The Increase in Anger

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Bill Mattocks

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I think there has been a general increase in violent public incidents involving things like road rage and people acting out in restaurants, airports, on planes, and so. I suspect many of us are aware of it.

I am not going to go into the whys and wherefores, because politics. Let's leave that alone.

But talking strictly about the seeming increase in violence, especially as it pertains to the calculus of self-defense.

What I mean by that is this. As we prepare and train to defend ourselves, it seems the chances are growing that we may be called upon to actually defend ourselves or others from violent people.

On the other hand, I have also noted that more and more people seem to be willing to pull guns and fire them during such situations. I recall a recent shocking video from NYC in the Bronx, where a young man was acosted by two armed robbers who tried to take his money. He fought back and punched one of them in the head, whereupon they shot him repeatedly.

It's kind of difficult to employ self-defense techniques against firearms.

Given that it seems there is more propensity to violence nowadays, and more situations where firearms are involved, does that change your calculus where it concerns self-defense?

Personally, I try to avoid violence wherever possible, based on the reasoning that in a physical altercation, anything can happen, planned or unplanned. You throw a punch in a road rage situation, the guy falls down and hits his head, freak accident, he's dead and you might be going to prison. Situation reversed and your spouse and family may have to face a lifetime without you because you were wiling to fight over an improper lane change on the highway or something equally rediculous.

I was recently involved in a road rage incident. Normally I am a very laid-back driver. I just don't let people get to me. If someone tailgates me, I move over and let them pass. I don't get hot under the collar, etc. However, recently I was bringing my wife home from surgery and she was still coming out of anesthesia and I was worried about her. Some idiot started tailgating me, charging up on me and flashing his lights, etc. I pulled to one side, he passed, I flipped him off. At the next intersection, he blocked me in and challenged me to fight. I got angry and wanted to fight him also. If my wife had not made it clear that she did not want this happening, I believe I would have. Dude appeared to be a construction worker, at least 40 years my junior, in good physical condition. Don't know if he knew how to fight or not, but he kept calling me out and calling me 'old man' and I really wanted to take him to school. If I could, of course. I finally calmed down enough to just drive away. He followed us for awhile and then disappeared. I'm still concerned I'll run into him again at some point.

But frankly, letting myself get upset and willing to fight was a primitive reaction, and a stupid self-destructive one. It would have proved nothing. If I had been seriously hurt or killed, my wife would have nearly nothing to survive on; we're not rich, I don't have a lot to leave her. If the guy had had a gun...well, you know. If I had hurt or killed him, possible bigtime legal consequences for me. Lawyer's bills, loss of income, etc, and that's at the very minimum. I don't need to be going to the cross-bar hotel at my age.

But other than that, which I am not proud of, I have been letting people get as mad as they want and then just letting it pass. Staying calm and focused. If I am attacked, of course I will defend myself. But only in those circumstances. Words won't make me fight. They nearly did, but I got over it.

How are you handling this? Have you changed your outlook? Have you noticed what I have noticed? Interested in your responses.
 

gpseymour

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Aside from any political implications, I think a couple of non-political factors have contributed to the rise in rage.

Firstly, folks have been under more stress, and stress hormones impact the part of the brain that gives us emotional control. Essentially, "stress" is partly the brain mis-applying the fight-or-flight response over a long period.

Secondly, folks have been around people less, so get out-of-practice on their people skills and self-management.

Anyway, yes, it really ought to factor into our choices. Like you, I find myself having a shorter fuse than usual sometimes these days. I've certainly spoken up snappishly to folks doing things that annoy me, where I'd normally either ignore it or say something less snappish. I don't know that it changes how I think about physical conflict, though. My approach would always have been to do what I can to avoid it becoming violent (they can have wallets, etc.), and to act as harshly as necessary/possible if I don't think violence is reliably avoidable.
 
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Bill Mattocks

Bill Mattocks

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Aside from any political implications, I think a couple of non-political factors have contributed to the rise in rage.

Firstly, folks have been under more stress, and stress hormones impact the part of the brain that gives us emotional control. Essentially, "stress" is partly the brain mis-applying the fight-or-flight response over a long period.

Secondly, folks have been around people less, so get out-of-practice on their people skills and self-management.

Anyway, yes, it really ought to factor into our choices. Like you, I find myself having a shorter fuse than usual sometimes these days. I've certainly spoken up snappishly to folks doing things that annoy me, where I'd normally either ignore it or say something less snappish. I don't know that it changes how I think about physical conflict, though. My approach would always have been to do what I can to avoid it becoming violent (they can have wallets, etc.), and to act as harshly as necessary/possible if I don't think violence is reliably avoidable.
Agreed, excellent points.

