Protect and serve?

Makalakumu

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According to the statistics, if you are victim of violent crime in this country, the perp is going to get off. According to statistics, if someone steals your property, they are going to get away. In an emergency, it's going to take at least ten minutes for the cops to show up even if they are in the vicinity. By these major metrics, I think it's safe to say that government funded policing simply isn't very effective.

A solution is for people to help each other more, to take care of each other better, to know more about self protection and basic emergency care. I realize that this seems like loony toons to most people, but when you consider all of the arcane stuff that is found in most of the government schooling standards, you'd probably question that. Imagine if students all had to get basic first aid and CPR instead of taking algebra 2? How about some community safety courses instead of the social studies garbage where they teach you about how Columbus was so great?

There is no easy solution here, but it should also be recognized that more cops or more money for cops or more gear or more power for cops isn't a solution either. It's not working.
 

ballen0351

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According to the statistics, if you are victim of violent crime in this country, the perp is going to get off.
According to statistics, if someone steals your property, they are going to get away. In an emergency, it's going to take at least ten minutes for the cops to show up even if they are in the vicinity. By these major metrics, I think it's safe to say that government funded policing simply isn't very effective.
Depends on where you live. Our average responce time last year to 911 calls was around 4 mins. We solved 90% of all our homicides and serious assaults, and sex offenses.

Since you seem to have all the answers a typical property crime here is You leave you car unlocked and your GPS in the window. Some guy walks buy opens your door grabs the GPS and walks away. You get up in the morning and see its gone but your late for work so you go to work. Come home 10 hours later and report your GPS is stolen. So you tell me how to solve that?
A solution is for people to help each other more,
Good luck with that. How do you force people to care?
to take care of each other better, to know more about self protection and basic emergency care. I realize that this seems like loony toons to most people, but when you consider all of the arcane stuff that is found in most of the government schooling standards, you'd probably question that. Imagine if students all had to get basic first aid and CPR instead of taking algebra 2? How about some community safety courses instead of the social studies garbage where they teach you about how Columbus was so great?
dude have you been reading anything about our schools? They suspend you for eating a pop tart wrong.
There is no easy solution here, but it should also be recognized that more cops or more money for cops or more gear or more power for cops isn't a solution either. It's not working.
So change it. Lead the charge stop crying about your lack of power and do something. But you would rather blow smoke about some dream land where people love each other and care and crime goes away and cry on the internet about mean old cops.
 

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I just want to say from the bottom of my heart thank you to all members of the law enforcement community. It's dangerous and often unappreciated work. You have always been there for me when I called and have occasionally reminded me that if I didn't slow my car down I could kill somebody.

Once I was able to subdue an attacker but ended up in a stalemate with the attacker pinned. You police came and restrained said attacker and took them away so they couldn't hurt me or my family anymore.

While I think many state and federal programs are complete hogwash I have always believed that a strong and above all professional police department is one of the key's to our society. I realize that you can't be everywhere all the time but I know that in my life when I called, you came.

Thanks for doing what you do.

Jon
 

bushidomartialarts

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I'd throw this bone into the conversation.

Yes modern US police are more professional, more highly trained than ever before. And they're under more scrutiny by internal and external oversight to eliminate the kind of violence and corruption that was more common in past decades.

but...

Community policing is rarer now than before (though some cities have been bringing it back in the past 10 years or so). What used to be a cop or three who patrolled a given neighborhood and knew all the business owners and most of the residents is now cars that cruise by without making those positive interactions that made us all feel like we were on the same team. In most of the US, the police feel more like an occupying army than a part of the community. That's not the fault of the police, who for the most part are good guys doing their best in a ****** situation with insufficient funds and barely sufficient training. But it is a factor in this conversation.

It's also true that the law doesn't serve the average citizen anymore. If you're in the bottom 75% of US income, you don't really have meaningful effect on which laws get passed and can't afford a lawyer big enough to protect your rights. Plus there's the whole YouTube thing where everybody gets to see the bad apples being bad, but nobody bothers to post a recording of a cop showing up and saving the damn day, or just being nice to a kid or grandmother.


