Rage - source of strength or weakness?

[the_kicking_fiend]

When it comes to self-defence, does rage help? I often wonder this because an absolute pure rage makes you have the kind of advantages of being drunk (not feeling the pain of hits) but without the discoordination and slow reaction times. It also I think enables you to hit far more powerfully than usual. I question whether it does slow you down slightly though because a clear relaxed mind usually makes me personally much quicker.

thoughts...

d

 

[7starmantis]

Weakness in every aspect.

7sm

 

[tshadowchaser]

Uncotrolled rage may give you a sudden bust of adrinalin witch will give you that trength but it will flow out quickly leaveing you feeling weaker.
Controlled rage may let you fight hader and with more determination.

 

[kenpo12]

IMO you almost have to use controlled rage. Outside of a training enviroment it's very hard to hit and hurt someone without having some sort of anger attached to it. You don't want to go into an uncontrolled rage or you will lose control and do something that could get you hurt, but a controlled rage is almost a must.

 

[Nightingale]

rage implies that one is not in control, and this is always a disadvantage.

controlled anger can give you an edge, but when you lose control, you get sloppy and usually lose the fight.

 

[Shodan]

First thing that comes to mind is that it is a weakness in all aspects- controlled or uncontrolled. I think it is a weakness because your focus, in either case, would be totally on what you are raging against.......which causes you to lose awareness of anything else around you and any other dangers, etc. in your vicinity.

:asian: :karate:

 

[psi_radar]

Determination is far superior to rage. Rage makes for bad judgement and a tense body. A supple, relaxed body fights better than one tied up in a knot. Anger/rage will also make you over exagerrate and overcommitmit your movements, making yourself an easier target. You'll also strike at the absolute first target, rather than the best one.

Rage bad, calm good.

 

[Black Bear]

Let's say rage as in "indignation". As in, "I'm minding my own business, how DARE you attack me. (Now I have to smush you.)"

Just think of all the untrained people whose indignation caused them to pulverize or cripple someone who attacked them or their child.

Tony Blauer has made a career of instructing people how to use RAGE to their best advantage in self-defense, while minimizing the downsides.

 

[7starmantis]

I have to agree with Nightingale in that by its very definition, Rage implies loss of control. I believe rage in any sense is a disadvantage.

"Turn into a doll made of wood: it has no ego, it thinks nothing, it is not grasping or sticky. Let the body and limbs work theselves out in accordance with the discipline they have undergone.

If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Moving, be like water. Still, be like a mirror. Respond like and echo.

The localization of the mind means its freezing. When it ceases to flow freely as it is needed, it is no more the mind in it suchness.

The perfect way is only difficult for those who pick and choose. Do not like, do not dislike; all will then be clear. Make a hairbreadth difference and heaven and earth are set apart; if you want the truth to stand clear before you, never be for or against. The struggle between "for" and "against" is the mind's worst disease.

Give up thinking as though not giving it up. Observe techniques as though not observing.

Eliminate "not clear" thinking and function from your root.
-Bruce Lee

I think that pretty much sums up my beliefs on rage. In a fight, emotion is the enemy, emotion causes you to percieve the outcome, to stress a particular technique; this will only cause you to loose if against a skilled fighter. Sure, rage may help you overtake the 6 year old kid who called you a doodiehead, but a true fighter will capitolize on your "rage" or emotion in any form.

7sm

 

[Black Bear]

Hmm... I think it would be useful to distinguish between "not clear" thinking and emotion. As a person seeking after the truth (in combat, in this case) we need to eliminate self-deception, bias, etc.

But emotion (including negative emotion) is part of the healthy human experience. Otherwise why don't we all get our limbic systems surgically removed? There is a place for rage... and fear... and sadness. We just have to understand and manage them.

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by Black Bear
Hmm... I think it would be useful to distinguish between "not clear" thinking and emotion. As a person seeking after the truth (in combat, in this case) we need to eliminate self-deception, bias, etc.

But emotion (including negative emotion) is part of the healthy human experience. Otherwise why don't we all get our limbic systems surgically removed? There is a place for rage... and fear... and sadness. We just have to understand and manage them.

I don't agree, in fighting there is no place for emotion. To say that they are human experiences and thus be a part of fighting is to imply that humans are made for fighting and we all know that is not the case. If we were, we wouldn't have to train so hard, man I wish that was the case!

I don't base my philosophies on Bruce Lee, but he summed it up good again in this quote: "The knowledge and skills you have achieved are meant to be forgotten so you can float comfortably in emptiness, without obstruction.

The great mistake is to anticipate the outcome of the engagement; you ought not to be thinking of whether it ends in victory or defeat. Let nature take it's course, and your tools will strike at the right moment.

JMO,
7sm

 

[TonyM.]

