Rank Certificates

[terryl965]

What does your rank certificate mean to you, does this change who you are?
Has it made you a better person?
Does it matter which one you have?
Is this piece of paper so valuble it is a lock box?


I know these are loaded question and for the reason below I ask, when someone comes to my school I have none of mine up, period. The reason is simple they truely do not mean that much to me, my training does. I have a KKW and a couple of other one, but the one that really matters was my father and my GMthose that they wrote with there bare hands and signed saying I was worthy enough for them. All the other ones means is I paid and was given one.

 

[IcemanSK]

My KKW & US Chung Do Kwan certs mean a lot to me because I've been swindled in the past. I was once told I was getting an ITF cert by a man claiming to be an ITF 6th Dan. He wasn't legit & neither were the certs.

A cert from Joe's TKD & Lube means more than an illegitimate cert from anywhere. I value my KKW because I value my instructors who gave them to me. I appreciate my 2nd Dan KKW cert because I'm in GM Uhm's lineage.

 

[terryl965]

Ok but what does it mean, does anyone that you train really care, or is it just you. So it is for self worth? Iceman n ot trying to rain on the parade, but I get ask all the time about my KKW and how worthless itid by people on this board, so I would like to hear from them and they know you they are.

I love being told what is not worth anything by thos ethat do not have.

 

[morph4me]

What does your rank certificate mean to you, does this change who you are?

It's a piece of paper, like my belt is a piece of cloth, it doesn't change anything

Has it made you a better person?

No

Does it matter which one you have?

Maybe to some people, not to me.

Is this piece of paper so valuble it is a lock box?

No. I have all of my cerificates for each rank, from throughout my martial arts career together in an envelope somewhere, and every once in awhile I find them and put them away again, and don't see them for another few years.

 

[tkd1964]

I have a question. If the certificates don't mean anything to you then why test in the first place? Why not just train and learn and not worry about that piece of paper?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

No legitamate certification is worthless. Certifications are credentials. These are things that a potential student can see and have greater assurance that the person to whom they are about to hand over their hard earned cash and irretrevable time is at least affiliated with a legitamate organization. Some students don't care about organization or certifications, just the knowledge. But if you move to a new area and have no source of first hand knowledge about the local schools, certifications are one of the things that can differentiate the legit from the non legit. True, a certification is no guarantee of quality training. It is a guarantee to a student that if he or she signs up that the certification that they earn will be legitamate.

What do my certifications mean to me? I am more proud of my martial arts degrees and certifications than I am of any other credential that I have earned, bar none. I couldn't tell you where my high school diploma is, but my first and second dan certificates are proudly displayed at home. Like you, Terry, this is due to the respect that I have for Grandmaster Kim, Master Choi, and Master Yeo under whom I have trained than any sense of self worth gained by having the paper; it is the knowledge that is important.

As I teach and one day intend to open my own dojang, certifications are valuable to me from the standpoint that they give me something concrete to show to a student who has not seen me train or compete.

Ultimately, the certificates are merely a representation of the knowledge and skills that I have collected, not the knowledge and skills themselves. As for self worth, that cannot be attained through any certificate or even possession of the highest degree of knowledge and skill. A high school drop out can have a wonderful sense of self worth, while a Harvard grad can be insecure and self loathing, inspite of having a very prestigious degree.

Daniel

 

[exile]

I have a question. If the certificates don't mean anything to you then why test in the first place? Why not just train and learn and not worry about that piece of paper?

Fair question.

Here's my own take on the answer: a certificate means very little in itself, but the credential it vouches for means that your views will be listened to by people who would otherwise treat you as invisible.

It is the skill, the knowledge and experience behind the dan rank that important, not the dan rank or its legal verification (i.e., the cert). But without that rank, your views and ideas will very likely be disregarded by people who aren't prepared to listen to anyone who's not 'in the club'. The rank, and therefore the validation of that rank, is a way to get into conversations that you'll be excluded from without it. So it's not inconsistent to say that (i) on the one hand, the cert itself doesn't have any intrinsic meaning (apart from the expertise that went into your earning it) and that (ii) on the other hand, it's worth having.