Again, this isn't the cops' fault. Cops aren't worse now than in the past...but yeah, the relationship between the cops and the civilians is pretty bad. Not the cops' fault (except at a high-level policy level the beat police have nothing to do with), not really the citizens' either. Just a sad state of affairs with no clear answer.
 

Makalakumu

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I just want to say from the bottom of my heart thank you to all members of the law enforcement community. It's dangerous and often unappreciated work. You have always been there for me when I called and have occasionally reminded me that if I didn't slow my car down I could kill somebody.

Once I was able to subdue an attacker but ended up in a stalemate with the attacker pinned. You police came and restrained said attacker and took them away so they couldn't hurt me or my family anymore.

While I think many state and federal programs are complete hogwash I have always believed that a strong and above all professional police department is one of the key's to our society. I realize that you can't be everywhere all the time but I know that in my life when I called, you came.

Thanks for doing what you do.

Jon

One thing to consider here is a common argument against socialism. It's the idea that it leads to an entitlement mentality because the government is expected to provide a service and this removes responsibility from the individual. People always apply this welfare and education when discussing public vs private debate. I think this could also apply to public safety. People are more careless, more selfish, and more lazy when it comes to community and protection because they just expect the cops to do it. In fact, the mentality is so bad that most people simply think that all they need to do is pass a law and some kind of problem they don't like will suddenly be fixed.

This is why it's so important for people to understand how ineffective all of this really is. Government policing is just like any other government program in that regard. It cannot accomplish all of the things it's supposed to accomplish. The bottom line is that socialism just doesn't work very well and this applies to the socialized cops as well.
 

Makalakumu

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Private security is just a matter of whose mafia is bigger, badder, and more brutal in this context.

http://www.salon.com/2011/10/07/the_nypd_now_sponsored_by_wall_street/

[h=2]Financial firms have given millions of dollars to the department, raising the ire of Occupy Wall St. protesters[/h]



I think you really need to take a look at what is actually happening in the US, because the police are essentially transforming themselves into the same kind of thugs you'd find in Mexico. They are government employees who take money and enforce the "wishes" of the bigger, badder, and more brutal mafias. This isn't happening everywhere, but I'm afraid it will just become more and more common until people make the fundamental connection that governments are actually easier to corrupt and harder to change than private industry.

This is the behavior that the Wall Street Banksters bought.

LIZ-NICHOLS-OCCUPY-PORTLAND-PEPPER-SPRAY.jpg


"The nail that sticks up, get's hammered down." Japanese Proverb. Student meets the hammer.
 

ballen0351

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Heres the thing. There are no Stats to prove how much crime we prevent. Joe Dirts walking down the street planning to rob someone. I ride by see Joe Dirt acting suspicious. I stop and ask Joe Dirt what hes up too. He says nothing and walks home because he knows I noticed him so he doesnt rob anyone. There are no stats for the Drunk Driver that didnt kill a family because I stopped him first. There are no stats for crimes that dont happen by our mere presence.
 

Makalakumu

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Heres the thing. There are no Stats to prove how much crime we prevent. Joe Dirts walking down the street planning to rob someone. I ride by see Joe Dirt acting suspicious. I stop and ask Joe Dirt what hes up too. He says nothing and walks home because he knows I noticed him so he doesnt rob anyone. There are no stats for the Drunk Driver that didnt kill a family because I stopped him first. There are no stats for crimes that dont happen by our mere presence.

True, but I still don't think the government police could ever compete with this when it comes to crime prevention.

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/r...nge-burglar-shotgun-hand-video/#axzz2iJfeh2rr

Gilbert Nunez had already burglarized Paul Cavazo’s condo twice before, and was getting ready to make the third time a charm when this time his luck ran out. Cavazo pulled his trusty sidekick, a .12 gauge shotgun out and pointed the business end at Nunez telling him to drop the TV and kiss the grass. Security camera footage shows a very compliant Nunez laying down after looking down that cold, black barrel. ’I grabbed my shotgun. You know, I’ve been thinking about this for a long time,’ Cavazo said.
The thief had been making the rounds in the neighborhood and robbed many of the neighbors as well. The entire event was captured on surveillance camera provided by KSAT12

