Quality In The Arts

[paulk]

Any thoughts on the quality of instruction in similar styles out there.

Got two new students from other similar styles of Jujitsu recently.

One a Nidan joined us a few months ago quite good.

The other a green belt that turned up last night and can run rings around the Nidan.

Makes you think!

 

[IFAJKD]

I think a good place to start is with the previous Instructor. How did they get to where they are and how long did it take. BJJ vs other ground fighting systems have very different approaches to advancement. Today's fast food amrtial arts culture places more emphasis it seems in end result vs process. In tha past I have met the best students when they have focused on gaining attributes vs gaining a multitude of techniques. Just food for thought

 

[Cthulhu]

I think also that some black belts get complacent after attaining that rank, while the lower ranked students are still 'hungry'.

However, the method of instruction is important as well. Perhaps one instructor concentrated more on actual application and practice.

Like it's already been said, different schools have different standards regarding grading as well...even within the same system. My instructor rates me higher than some of the other black belts in the system. I've seen a Shorin ryu black belt who couldn't hold his own with me back when I was a blue belt.

That being said, the most important factor is the student. The teacher may be good, the method of instruction may be good, but if the student is lacking, then none of the good will 'rub off'.

My instructor says that good students are harder to come by than good instructors.

Cthulhu

 

[Despairbear]

Also depends on the school. I could start a dojo and not give a white belt for 5 years. The next belt would come after another 10 years. My students would tend to be above the grade for most schools.

A good student is harder to find than a good teacher, I really like that........



Despair Bear

 

[sparky]

I have heard that - when the student is ready the teacher shall appear

 

[IFAJKD]

as fate may have it, I actually have been witness to that fact. In my life I have always been introduced to an Instructor when I was ready to receive what they were teaching. The trick is to be open to this and not look in the typical places or in many ways not look at all. Just happens

 

[Rob_Broad]

The probelm is no two schools view a students ability the same. The other thing each person has a different level of ability, not everyone is as good as everyone else. Should we tell someone they can't be a black belt because they can't jump up and throw a spinnimng hook kick at 8 ft in the air, but they can teach 20 others to do it. We should also judge people on how much they have improved since they began.

 

[Despairbear]

I agree, by what criteria are ranks awarded? I don't think you can set a universal level for any rank, too many vairables. As for skill I think that that must be determined by the instructor, I do not belive ranks should be given out but they must be earned. It is my opinon that not all people CAN reach "black belt" some people simply will not be able to develop the skill required not matter how hard they work.



Despair Bear

 

[vincefuess]

I have a friend named Allen who operates a JuJutsu school here under Carlos Machado. This school trains fighters, it's goal is not commercial success. These guys live, eat, and breathe training! I for one could not survive a week in their regimen.

They went to a tourney recently which was hosting a JuJutsu division. It was divided into weight classes, so you had mixed ranks competing. One of Allens blue belts was paired with 3rd dan, and mopped the mat with him in less than 30 seconds. Not a "lucky" win- he solidly dominated the guy. The 3rd dan got pissed, I mean really pissed, and loudly accused the guy of "sandbagging" his rank to make him look bad (which was stupid to begin with, because like I said it was weight class competition). The blue belt was sixteen years old and had trained with Allen for two years. His only other experience (I believe) was he was on the high school wrestling team. The 3rd dan was about 30-35 years old and had trained his whole life (so he said- I don't know the guy). Allen handed him his card and suggested he visit the school.

The way it looked to me was the blue belt trained at a school wherein they trained in a manner to which you would train to compete at the UFC- they trained VERY hard and they fight for hours every day- hard, bruising, sweaty mat-time. The methods they use are stripped down to only what works and they are single-minded in their objective. The 3rd dan obviously trained in traditional Japanese JuJutsu in a very traditional way. I'm not saying one way is better than the other, but the traditional guy was not prepared for what he faced that day.

I just wanted to share this story, as it follows along with the subject of the thread.

 

[Nightingale]

hmm.... interesting.....

 

[feintem]

It is not the art. Or weather it is traditional or not it is that BJJ,Kickboxers, and Boxers train for the battle.Martial artist practice.



Michael

 

[MJS]

IMO, its the quality of the student and the Inst. that is going to make the difference.

Mike

 

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by feintem
It is not the art. Or weather it is traditional or not it is that BJJ,Kickboxers, and Boxers train for the battle.Martial artist practice.
Michael

No...they train for hard competition.

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by feintem
It is not the art. Or weather it is traditional or not it is that BJJ,Kickboxers, and Boxers train for the battle.Martial artist practice.



Michael

Gotta disagree with you on that statement. A martial artist, IE: someone that trains is Kenpo, can definately be a devastating fighter. However, its how they train that is going to make the difference. Do they train with any realism or resistance? Do they try to address many different types of situations? And the list can go on and on. If its more of a sport oriented art, then I'd have to say that yes, if they did get into a fight with a kickboxer, chances are that the kickboxer is going to have the upper hand.

Mike

 

[rmcrobertson]

1. You're loading this toward the idea of sparring. As was mentioned, sparring, though important and indeed vital, is not the be-all and end-all of martial arts.

2. Sparring and fighting are not the same things. And neither is the same as self-defense.

3. People age, you know. The good part is, they can get smarter and often learn decency. The bad part is, they lose their interest in kicking the *** of every 16-year-old on the planet--and maybe, they lose the manic quality that often wins in on-the-mat sparring.

4. If a guy was a 3rd in jiujitsu or judo and couldn't handle a blue in some fashion, he or she did NOT train traditionally--unless, of course, they were far smaller.

5. There are some "better," arts, which--providing that other things (size, weight, desire, conditioning, etc.) are equal--will win out over some other arts. An obvious example--I do kenpo; other things being equal, I can take just about anybody who's done tae-bo. But the fact that kenpo is a far-more comprehensive, systematic, logical and teachable martial art ain't gonna help me all that much against, say, James Lew or Rickson Gracie...who are about my age and size, and in whose shape I couldd get with about three months of gawdawful training, but who in the end...might just have a thing or two to show me, if they could stop giggling long enough.

Well, that should provide an argument or two. Thanks.

 

[kenpo2dabone]

I have found that there is no replacement for talent. You can teach two individuals the exact same way and one will undoubtedly be better than the other. Your lower ranking student might simply have more talent than the other. So it might not be that one had better training.

Salute,
Mike Miller UKF

 

[tshadowchaser]

lets take this another way also.
Are they able to pass on their knowledge and how much knowledge is required of them at the same rank in different schools.
I think some of the Kenpo people have talked about this befor but lets get in put from those in TKD, Judo, Shotokan, or whatever style you study in.
Do you have the same requirements as the nearest school to you for the same rank?