Push Hands Fail

[Kung Fu Wang129 159]

And yet you know hoiw I feel, we have had this discussion multiple times in multiple threads..... so don't instigate an issue by stating it agian

I respond your post by saying the following. You attack me for no good reason. Why? Did I attack you in my post? I don't think I did.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. resist -><-
2. yield/sticky/follow ->->
3. interrupt

IMO, 3 is better than 1 and 2.

 

[Xue Sheng120 38]

I respond your post by saying the following. You attack me for no good reason. Why? Did I attack you in my post? I don't think I did.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. resist -><-
2. yield/sticky/follow ->->
3. interrupt

IMO, 3 is better than 1 and 2.

Your question is If A the what is B.... no martial art is that easy. And I did not attack you anymore than any other taijiquan "discussion" we have had.... I can't help it if you do not like the fact that I am not impressed. And you have in multiple posts on MT and other sites attacked Taijiquan, sorry I don't let that go. And why are you surprised, how many times have we been in this situation on MT

 

[Kung Fu Wang129 159]

Your question is If A the what is B.... no martial art is that easy. And I did not attack you anymore than any other taijiquan "discussion" we have had.... I can't help it if you do not like the fact that I am not impressed. And you have in multiple posts on MT and other sites attacked Taijiquan, sorry I don't let that go. And why are you surprised, how many times have we been in this situation on MT

When I said the following, I didn't attack you. So, why did you attack me?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. resist -><-
2. yield/sticky/follow ->->
3. interrupt

IMO, 3 is better than 1 and 2.

 

[Xue Sheng120 38]

1. resist -><-
2. yield/sticky/follow ->->
3. interrupt

IMO, 3 is better than 1 and 2.

taijiquan, 3 is only better if the energy. force, direction is right

When I use my right hand to drag your right arm, if you use your left hand to push on my right elbow joint, you can "interrupt" my right arm dragging. So, when I use "circular" foot work on you, you have to use "straight line" footwork to cut infront of me.

In other words, you have to take the control back.

View attachment 33980

Yes or I could follow and go to 肘 zhǒu (or other things), that is assuming you could get the drag at all, and that is a BIG assumption on your part. Like I sasid, just because you delat with it once, does not mean that is the way everyone will respond

there, is that better

 

[Kung Fu Wang129 159]

taijiquan, 3 is only better if the energy. force, direction is right

Yes or I could follow and go to 肘 zhǒu (or other things), that is assuming you could get the drag at all, and that is a BIG assumption on your part. Like I sasid, just because you delat with it once, does not mean that is the way everyone will respond

there, is that better

You still have not explained why you attack me in this discussion.

 

[Xue Sheng120 38]

You still have not explained why you attack me in this discussion.

Don't play this game. this is nothing new with your posts and my responses on this site and even another (I had a different screen name there). OK "Why do you continually attack taijiquan?" you never explained that either

Since this type of conversation about taijiquan us nothing new, and you know my feelings about you and taijiquan.... why continue.....Can you just drop it and move on..... If you do I will to

 

[Kung Fu Wang129 159]

Don't play this game. this is nothing new with your posts and my responses on this site and even another (I had a different screen name there). OK "Why do you continually attack taijiquan?" you never explained that either

Since this type of conversation about taijiquan us nothing new, and you know my feelings about you and taijiquan.... why continue.....Can you just drop it and move on..... If you do I will to

You can always attack my opinion. You don't need to attack me as a person.

 

[Xue Sheng120 38]

You can always attack my opinion. You don't need to attack me as a person.

I am attacking your opinion, and your opinion is wrong in most things taijiuquan. Now either cease and desist with this harassment or I will have to take additional action

 

[Kung Fu Wang129 159]

You do not understand it, and likely never will.

I am attacking your opinion,

I started my Taiji training when I was 7. That was 81 years ago. I had 3 Taiji teachers in my life.

1. Taiji for health.
2. CMC Taiji.
3. Chang Taiji.

When you said that I don't understand Taiji and never will. It's a big insult on my 81 years of Taiji experience.

When you said that, you are not attacking my opinion. You are attacking me in person.

The thing that bothers me the most is, I have never said that your Taiji is good or bad. I do think I have treated all MT members with respect. I do expect the same respect in return.

 

[Xue Sheng120 38]

I started my Taiji training when I was 7. That was 81 years ago. I had 3 Taiji teachers in my life.