Do you think people have become more prone to resorting to firearms? If so, has that altered your plans in any way?
 

gpseymour

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Agreed, excellent points.

Do you think people have become more prone to resorting to firearms? If so, has that altered your plans in any way?
I suspect some of that is the same repression of the executive function of the brain (which also happens to deal with considering long-term consequences). It would only alter my approach insofar as the gun shows up, because that changes the math on how avoidable violence is.
 

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If you leave politics out, there's nothing more to say. Why am I even here? Because we Asians are being targeted by blacks particular the older or women. ( sorry to state the FACTS, just look at all the videos). I have been practicing Tae Kwon Do before and still working out at home, there's nothing to talk about. I have to pick up stick fight with a cane as that's the biggest equalizer facing those bigger and younger people. That's the only reason I am even talking here.

Violent people are being let out of jails and not even charging them for looting and burning, you think why there are more violence?

As for guns, I have plenty, I am a good shooter also. It's not that easy. The liberal cities let violent people out, but if a law-abiding people like me, if I shoot someone, I'll be in deep trouble. They make it a point to prosecute people that try to defend themselves with guns. Look at McCloskey case, protesters invaded their property, they came out with guns, no rounds were fired. But did they get into trouble.

Please, there comes a point of time to stop avoid the elephant in the room. You can delete my post, you can ban me, this is the truth and I am angry I have to put in so much time learning a new skill(cane fighting) that I am not even excited about, just matter of survival. I don't even care to be good, just good enough to save my life and protect my wife.
 
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Buka

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I think there has been a general increase in violent public incidents involving things like road rage and people acting out in restaurants, airports, on planes, and so. I suspect many of us are aware of it.

I am not going to go into the whys and wherefores, because politics. Let's leave that alone.

But talking strictly about the seeming increase in violence, especially as it pertains to the calculus of self-defense.

What I mean by that is this. As we prepare and train to defend ourselves, it seems the chances are growing that we may be called upon to actually defend ourselves or others from violent people.

On the other hand, I have also noted that more and more people seem to be willing to pull guns and fire them during such situations. I recall a recent shocking video from NYC in the Bronx, where a young man was acosted by two armed robbers who tried to take his money. He fought back and punched one of them in the head, whereupon they shot him repeatedly.

It's kind of difficult to employ self-defense techniques against firearms.

Given that it seems there is more propensity to violence nowadays, and more situations where firearms are involved, does that change your calculus where it concerns self-defense?

Personally, I try to avoid violence wherever possible, based on the reasoning that in a physical altercation, anything can happen, planned or unplanned. You throw a punch in a road rage situation, the guy falls down and hits his head, freak accident, he's dead and you might be going to prison. Situation reversed and your spouse and family may have to face a lifetime without you because you were wiling to fight over an improper lane change on the highway or something equally rediculous.

I was recently involved in a road rage incident. Normally I am a very laid-back driver. I just don't let people get to me. If someone tailgates me, I move over and let them pass. I don't get hot under the collar, etc. However, recently I was bringing my wife home from surgery and she was still coming out of anesthesia and I was worried about her. Some idiot started tailgating me, charging up on me and flashing his lights, etc. I pulled to one side, he passed, I flipped him off. At the next intersection, he blocked me in and challenged me to fight. I got angry and wanted to fight him also. If my wife had not made it clear that she did not want this happening, I believe I would have. Dude appeared to be a construction worker, at least 40 years my junior, in good physical condition. Don't know if he knew how to fight or not, but he kept calling me out and calling me 'old man' and I really wanted to take him to school. If I could, of course. I finally calmed down enough to just drive away. He followed us for awhile and then disappeared. I'm still concerned I'll run into him again at some point.

But frankly, letting myself get upset and willing to fight was a primitive reaction, and a stupid self-destructive one. It would have proved nothing. If I had been seriously hurt or killed, my wife would have nearly nothing to survive on; we're not rich, I don't have a lot to leave her. If the guy had had a gun...well, you know. If I had hurt or killed him, possible bigtime legal consequences for me. Lawyer's bills, loss of income, etc, and that's at the very minimum. I don't need to be going to the cross-bar hotel at my age.

But other than that, which I am not proud of, I have been letting people get as mad as they want and then just letting it pass. Staying calm and focused. If I am attacked, of course I will defend myself. But only in those circumstances. Words won't make me fight. They nearly did, but I got over it.

How are you handling this? Have you changed your outlook? Have you noticed what I have noticed? Interested in your responses.
This is an interesting subject. And, yeah, Bill, I've noticed it too.