It's astounding that this taxpayer has to have money taken through taxation to "pay" for "protection" from government police who can do nothing to actually stop the crime in his neighborhood. The only thing that actually stopped this problem was when the homeowner reclaimed his responsibility for protection of his property and decided to not wait around for the government to solve his problem.
 

arnisador

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Heres the thing. There are no Stats to prove how much crime we prevent. Joe Dirts walking down the street planning to rob someone. I ride by see Joe Dirt acting suspicious. I stop and ask Joe Dirt what hes up too. He says nothing and walks home because he knows I noticed him so he doesnt rob anyone. There are no stats for the Drunk Driver that didnt kill a family because I stopped him first. There are no stats for crimes that dont happen by our mere presence.

Surely you can get some measure of this by looking at police per capita and crime rates.
 

ballen0351

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Surely you can get some measure of this by looking at police per capita and crime rates.
I dont know because geographic location and economic make up of communities make up a big part of crime numbers. 2 small towns I worked in when I first started police work. They are 12 miles apart, both about the same size and same population. Same size police depts as well. Only difference is one is poor and the other was above average income

The wealthy city from 2000-2010 crime stats
size 7.2 sq miles population 14096
avg household income $56,876
Homicide -4
Rapes-58
Burglaries- 1058
Robberies- 190
Assaults-565


the poor city
size 8.4 sq miles population 12876
avg household income $34,412
Homicides-11
Rapes- 60
Burglaries-1469
Robberies- 296
Assaults- 1024

I know for a fact the poor city alters its crime stat numbers to make them lower and under reports them.
 

ballen0351

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True, but I still don't think the government police could ever compete with this when it comes to crime prevention.

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/r...nge-burglar-shotgun-hand-video/#axzz2iJfeh2rr

[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
It's astounding that this taxpayer has to have money taken through taxation to "pay" for "protection" from government police who can do nothing to actually stop the crime in his neighborhood. The only thing that actually stopped this problem was when the homeowner reclaimed his responsibility for protection of his property and decided to not wait around for the government to solve his problem.
your right who needs the Police lets get rid of them all that will make the world a much better place:duh:
you should run for office on that platform

PS Ive personally stopped more burglaries then 1 myself
 

ballen0351

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True, but I still don't think the government police could ever compete with this when it comes to crime prevention.

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/r...nge-burglar-shotgun-hand-video/#axzz2iJfeh2rr

[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
It's astounding that this taxpayer has to have money taken through taxation to "pay" for "protection" from government police who can do nothing to actually stop the crime in his neighborhood. The only thing that actually stopped this problem was when the homeowner reclaimed his responsibility for protection of his property and decided to not wait around for the government to solve his problem.

By the way what happens n your world after you catch these bad guys? Since you dont want cops involved what do we do with them? I know what Mr Cavazo did in your story did he called the police. But what do you Do?
 
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Makalakumu

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By the way what happens n your world after you catch these bad guys? Since you dont want cops involved what do we do with them? I know what Mr Cavazo did in your story did he called the police. But what do you Do?

Call the privatized Local police who will be catching hell for not serving me better as a customer. If me and my neighbors keep getting victimized, we'll cancel our contracts and pay a competitor.
 

ballen0351

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Call the privatized Local police who will be catching hell for not serving me better as a customer. If me and my neighbors keep getting victimized, we'll cancel our contracts and pay a competitor.
so who pays for local private police?
 

ballen0351

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People who want their business.
And if you dont pay or forget to pay this month and your a victim of a serious crime? What if your out of town on vacation in another state and have never paid that police force?
 
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Tgace

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And if you dont pay or forget to pay this month and your a victim of a serious crime? What if your out of town on vacation in another state and have never paid that police force?

This is loony Ron Paul style libertarianism Balen....it's impossible to impliment, impossible to manage and never really intended to be presented as a realistic solution as much as its used as a platform to rant about the current system and spout bizarre ideologies.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
 

Makalakumu

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And if you dont pay or forget to pay this month and your a victim of a serious crime? What if your out of town on vacation in another state and have never paid that police force?

Why would you forget to pay something so important?
 

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