations of each rank or are you in rough agreement with mine?

 

[Cyriacus]

I may only be 7th Kup (Soon to be 6th, hopefully ), so to avoid overreaching my considerations;
9th to 8th; Control and Balance. Power and Speed will come with time. Basic understandings of Stances, and Application are nice as well.
8th to 7th; More Power, More Speed, and a generally better capability to pick up new things.

 

[rlobrecht]

Andy,
I wonder if your expectation changes with age of the student? i.e. do you expect more from a 5th teen than you do a 5th child?

Thanks,
Rick

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I pretty much agree with your summation Andy, that sems quite reasonable.

 

[terryl965]

I never put expectation on a certain rank but rather on the individual. We all have minimals standards that everyone must do but if I have a gifted student I always expect more from them than a student that has no balance or self confidant. I can see where we mostly agree though.

 

[andyjeffries]

I wonder if your expectation changes with age of the student? i.e. do you expect more from a 5th teen than you do a 5th

I would say my description of the expectation is fairly constant. What I would define as power, speed, confidence, etc within that expectation would change depending on their age.

Accuracy levels though would be fairly constant between them, I'm a big fan of knowing what is correct (being able to describe a movement/position without having to show it) and then aiming to achieve it.

 

[andyjeffries]

I never put expectation on a certain rank but rather on the individual. We all have minimals standards that everyone must do but if I have a gifted student I always expect more from them than a student that has no balance or self confidant. I can see where we mostly agree though.

I expect each student to push themselves. This is where the two types of testing (from Master Sang H Kim's Desktop Instructor book) comes in. One is mean based testing - mark each student in reference to each other so that the high marks are the best in the class and the low are the worst students/practitioners. I disagree with this style of marking. I prefer to mark each student according to a set of criteria and have a class full of high grades if they all achieve it.

I also like to have in mind a proportion of the mark for improvement, so for the lower grades particularly even if they aren't as good as others, if they're making great efforts to improve then that should be rewarded.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

We use only one Kata, broken down into five distinct segments (Waza). This is part of the rank progression. I teach a thorough understanding of each Waza from the perspective of SD using each side (right handed/left handed) and the viability at arms length/grappling/ground. Additionally, when the time is appropriate, CQC and locks, effortless throws, balance displacement, cavity press etc. I place no particular time limit on any level of instruction, nor are my students in a hurry. Rather, a complete mastery of the material is preferred to the next belt (which we don't normally where anyway).

 

[andyjeffries]

@Kong Soo Do - I was trying to avoid the specifics of syllabus, rather going for a general feel expectation. Do you have any thoughts in that vein? As was asked of me, do your expectations differ from adult to child (regarding complete mastery/time limits - children often needing more frequent encouragement).

 

[Kong Soo Do]

@Kong Soo Do - I was trying to avoid the specifics of syllabus, rather going for a general feel expectation. Do you have any thoughts in that vein? As was asked of me, do your expectations differ from adult to child (regarding complete mastery/time limits - children often needing more frequent encouragement).

Ahh, gotcha

The expectations from adult to child don't necesarrily change, but the things that are taught do of course change. In regards to 'child' I suppose everyone has a different idea of what age to start. I started teaching my son at 10, but only because he was interested and ready. I would not normally start that early. But there are no time limits for them or the adults.

 

[andyjeffries]

I'll take your age thing to a new thread...

 

[d1jinx]

check to clear :uhyeah:

 

[stkdh]

I've been thinking recently about what to expect from each grade. I thought I'd write my thoughts here and see if it matched others expectations or where we differed.

9/8 Kup - I don't really expect much. I want them to be enthusiastic and pay attention and try their best to do what they're told.
7/6 Kup - They should be able to confidently perform their basic techniques and remember their patterns and be starting to get a grip on sparring against black belts without being scared.
5/4 Kup - They should be feeling a lot more confident in their sparring, being able to kick on the retreat for example. Their basics should be feeling quite crisp now and their basic kicks all correct and to head height. They should be aware that they are setting an example for the lower grades and be conscious of this.
3/2 Kup - They should be happy demonstrating any movement without questioning "do you mean...?". They should be an excellent example for the lower grades now, helping to encourage them while doing partner excercises and giving little tips to the lower grades.
1 Kup - This is their time to brush up. All the movements should be feeling crisp and they will reach a point where they feel confident that they are ready for the expectations of being a black belt.

1st Dan - Here they should be confident in being able to teach small groups of students (e.g. up to 4 people) basic techniques and early patterns. Their movements should be mainly correct. If they have small errors they should be able to be told them and correct them without needing constant reminding - they should be self-motivated.
2nd Dan - They should now have power in all their movements. They should be taking a mentoring/helping role to their juniors and always be willing to help teach groups of students.
3rd Dan - While maintaining power levels, there should now be speed in all movements without over-tension. Teaching larger groups and on occasion running the whole class shouldn't be a problem for 3rd Dan students. Their accuracy of movement should be a high level, targets should be hit, striking points should be correct.
4th Dan - I should feel confident that a 4th Dan student can open their own class, grade their own students. They should also be demonstrating a capacity for family, helping to teach others who may not be as gifted as them without judging them. They should understand not just Taekwondo, but how to teach it (motivation, examples, analogies and a high level of technical accuracy not just in doing, but explaining). They should be able to make quick corrections to students without a lot of action-replays or "hmmm, you're doing something not quite right, but I can't see what it is".

I'm only a 5th Dan myself, so my expectations of above 4th Dan aren't set yet.

What do you guys think? Do you have different high level expectations of each rank or are you in rough agreement with mine?

Ok it's been a while but here we go.....

10-9 to show knowledge of basic technique and to be executed with enthusiasm. To be inquisitive about what they are doing (that ones more during training than a grading though)
8 - 7 to know basic techniques well enough that that can do them on command with a demonstration. To now show power in their patterns and basic techniques. All basic techniques should also be tried as a spinning technique. sparring should be semi fluent.
6 - 5 all basic techniques should now be done with speed, power and confidence and head high (for the most part). when sparring students should be able to be more dominant over lower ranking students.
4 -3 all technique should be able to be performed as a jumping technique and must also try as a jump spinning technique. basic techniques and patterns should show the use of hip twist to maximise power. when sparring students must so confidence with lower ranks throughout the rounds as well as be dominant. Students will also have to do 2 on 1.
2 - 1 preparring for black belt. all basic techniques must be sharp, focused, powerful, executed at speed and have use of hip twist etc. when sparring students will lead the round with lower ranks and will also spar several rounds with higher ranking black belt (2nd dan up). 2 and/or 3 on 1 rounds will be included.

I could be here awhile with black belts but id say KUP belts will do for now.

The one thing i do not believe in though, is that students should not be expected to teach/assist as a student. practising/training in a martial art is completely different to teaching it and should stay a separate thing.

My 2 cents

 

[andyjeffries]

Thanks for posting your thoughts, greatly appreciated.

The one thing i do not believe in though, is that students should not be expected to teach/assist as a student. practising/training in a martial art is completely different to teaching it and should stay a separate thing.

I agree they are different - but that's the advantage, you learn lots of things when you have to teach/explain things to other (along with the other mental pressure that means you have to perform it correctly). Teaching for me is part of learning.

 

[vikings827]

10-4