 

[StuartA]

What does your rank certificate mean to you,

To me personally it lests me know I earnt where I am, but in the grandscheme of things, with so many McDojangs they remain a piece of card with the knowledge of who has signed them meaning more. Like you, I have none of mine out anywhere.

does this change who you are?

No.. as ultimatly its what behind the belt that matters

Has it made you a better person?

No.. Ive always been a naughty boy!

Does it matter which one you have?

Yes.. as the cerificates worth is dicatated by the sourse that issued it. However, how this worth is evaluated is different whether is by the student or by others.

Is this piece of paper so valuble it is a lock box?

Nope. In an old (big) envelope somewhere in the house!


On its own, a rank cert is still just a piece of card.. however its value comes down to how you earnt it and/or who has signed it. Personally, I place little value on ranks certs signed by organisations where the signiture didnt even sit in on the grading itself.. making it all rather pointless. Thats not to say the student didnt earn it, just that Id rather have mine sign by those that felt I was worthy and oversaw it all themselves.. even if they are not the head honcho of some massive organisation! Even without a cert, a rank is still a rank, as long as its sourse is verifiable!

They have their place.. but having seen so many BBs of all grades looking, for want of a better word, lacking... just how much emphasis can you place on them!


Stuart

 

[terryl965]

I have a question. If the certificates don't mean anything to you then why test in the first place? Why not just train and learn and not worry about that piece of paper?

I went for almost 15 years between testing for 4th so they really do not mean much to me. I have been available to test for 5th for a good while now as well and have not.

 

[KELLYG]

I have and keep my kkw certificates, school certificates that i have earned. There is a lot of blood sweat and tears involved in obtaining each level none of them were bought they all were earned. Some i have set out on display others I do not.

I think that there is and should be a "change" in you as a person. Just due to the fact that your responsibilities and how you are viewed by other students in your class.

i won't be able to test for a while due to the required training between belts. I continue to work out and will even if i decide to go for no further belts.

the physical possession or not of the paper or belts does not change the fact that the information is in my brain and in my heart.

 

[StuartA]

I have a question. If the certificates don't mean anything to you then why test in the first place? Why not just train and learn and not worry about that piece of paper?

Because its the test that matters.. not the paper earned from the test!

 

[morph4me]

I have a question. If the certificates don't mean anything to you then why test in the first place? Why not just train and learn and not worry about that piece of paper?

In my particular organization as well as some others, we are taught the curriculum for our rank, which basically means that until we earn the next rank, we aren't taught that part of the curriculum. After shodan, this isn't the case, which is why I stopped testing after I made shodan.

 

[14 Kempo]

What does your rank certificate mean to you?

It means that the person who signed it felt I was worthy at the point where I earned it.

Does this change who you are?

It does not change who I am, however, it does somewhat change what others expect of me.

Has it made you a better person?

To some point, yes. Back when I started, 1985, I had a pretty volatile temper. It has tamed quite a bit from the arts as well as age, to where I am very even tempered now.

Does it matter which one you have?

In which art, no. But of course it matters who signed the certificate.

Is this piece of paper so valuble it is a lock box?

Not in a lock box. I do keep my black belt certificate, but I did not keep the others.

 

[Kacey]

What does your rank certificate mean to you, does this change who you are?

It means that people whose opinion I trust were willing to sign their name certifying that I had demonstrated a certain level of ability. That those people were willing to put their names on that certificate is priceless; the certificate itself is a piece of paper with fancy printing it on.

Has it made you a better person?

The certificate? Not at all. The experiences that led to those people signing the certificate? Certainly.

Does it matter which one you have?

What do you mean, which one? I have them all - but the gup (color belt) certificates are all in a cheap frame someone gave me, one on top of the other. The BB certificates are in a somewhat nicer frame (necessitated by the odd size that caused me to get a custom frame), also one on top of the other. I may (and may not) get the IV Dan certificate framed - but that's so that people who see it will have a better chance of understanding the 2 red strips of fabric with it - stripes from my sahbum's IV Dan belt, which had been his sahbum's belt originally. The stripes - representing my sahbum's faith in me - are priceless. The certificate, like the others, is a piece of paper with fancy printing, important only for the faith in me shown by the people who signed it, not for the paper itself.