1. Taiji for health.
2. CMC Taiji.
3. Chang Taiji.

When you said that I don't understand Taiji and never will. It's a big insult on my 81 years of Taiji experience.

When you said that, you are not attacking my opinion. You are attacking me in person.

The thing that bothers me the most is, I have never said that your Taiji is good or bad. I do think I have treated all MT members with respect. I do expect the same respect in return.

I have had enough of this.....

 

[Kung Fu Wang129 159]

I have had enough of this.....

You attack me and you say you have enough of this ...

 

[jks9199100 24]

Thread locked, pending Staff Review.

While that process is ongoing, let's all try to remember that Martial Talk is supposed to be a friendly place, where we can discuss issues but not attack each other. Nuance is often lost in text exchanges, and communicating some of these concepts textually is even harder...

jks9199
MT Admin

 

[jks9199100 24]

Thread locked, pending Staff Review.

While that process is ongoing, let's all try to remember that Martial Talk is supposed to be a friendly place, where we can discuss issues but not attack each other. Nuance is often lost in text exchanges, and communicating some of these concepts textually is even harder...

jks9199
MT Admin

Thread unlocked. Keep things cool, okay?

 

[Same Trick74 25]

I started my Taiji training when I was 7. That was 81 years ago. I had 3 Taiji teachers in my life.

1. Taiji for health.
2. CMC Taiji.
3. Chang Taiji.

do Chang Taiji practice push hands ? I’m thinking Chang Taiji is more aligned with wrestling and maybe so view wrestling as a substitute for push hands ?

 

[windwalker099129 159]

Thanks to all who contributed to the thread.

We all share a passion for the work. I think we often approach it like the wise ones in the picture — each describing only our own experience.

There’s value in that, and in appreciating the different views that come with it.

 

[Anarax1]

Interesting. .

In your opinion, what would you advise them to practice to correct this?
You mentioned that the practitioners were highly skilled. What led you to believe they were highly skilled?

The same kind of comments could also be made about CMA in general, where the distinctiveness of the practices is often not reflected in actual use.

Drill positions and setups to utilize their skills. Learn the techniques inside/out and understanding how the techniques work. Give two training partners different roles, one is attacking using x techniques(punches, grabs, takedowns, etc), not just CMA based attacks, the other incorporates chi sao and sensitivity to defend/counter against said attacks. Increase resistance and pressure to condition the proper responses under stress. The attacker has to know what they're doing and their attacks need to be realistic.


Show how to incorporate the skills and setups in free sparring. Demonstrate how the skills can be utilized from different entries and positions.Teach how to setup entries with footwork to achieve advantageous positioning where said skills will be most effective. Adapt and flow from disadvantageous positions to advantageous ones.

 

[Anarax1]

This sounds like how I train. Purpose and function.

"I've touched hands with practioners who were highly skilled in push hands and chi sao, but couldn't incorporate those skills even in light sparring."

I've seen this myself. The bigger issue for me was A vs A. Those in the system were good with applying their techniques against others within the system but did not do well with A vs B and applying them against those outside of the system.

And I believe nothing highlighted this as much as CMA vs MMA years ago. That was a big wake up call. One that I was glad that hit the Kung Fu world the hardest. The good news is that I've seen a significant changes. It appears that Purpose and Function are now the higher priority.

Exactly, there are useful things to be gained from chi sao/push hands. It's a matter of functionalizing it against live opponents and utilizing it against different skill sets.

 

[Xue Sheng120 38]

Exactly, there are useful things to be gained from chi sao/push hands. It's a matter of functionalizing it against live opponents and utilizing it against different skill sets.

glad you mentioned push hands and chi sao. many years ago, before covid, I was meeting with a group of Wing Chun guys and they were doing Chi Sau and I was doing push hands, it was an interesting learning experience for both sides of the equation.

fast forward a few years, I was doing some wing chun, and I went to a push hands seminar. There were some very good practitioners there. One, no matter what I did, I cold not find his center and he was alway uprooting me. I decided to try Chi sau. He was not use to a small verticle circle and I was able to uproot him. Of course, it only happened once, he would not let me get to that again, he would change direction on me.

 

[Kung Fu Wang129 159]

do Chang Taiji practice push hands ? I’m thinking Chang Taiji is more aligned with wrestling and maybe so view wrestling as a substitute for push hands ?

 

[windwalker099129 159]

Liked the moving step demos
Single hand fixed step not as easy as one would think