Proper Kicking

Touch Of Death

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
May 6, 2003
Messages
11,610
Reaction score
846
Location
Spokane Valley WA
Personally I lift my knee up and straight facing twelve o'clock and not as high. Then rotate my hips to get the torque. (on the round kick) I don't lift my knee as high because I don't normally kick that high.
Instead of point, cock, fire, I use the cock, point, fire.
Sean
 

donald

Black Belt
Joined
Jan 12, 2002
Messages
565
Reaction score
3
Location
Lake County,Ohio
As far as the picture sequence goes thats basically how I was taught, and do throw a round kick. The only difference I see in the pictures is that between steps 1, and 2 my knee would be about waist high or so just before the pivot.
 

Touch Of Death

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
May 6, 2003
Messages
11,610
Reaction score
846
Location
Spokane Valley WA
As far as the picture sequence goes thats basically how I was taught, and do throw a round kick. The only difference I see in the pictures is that between steps 1, and 2 my knee would be about waist high or so just before the pivot.
Why?
 

kidswarrior

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 27, 2007
Messages
2,697
Reaction score
152
Location
California
In the hopes of not starting yet another flame war over high kicks, and since this is the ken/mpo and kaju section so maybe we could limit the responses to those of us who practice one of these arts, wonder if I could get some general feedback on how high is too high/just right for kicking? Several posters have mentioned targeting a little lower, and I'd be interested in their ideal range. But please, no flaming. No right answers, no one is wrong. Just want to compare the teaching/experiences others have gotten with my own. :asian:

BTW, since the title of the thread is proper kicking, I believe this certainly fits under the rubric (even though it branched off into the roundhouse for a bit, and joint problems). MJS, as the OP'er, if you'd rather, we can split this off--but then we run the risk of drawing the attention of the full board to the old battle of how high...etc., ad nauseum. Nevertheless, I'll defer to your judgment if it differs.
 

John Bishop

Master Black Belt
MTS Alumni
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
1,157
Reaction score
73
Location
Southern Calif.
Basic rule of thumb in Kajukenbo is, for self defense purposes we don't kick higher then the solar plexus. Probably 90% of the kicks in our set combinations are to the groin or knee. Of course there are always exceptions to all rules.
 

Doc

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2002
Messages
4,235
Reaction score
179
Location
Southern California
In the hopes of not starting yet another flame war over high kicks, and since this is the ken/mpo and kaju section so maybe we could limit the responses to those of us who practice one of these arts, wonder if I could get some general feedback on how high is too high/just right for kicking? Several posters have mentioned targeting a little lower, and I'd be interested in their ideal range. But please, no flaming. No right answers, no one is wrong. Just want to compare the teaching/experiences others have gotten with my own. :asian:

BTW, since the title of the thread is proper kicking, I believe this certainly fits under the rubric (even though it branched off into the roundhouse for a bit, and joint problems). MJS, as the OP'er, if you'd rather, we can split this off--but then we run the risk of drawing the attention of the full board to the old battle of how high...etc., ad nauseum. Nevertheless, I'll defer to your judgment if it differs.
"it makes as much sense to kick a guy standing up in the head, as it does to bend down and punch them in the foot." - Ed Parker Sr.

That being said, I witnessed an exchange between another stylist known for their high sport kicking, who while visiting at Parker's home, chose to challenge Mr. Parker about his ability to kick high.

Parker said, "Well, I don't really believe in kicking high, but I can still kick you in the head if I had to." They went back and forth for a moment and the other stylist fell into the trap and made a wager.

"I bet you twenty dollars (a lot of money in those days) you can't kick me in the head." the stylist said, as he removed a twenty dollar bill from his wallet and put it in his shirt pocket. (Foolish men those Koreans) "Here, this is yours if you can do it." he taunted.

Parker said, "Are you sure?' "Positive," he said. "OK." Parker said, "Get in your stance and get ready." The stylist complied and readied himself in what appeared to be a "back stance," leaning rearward just in case he was wrong, I figured.

Parker unleashed a low roundhouse to the back of his forwardleg, knocking him off his feet, than reached over and stepped on his head, removing the money from his pocket. The guy was shocked and protested, "Hey you didn't kick high." Parker replied, "The bet wasn't about kicking high, it was about kicking you in the head." The guy protested to Parker, "You cheated!"

Mr. Parker with a huge grin on his face leaned closer to him, causing him to flinch and lean back a bit, and said in a soft voice while he folded the money and put it in his pocket, "There's no such thing as cheating in a street fight brudda."

I think that about sums up Mr. Parker's perspective. I feel the same.
 

LawDog

Master Black Belt
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
1,324
Reaction score
52
Location
Massachusetts, USA
Most of our kicks are applied from the rib area down to the ankle / foot,(for impact sweeps). We do practice high kicks so that if a situation exists where a high kick has to be applied then you have it on tap.
Example, there are times during a street free fight when one of your arms could become injured so your knee and kicking techniques then would come into play.
 