Is this piece of paper so valuble it is a lock box?

No. They're all in the basement... somewhere...

Let me pose a slightly different question. Take all the questions above, and replace the word "certificate" with "diploma". Where are your diploma(s)? Can you answer the same questions about them? For myself, the diplomas are even less meaningful than the certificates, as they were signed by functionaries who knew only that I met certain requirements, but did not know me personally. The knowledge they represent, however, is what has meaning. Why would rank certificates be any different?

 

[terryl965]

Kacey my diplomas are just like my certificates somewhere ina drawer in the house or garage. I must be like the same as most of you about that

 

[IcemanSK]

For me, I value my TKD certs much more than my degrees. The reason is that I was expected to earn college degrees as I was growing up. No one expected me to receive my MA rank. In fact, it's astonished most everyone I know. The certs are simply symbols of my achievement, like my degrees. I worked much harder at my MA rank than my degrees. My degrees cost me time, money, & some mental & emotional stress. I was stretched, but not beyond what I could handle. TKD, however, has constantly required me to push beyond my limits to do things I don't expect that I can do. I costs me more & the pay-offs are bigger, too.

During any difficult time I've had in my life, I've always looked back at a physical accomplishment & said, "If I can do that, I can do this."

As I said, the certs are reminders of mile posts & recognition of achievements. They are not "the thing" but they represent "the thing."

 

[YoungMan]

Fair question.

Here's my own take on the answer: a certificate means very little in itself, but the credential it vouches for means that your views will be listened to by people who would otherwise treat you as invisible.

It is the skill, the knowledge and experience behind the dan rank that important, not the dan rank or its legal verification (i.e., the cert). But without that rank, your views and ideas will very likely be disregarded by people who aren't prepared to listen to anyone who's not 'in the club'. The rank, and therefore the validation of that rank, is a way to get into conversations that you'll be excluded from without it. So it's not inconsistent to say that (i) on the one hand, the cert itself doesn't have any intrinsic meaning (apart from the expertise that went into your earning it) and that (ii) on the other hand, it's worth having.

Yes and no. There are LOTS of people out there with 6th, 7th, and higher rank certificates I have no respect for and could care less about. It's nice that someone has a 7th Dan certificate. I have a 5th Dan certificate (two actually). What is more important to me is who issued you those certificates. My certificates are signed by Mr. Uhm (Kukkiwon) and my instructor. Both mean the world to me. I do agree with exile on this point: it does mean my viewpoints in the Taekwondo community and our organization are more likely to be taken seriously. Especially since I am a good 5-7 years younger than the next youngest 5th Dans, that does mean something.

 

[Twin Fist]

funny thing, i treasure my certs, not in and of themselves, but the signatures on them. Those names are people whom I respect, as people and as martial artists, and those signatures say "he deserves this"

That means something to me

 

[YoungMan]

I agree. The one thing that can differentiate a valuable certificate from a worthless piece of paper is the signature on the bottom. Who signed it can make all the difference in the world.

 

[Deaf Smith]

What does your rank certificate mean to you, does this change who you are?

The actual certification is simply a steping stone to other things (yes it's kind of cold to think that way, but you will find your Phd. is the same way.) The only reason, to me, for someone to get a 4th or higher Dan is to teach. I plan to teach. If I didn't, I would have just stayed at 3ed Dan and had fun learning other arts.

Has it made you a better person?

The training? Yes!

The piece of paper? No.

The rank? No.

What it took to get that rank? Yes.

Does it matter which one you have?

Within reason, no. If you are taking different arts (than TKD), as long as they have a good moral code to live by, and the training is hard and effective, then no. I've seen to many good martial artist from other arts to say my 'way' is the only 'way'.

Is this piece of paper so valuble it is a lock box?

Actually yes it is.

In fact all my 'degrees' from high school, college, TKD, SBD, IDPA, all the shooting schools I've been to, all the computer schools I went to, ERT team training, etc... are all in the safe (along with many a good gun and my wife's finest posessions.)

I don't look at others wall paper to see what they have got. I look inside them to see what really matters.

Deaf