But part of me wonders something. Nowadays there's so much social media, businesses that have security cameras, homes with doorbell cameras, so many cell phones that shoot video, is maybe part of it that we're just seeing more of what goes on? Maybe some, I dunno'.

But if you look at the numbers they show on the news, it looks like all violence and crime is up. Especially in the cities. I know who I blame as a base cause, but I can't say as it might be misconstrued as political - even though I don't believe it is in any way, shape or form.

And I don't really see much of it first hand out here. We're kinda' like Disneyland with sand.

The road rage thing - I'm a pretty laid back guy. And when I'm in uniform a guy can come up to me and scream in my face and I'll just respond, "yeah, yeah, now how can I help you?"

But even in my youth when I was even chiller (and often stoned on weed) - fools in cars got under my skin more than anyone else. And I have no idea why. Anybody have any ideas on that? What is it about cars.

I have a friend in L.A who I won't drive with anymore. He gets so angry his eyes bug out out of his head and he screams profanities with spittle coming out of his mouth if he gets cut off or anything else he imagines as a road injustice against him. I keep telling him, "dude, you're just begging to get shot....or followed and beaten to death. Otherwise, he's kind of a chill guy.

And I'll tell you something else. If I was on the mainland and there was a peaceful demonstration going on - I wouldn't go anywhere even close to it. People seem way more nuts in groups these days. Scares me.
 

Anarax

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Given that it seems there is more propensity to violence nowadays, and more situations where firearms are involved, does that change your calculus where it concerns self-defense?
It makes me more cautious than anything else. Many of those situations were over minor meaningless things. Working in forensics also helped me to see the reality of what weapons(mostly knives and firearms) can do to the human body.
Personally, I try to avoid violence wherever possible, based on the reasoning that in a physical altercation, anything can happen, planned or unplanned. You throw a punch in a road rage situation, the guy falls down and hits his head, freak accident, he's dead and you might be going to prison. Situation reversed and your spouse and family may have to face a lifetime without you because you were wiling to fight over an improper lane change on the highway or something equally rediculous.
Yes, many people don't bother thinking of the chaotic nature of an altercation and how ugly/lethal it can become.
I was recently involved in a road rage incident. Normally I am a very laid-back driver. I just don't let people get to me. If someone tailgates me, I move over and let them pass. I don't get hot under the collar, etc. However, recently I was bringing my wife home from surgery and she was still coming out of anesthesia and I was worried about her. Some idiot started tailgating me, charging up on me and flashing his lights, etc. I pulled to one side, he passed, I flipped him off. At the next intersection, he blocked me in and challenged me to fight. I got angry and wanted to fight him also. If my wife had not made it clear that she did not want this happening, I believe I would have. Dude appeared to be a construction worker, at least 40 years my junior, in good physical condition. Don't know if he knew how to fight or not, but he kept calling me out and calling me 'old man' and I really wanted to take him to school. If I could, of course. I finally calmed down enough to just drive away. He followed us for awhile and then disappeared. I'm still concerned I'll run into him again at some point.
Thank you for sharing and being honest about your experience. I've been there numerous times, I think most people have. We all find ourselves at the wrong moment where we are more inclined to respond emotionally than others. I probably would've responded similarly in your situation with my wife post-surgery in the car with me.
But frankly, letting myself get upset and willing to fight was a primitive reaction, and a stupid self-destructive one. It would have proved nothing. If I had been seriously hurt or killed, my wife would have nearly nothing to survive on; we're not rich, I don't have a lot to leave her. If the guy had had a gun...well, you know. If I had hurt or killed him, possible bigtime legal consequences for me. Lawyer's bills, loss of income, etc, and that's at the very minimum. I don't need to be going to the cross-bar hotel at my age.
I've looked back and analyzed how things could've played out with a less favorable outcome. I've done so to see what it was that triggered me and how to learn from it.
But other than that, which I am not proud of, I have been letting people get as mad as they want and then just letting it pass. Staying calm and focused. If I am attacked, of course I will defend myself. But only in those circumstances. Words won't make me fight. They nearly did, but I got over it.
I'm still working my way to that level you're at. I can contain and control myself when certain behaviors/words are directed at me. However, I have a hair-trigger if it's directed at a loved one. Still working on it though :)
How are you handling this? Have you changed your outlook? Have you noticed what I have noticed? Interested in your responses.
An old saying my kickboxing coach taught me "Don't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you. I train, stay prepared, try and stay cool until/if trouble happens. If so, I'll respond the best as I can with what I know at the time.
 