Doc

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2002
Messages
4,235
Reaction score
179
Location
Southern California
Most of our kicks are applied from the rib area down to the ankle / foot,(for impact sweeps). We do practice high kicks so that if a situation exists where a high kick has to be applied then you have it on tap.
Example, there are times during a street free fight when one of your arms could become injured so your knee and kicking techniques then would come into play.

?
 

Touch Of Death

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
May 6, 2003
Messages
11,610
Reaction score
846
Location
Spokane Valley WA
Most of our kicks are applied from the rib area down to the ankle / foot,(for impact sweeps). We do practice high kicks so that if a situation exists where a high kick has to be applied then you have it on tap.
Example, there are times during a street free fight when one of your arms could become injured so your knee and kicking techniques then would come into play.
Wouldn't that make things even worse? If your arms are broken and you start high kicking you are probably going to fall, but you can't break-fall because your arms are broken...
Sean
 

kenpofighter

Green Belt
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
164
Reaction score
8
Location
Atlanta Ga, USA
Unless you are extremely fast with your feet, it all ways seems to me that by kicking up high you are totally leaving yourself wide open. Like I said unless your really fast, I am grabbing that foot if you put it in my face and your going down, (to practice your break-falls lol). Or will block and what an opening to ridge-hand (or whatever you want to do, punch for all I care) the groin!
 

LawDog

Master Black Belt
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
1,324
Reaction score
52
Location
Massachusetts, USA
The point that I was trying to make is simply this, if your arm/hand gets injured during a fight then you might have to resort to a full battery of kicks.
If ever we meet I will show you the various stap wounds that I have on my right and left hands, (even my face). I understand what it is like not to have full use of your arms / hands.
I, as I often do, did not correctly right what I was thinking.
Doc,
You couldn't resist, if you didn't understand my last post you could of simply sent a pm to me instead of that cute little "?". I admitt that I do not always write as well as you but if i can muttle through all of you over inflated sentances I am sure that you, with your higher level of education could of figured out mine.
I think that the next time that either you of I are in the others area we should meet so that we can discuss our differences, yes - no?
:duh:
 

LawDog

Master Black Belt
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
1,324
Reaction score
52
Location
Massachusetts, USA
p.s.
For every point of view there are often many, "what if's" of "I could do this if you do that". During a street fight situation there is no such thing as a correct technique. In the street you will encounter,
*Trained "sport" contact fighters,
*Trained contact fighters, non sport,
*Military trained fighters,
*Law enforcement trained fighters,
*Prison inmates that were trained by their fellow inmates,
*Experienced street fighters,
*Unexperienced fighters,
*Fighters that use various types of weapons,
*Fighters that do not care if you live or die,
and the list goes on.
So what technique is really correct for the street then?
 

Doc

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2002
Messages
4,235
Reaction score
179
Location
Southern California
The point that I was trying to make is simply this, if your arm/hand gets injured during a fight then you might have to resort to a full battery of kicks.
Although I agree, I don't feel unleashing a plethora of high kicks is effective whether limbs are injured or not. Under these circumstance it would appear on its face, the best option would be to resort to the most effective and efficient use of the available weapons over questionable tactics. At least that is how I see it.
If ever we meet I will show you the various stap wounds that I have on my right and left hands, (even my face). I understand what it is like not to have full use of your arms / hands.
Sorry to hear you have had such experiences, but glad that you managed to survive. I've been fortunate enough to survive living and working essentially in South Central Los Angeles the bulk of my law enforcement career without being shot, cut, or stabbed and injury free while watching others go down. I'm truly happy you survived your unfortunate ordeals.
I, as I often do, did not correctly right what I was thinking.
I think that happens to everyone, so ....
Doc,
You couldn't resist, if you didn't understand my last post you could of simply sent a pm to me instead of that cute little "?".
Couldn't resist? Ok, now I see. The statement would seem to imply something other than my intent of simply conveying that I didn't understanding what you were attempting to say. Whatever the implication, it is incorrect. I am not sure if I had sent the "?" through a PM it would have been received any better, if that is the case. I don't take "shots" at people, and I thought it was reasonable. It is unfortunate you took it that way, because it was not my intent.
I admitt that I do not always write as well as you but if i can muttle through all of you over inflated sentances I am sure that you, with your higher level of education could of figured out mine.
Well actually, if I had understood it would have not been necessary, and I do not initiate PM's. I'm far to busy with work to add initiated sidebars to my participation.

At any rate, I'm not want to apologize for my writing style when it comes to conveying information, and expressing my opinions to those who might be interested. The nice thing about this forum is, within established rules of decorum, it allows everyone to express themselves in a manner they feel comfortable with, to others who find it comfortable as well, and the freedom to not participate with anyone with which they find discomfort.

Please take note you are the first to complain about my writing. Perhaps, if you don't like the style you should add me to your ignore list. I will understand, and I promise you I will not take offense, but I write to a broader group of highly intelligent participants who frequent these boards who recognize everything cannot always be simplified for the sake of the few who might not get it.