Remember the video clip on wide world of sports of the downhill skier crashing and burning while the announcer is saying "the agony of defeat"? That was Ingimar Stenmark attempting to use rage to conquer the mountain during the downhill.

 

[loki09789]

Being the stuffy English Language Arts teacher I am:

"to prevail without restraint" is one possible definition of rage. Also the origin of rage is latin (rabere) and means "to be mad" (as in crazed)

Base on this, I would say that rage is a liability. As either self defense artists or martial artists, regardless of philosophy or mission, control is a constant.

Legally, ethically, morally... control of your forceful/violent behavior/emotional state in the moment will help you make sure you are justified in action and thought, more able to sift through the PST/guilt that can come after a violent encounter, and look objectively at any situation.

Paul M

 

[Black Bear]

I don't agree, in fighting there is no place for emotion. To say that they are human experiences and thus be a part of fighting is to imply that humans are made for fighting and we all know that is not the case. If we were, we wouldn't have to train so hard, man I wish that was the case!

I do not see how that logically follows. I said that emotion is a natural part of the healthy human experience. How do you find that I imply that humans are made for fighting?

 

[Thesemindz]

I lost control once during a sparring match against a guy who was ignorant and being a child. I was a brown belt in Kenpo at the time and he was a beginner in Kung-Fu. It was just supposed to be friendly sparring with some friends, but this guy was really being a pain. I kept conceding points to him just to keep playing, but he finally pushed me too far and I snapped. I didn't realize what I was doing, but in retrospect I wanted to humble this guy. Suddenly I was filled with an energy I've never since experienced. I was able to move much faster than ever before. I was able to predict his moves and corner my opponent with my combinations. Luckily, he realized I was out of control and put a stop to the match before anyone got hurt. From the time I snapped to the time he stopped the fight couldn't have been more than a minute or so and I didn't even touch him during that time, because I was trying to make him look like a fool. I was really ashamed. Especially when this guy who was acting like a child had to stop the fight because I was taking it to personally. I had sunk below his level. I was really bothered by this incident for a long time. I felt that I had let down my instructors and myself.

Since then I've gotten over it, and I've learned alot from that experience. I have tried to recapture that feeling but have only come close so far. I don't know if it was adrenaline, focus, or pure emotion, but I felt like Superman for just a second. I think if I could learn to harness that energy and summon it up on command it would make me a much more fomidable fighter. Even when I spar or fight, I haven't been able to repeat the sensation I felt that night. I think it is important to clearly identify your objectives in combat. Are you out to hurt the other guy, or keep yourself from getting hurt? I think offensively, rage could be an asset. However, to commit to that level of aggressiveness would leave you open to counter attack. I don't think you can reach that point when you are concerned with your own survival.

-Rob

 

[7starmantis]

In my system we work on being soft, and feeling your opponants moves. Any kind of tension from any emotion will cause you to loose that feel and softness. Against an extremely skilled opponent that will cost you. Against an average joe on the street maybe it will help you win, but against a skilled MAist you will be putting yourself allready in a disadvantageous situation.

7sm

 

[Gary Crawford]

I think uncontrolled rage could be an advantage,but only for the first hit(provided YOU get the first hit),after that,I think it's like wearing out tires on the first lap of a race,no controle at all.

 

[7starmantis]

I think controled rage is an oxymoron. Controlled Rage? I don't see that controlled rage is possible let alone advantageous. I know what you guys are saying about "controlled rage" but I don't believe that it is acually something you can control. To be in a state of rage is to be tense, to be out of control.

7sm

 

[Rich Parsons]

rage implies that one is not in control, and this is always a disadvantage.

controlled anger can give you an edge, but when you lose control, you get sloppy and usually lose the fight.

The Young Lady is correct. If you loose control bad things can happen. You can do things you wish you would not have done. You can do things that could end up getting a person into trouble with the law and going to jail or prison.

Controlled Anger, and or using the Adrenaline properly, will allow you to react and defend or take care of the situation, wihtout crossing a lines you cannot come back from.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Hmm... I think it would be useful to distinguish between "not clear" thinking and emotion. As a person seeking after the truth (in combat, in this case) we need to eliminate self-deception, bias, etc.

But emotion (including negative emotion) is part of the healthy human experience. Otherwise why don't we all get our limbic systems surgically removed? There is a place for rage... and fear... and sadness. We just have to understand and manage them.

Mr Bear,

Emotion has its' places. I agree that anger and fear will bring the adrenaline to help you fight. Rage and loss of thought, may allow for you to not feel the pain nor understand what you have done, until the rage is over. Then you have to live with your actions. In a civilized society, rage is not an acceptable emotion. Its' actions and by products are not productive to society. Now, if there are no laws and no ramification to your actions and you have no conscious or social conscious for your actions then Rage has a place. Just like the appendix had a place at one time.

Emotion is good. Not all emotions have a proper place. They do happen.

Just my opinion