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On the none political end, notice all the violence in the movies and video games. Most people know better it's not real......BUT only takes a few to confuse with the reality, that's enough to cause more violence. I just watched 3 parts series of movie John Wick, the story can be told in 15 minutes, then the rest are shooting people.....BANG BANG BANG.....the last shot at the head and you see blood spraying out from the back of the head and splatter on the wall. All the special effect glorifying violence really doesn't help.

I have been catching up with movies of the last 15 years as I don't watch movie before, I am absolutely surprised how bad the new movies are. Other than violence, there are almost no plots.
 

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I would agree violence is on the rise, however I would be hesitant to say gun violence is on the rise. I think there could be a Baader- Mainhof effect going on. I would want to see the empirical data before I started thinking the sky is falling.

The presence of a weapon does not change how I perceive or would respond to violence as it has always been my main concern. To often people are attacked and do not realize a weapon is involved until its too late. I feel it's best to assume the presence of a weapon until proven otherwise. Kinda like assuming the gun is always loaded. Default to the side of greater risk.
 

isshinryuronin

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I have taught in jr. high and high school classrooms, and trust me, it is not like us older guys remember. I never heard a student say, "F*** you" to a teacher or completely ignore him/her when given a direction when I went to school, much less physically attack them. Forty years ago this was unthinkable. How many times have you seen a parent not discipline a bratty kid and let him rampage as he wishes.

Guns have always been around; the desire and will to use them is what's different. Guns and their use is not a cause of violence, just one manifistation of it. There has always been poverty, but the way people handle it and strive to overcome it has perhaps changed. The opportunities are there, but not appreciated and utilized.

Society is different. Expectations have been lowered and respect to authority has eroded. Teachers (and now, increasingly, cops) have had the ability to enforce the rules taken away from them. Criminals face lighter sentences. No wonder there is more violence - Accountability for one's actions has become a foreign concept. Without that, there is no downside to breaking the rules.

Lack of self-discipline and respect is a big part of the problem. Just so happens that these two qualities are a foundation of TMA. TMA is worth it just to develop these qualities, and increasingly, to learn how to defend oneself.
 

Buka

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I have taught in jr. high and high school classrooms, and trust me, it is not like us older guys remember. I never heard a student say, "F*** you" to a teacher or completely ignore him/her when given a direction when I went to school, much less physically attack them. Forty years ago this was unthinkable. How many times have you seen a parent not discipline a bratty kid and let him rampage as he wishes.

Guns have always been around; the desire and will to use them is what's different. Guns and their use is not a cause of violence, just one manifistation of it. There has always been poverty, but the way people handle it and strive to overcome it has perhaps changed. The opportunities are there, but not appreciated and utilized.

Society is different. Expectations have been lowered and respect to authority has eroded. Teachers (and now, increasingly, cops) have had the ability to enforce the rules taken away from them. Criminals face lighter sentences. No wonder there is more violence - Accountability for one's actions has become a foreign concept. Without that, there is no downside to breaking the rules.

Lack of self-discipline and respect is a big part of the problem. Just so happens that these two qualities are a foundation of TMA. TMA is worth it just to develop these qualities, and increasingly, to learn how to defend oneself.
Personally, I've always felt that school teachers should be the highest paid workers in the country.
Still do.
 

Alan0354

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Personally, I've always felt that school teachers should be the highest paid workers in the country.
Still do.
To indoctrinate the kids on all the WOKE and CRT?

There is a saying, " those who can do, do. Those who cannot do, teach". If they go straight into teaching after school, they have NO IDEA how the real world works. We need teachers that have real life working experience to teach.

We had a young EE that cannot design circuits if his life depends on it, after a few years, he decided to get his PhD and go into teaching. Have mercy on the students he's going to be teaching.

I was the manager of engineering, I hired young engineers and technicians, on their first day of work, I told them " whatever you learn in school, leave it at the front door!!"
 
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Buka

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To indoctrinate the kids on all the WOKE and CRT?

There is a saying, " those who can do, do. Those who cannot do, teach". If they go straight into teaching after school, they have NO IDEA how the real world works. We need teachers that have real life working experience to teach.

We had a young EE that cannot design circuits if his life depends on it, after a few years, he decided to get his PhD and go into teaching. Have mercy on the students he's going to be teaching.

I was the manager of engineering, I hired young engineers and technicians, on their first day of work, I told them " whatever you learn in school, leave it at the front door!!"
I know nothing of WOKE nor CRT. Nor do I care to. I’m thinking of teachers who teach kids from when they first go to school, when they’re blank slates. Teaching them how to read, how to write, how to do mathematics. And all the way through high school, which is particularly difficult because we all know what teenagers are like.