I teach my classes the exact same way, and anyone who cannot keep up will ultimately study with someone else. Much like this forum, participation is voluntary and no one is obligated to subject themselves to anything they find distasteful.

You should also take note that you can't have it both ways. You complain you must ".. muttle through all of (my) over inflated sentances.." but take offense with the shortest sentence I could possibly write for some (perceived) slight.

I'm sorry but I cannot spend my time attempting to find the correct length of sentence to fit your education and your sensibilities, without compromising my own.
I think that the next time that either you of I are in the others area we should meet so that we can discuss our differences, yes - no?
:duh:
I have no problem with that, but I warn you in advance, (and others who have met me will testify), that I speak and perform the same as I write - unless you have something else in mind.
 

marlon

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
1,423
Reaction score
37
Location
montreal,canada
"it makes as much sense to kick a guy standing up in the head, as it does to bend down and punch them in the foot." - Ed Parker Sr.

That being said, I witnessed an exchange between another stylist known for their high sport kicking, who while visiting at Parker's home, chose to challenge Mr. Parker about his ability to kick high.

Parker said, "Well, I don't really believe in kicking high, but I can still kick you in the head if I had to." They went back and forth for a moment and the other stylist fell into the trap and made a wager.

"I bet you twenty dollars (a lot of money in those days) you can't kick me in the head." the stylist said, as he removed a twenty dollar bill from his wallet and put it in his shirt pocket. (Foolish men those Koreans) "Here, this is yours if you can do it." he taunted.

Parker said, "Are you sure?' "Positive," he said. "OK." Parker said, "Get in your stance and get ready." The stylist complied and readied himself in what appeared to be a "back stance," leaning rearward just in case he was wrong, I figured.

Parker unleashed a low roundhouse to the back of his forwardleg, knocking him off his feet, than reached over and stepped on his head, removing the money from his pocket. The guy was shocked and protested, "Hey you didn't kick high." Parker replied, "The bet wasn't about kicking high, it was about kicking you in the head." The guy protested to Parker, "You cheated!"

Mr. Parker with a huge grin on his face leaned closer to him, causing him to flinch and lean back a bit, and said in a soft voice while he folded the money and put it in his pocket, "There's no such thing as cheating in a street fight brudda."

I think that about sums up Mr. Parker's perspective. I feel the same.


I love the qoute from GM Parker!! Other than having that quote, given to me, i would say that this is about the same philosophy i was taught by my first 2 kempo instructors...it is also what i teach. We practice high kicks in the drill for flexability and cardio but we train ...differently

respectfully,
Marlon
 

Doc

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2002
Messages
4,235
Reaction score
179
Location
Southern California
I love the qoute from GM Parker!! Other than having that quote, given to me, i would say that this is about the same philosophy i was taught by my first 2 kempo instructors...it is also what i teach. We practice high kicks in the drill for flexability and cardio but we train ...differently

respectfully,
Marlon

For those who reside in "self-defense arts," this would seem to be the pragmatic approach, for purposes of effectiveness as well as long term physical health. High kicking has shown over my martial arts lifetime to be detrimental to long term health in general, as well as a significantly contributing factor to severe knee and hip problems.
 

Doc

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2002
Messages
4,235
Reaction score
179
Location
Southern California
I love the qoute from GM Parker!! Other than having that quote, given to me, i would say that this is about the same philosophy i was taught by my first 2 kempo instructors...it is also what i teach. We practice high kicks in the drill for flexability and cardio but we train ...differently

respectfully,
Marlon
Please consider that whether or not you make contact, high kicks will have the same effect on the joints and hips.
 

DavidCC

Master of Arts
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
Messages
1,938
Reaction score
31
Location
Nebraska
Doc, one thing we never got to was the mechanics of the thrusting side kick. it is heavily used in my material, so I would get a lot of benefit from any details on proper indexing and execution that you would like to share here.

thanks
-D
 

Doc

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2002
Messages
4,235
Reaction score
179
Location
Southern California
Doc, one thing we never got to was the mechanics of the thrusting side kick. it is heavily used in my material, so I would get a lot of benefit from any details on proper indexing and execution that you would like to share here.

thanks
-D

Let's test your memory. The kick is a combination of mechanics. Standing in a left neutral bow, use the left foot index for a roundhouse from the rear with your right leg. However, use the number 1 Index of your leg for a front kick. The kick is then executed laterally from this position by thrusting with the hips while extending the leg, making contact with the heel of the foot.
 

DavidCC

Master of Arts
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
Messages
1,938
Reaction score
31
Location
Nebraska
Let's test your memory. The kick is a combination of mechanics. Standing in a left neutral bow, use the left foot index for a roundhouse from the rear with your right leg. However, use the number 1 Index of your leg for a front kick. The kick is then executed laterally from this position by thrusting with the hips while extending the leg, making contact with the heel of the foot.

OK, I've got the left foot and right leg indices. Trying those out here in betwen cubicles, my left foot "wants" to pivot as I thrust my right foot towards 3. Is that natural, and should I let it?
 
Top