As for the “real world” you bring up a good point. What the education system in this country, or any country for that matter, should do is teach kids how to deal with real life at some point. Teach them how to buy a car, manage credit, buy a house, care for aging parents, raise kids, deal with politicians, deal with each other, deal with everything.

But that’s sure as hell won’t happen here in the States. The Powers That Be doesn't really want the country educated, nor prepared for life. Because if they were, they’d change the system and all the ash hats in D.C would be out of a job.

I Thank God for teachers. I really do.
 

Alan0354

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I know nothing of WOKE nor CRT. Nor do I care to. I’m thinking of teachers who teach kids from when they first go to school, when they’re blank slates. Teaching them how to read, how to write, how to do mathematics. And all the way through high school, which is particularly difficult because we all know what teenagers are like.

As for the “real world” you bring up a good point. What the education system in this country, or any country for that matter, should do is teach kids how to deal with real life at some point. Teach them how to buy a car, manage credit, buy a house, care for aging parents, raise kids, deal with politicians, deal with each other, deal with everything.

But that’s sure as hell won’t happen here in the States. The Powers That Be doesn't really want the country educated, nor prepared for life. Because if they were, they’d change the system and all the ash hats in D.C would be out of a job.

I Thank God for teachers. I really do.
Do you know they are talking about cutting math and instead indoctrinate kids with political stuffs? I came here almost 50 years ago from Hong Kong to go to college, I thought what happen to the people here, how come they are so slow in simple calculations and common sense in science. Now, people have been telling me the education is getting a lot worst than before. My god, what happened?

Like I said, I did hiring and read a lot of resumes. I would like to hire Americans first ( can be from different countries, but more Americanized) instead of people just came over from other countries. I can't find any!!!! I called the first American in, he was good, but he want higher wages than I budged for, so I had to let him go. Imagine a stack of resumes for the EE position, almost all have foreign names. At least I want to find someone that has a western name like Steve, Mike, Alan, John etc. None!!! What happened to the education here? High tech is the future of this world and has very high average pay, look at companies in Silicon valley, dominated by Chinese, Indians(from India), Russians, Middle East people............Where are the Americans?( again, I am not talking about whites, just people that born or at least Americanized). Companies I worked for, English is almost a secondary language. You really can get by speaking Chinese ( now, before you say anything, I am a Chinese from Hong Kong. BUT I AM AN AMERICAN).

Education system here is just sad. What the hell students are learning. Now they want to eliminate SAT and all the test. If it is not for the foreigners coming to this country, who is going to fill the high end jobs? Don't trust me, do some research in what is the people make up of all the high tech high pay jobs. People complain why we give so many H1 visa, because we CAN'T find qualified people here to do the job. It is sad.

When I first attending USF, I thought what kind of joke was that, the whole freshman year, I hardly have to study. I only complete grade 11 in Hong Kong, we covered a lot of the first year college already. It was not later on that I found out USF is a private college and it's no joke( It's still a total joke to me). people are just slow, they don't have the basic common sense math and science knowledge. Like they can't even do simple calculation even using their 10 fingers and 10 toes to count!!! All the free tuition, grants and loans, people take the easy route studying English, History, Sociology............What jobs do you expect to get after graduation. We don't produce quality science student that is so important for this country to survive. Then those stupid graduates complain they can't find jobs!!! There are jobs, high pay jobs calling out loud for qualified people, we have to grant H1 visa to bring foreigners here to do the jobs, then take the knowledge home to their countries. Now they want to cut math, which is the language of science.(yes, the advanced physics are explain in calculus, not English). You don't know math, you can't even read those advanced books. A lot of electronics are physics, like communication, wifi, settlelite communications, internet etc.
 
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Tez3

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It seems MT has become a place where posters can again write their political rants. It didn't end well last time. I don't want to see racist rants on here (or anywhere). I don't want to see gross intolerance either. No, I'm not going to scroll past either, we either speak up or we are excusing such behaviour.
On a post about about anger we get an example of just that anger, the unjust rant against about everything they think is wrong. Quite sad to see someone slag their country off like this.
 

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This is strange...as all of these thoughts are pretty common in life. I think with the advent of the ability to access information so easily these days, it just seems as if it's increasing.

Violence depends on the town you live in, and in some cities, they are everyday occurrences.

It's simply easier to access the news these days. But, nothing has really changed.
 

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ATTENTION ALL USERS:

This is not the correct forum for your political posts. The correct forum is HERE. Move it over there.
Thread locked pending staff review.

Mark A. Cochran
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