Pressure Point Controvsery

Dirty Dog

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I was taught the popliteal artery is a major concern in knee dislocations and as such. Does it rupture frequently?

Yes, it is a concern. No, it doesn't happen very often. It's just a really big deal when it does happen.

And the tibial fractures I’m referring to are the ones with a gross deformity. Hairline fractures, stress fractures aren’t what I was referring to when I said “as in the shin actually snapping.” Have you seen anyone bear weight on a compound tibial fracture?

I've seen more than one person who walked in with a tibial fracture that would require surgery to repair. Tibial plateau fractures, for example.
I can think of at least one who walked in with a transverse fracture of the distal tibia. He was wearing boots that provided at least some degree of splinting, but still walking.
 

drop bear

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I was thinking the same thing - it may disrupt the other person's advances for a moment or so, but I doubt that it will cut them down entirely. Unless of course, I could turn myself into Hulk. :smug:

I read a bit further along the thread that you can knock out someone by going for the temple & a specific area behind the head. Interesting... :)

Behind the ear is common.
 

drop bear

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Yes, it is a concern. No, it doesn't happen very often. It's just a really big deal when it does happen.



I've seen more than one person who walked in with a tibial fracture that would require surgery to repair. Tibial plateau fractures, for example.
I can think of at least one who walked in with a transverse fracture of the distal tibia. He was wearing boots that provided at least some degree of splinting, but still walking.

OK so when this discussion comes up generally the vegas nerve gets mentioned. Which is a hospital thing.

You ever seen that used?
 

drop bear

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Otherwise the beej uses them a bit. Known as cutters. Bicept and calf.

Pretty reliable submission.
 

JR 137

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Yes, it is a concern. No, it doesn't happen very often. It's just a really big deal when it does happen.



I've seen more than one person who walked in with a tibial fracture that would require surgery to repair. Tibial plateau fractures, for example.
I can think of at least one who walked in with a transverse fracture of the distal tibia. He was wearing boots that provided at least some degree of splinting, but still walking.
Thank you
 

Dirty Dog

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OK so when this discussion comes up generally the vegas nerve gets mentioned. Which is a hospital thing.

You ever seen that used?

I think the Vegas nerve is something people get when they drop too much cash gambling...

However, when you strike the solar plexus, you're stimulating the vagus nerve. Among other things, it controls or partially controls the muscles of the diaphragm and stomach (not the abdomen, the stomache itself) as well as heart rate and blood pressure. Striking it can cause the diaphragm to spasm (knocking the wind out of someone), the stomach to spasm (knocking the lunch out of someone), and drops both heart rate and blood pressure (knocking out someone).

Trivia: One of the most common reasons for seeing someone in the ED for fainting is "bathroom syncope" which is, essentially, stimulation of the vagus nerve by bearing down to poop or (mostly for guys with big prostates...) to pee. Pulse and BP drop, and so does the person.
 

drop bear

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I think the Vegas nerve is something people get when they drop too much cash gambling...

However, when you strike the solar plexus, you're stimulating the vagus nerve. Among other things, it controls or partially controls the muscles of the diaphragm and stomach (not the abdomen, the stomache itself) as well as heart rate and blood pressure. Striking it can cause the diaphragm to spasm (knocking the wind out of someone), the stomach to spasm (knocking the lunch out of someone), and drops both heart rate and blood pressure (knocking out someone).

Trivia: One of the most common reasons for seeing someone in the ED for fainting is "bathroom syncope" which is, essentially, stimulation of the vagus nerve by bearing down to poop or (mostly for guys with big prostates...) to pee. Pulse and BP drop, and so does the person.

Have seen a guy Koed from a body shot. Probably did that.
 

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OK so when this discussion comes up generally the vegas nerve gets mentioned. Which is a hospital thing.

You ever seen that used?
Vagus nerve is a nerve that comes directly off the brain and goes to the heart, lungs, and part of the digestive tract. It doesn’t come anywhere near the knee and/or lower leg.

It’s significant in neck injuries, not leg injuries.
 

drop bear

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Vagus nerve is a nerve that comes directly off the brain and goes to the heart, lungs, and part of the digestive tract. It doesn’t come anywhere near the knee and/or lower leg.

It’s significant in neck injuries, not leg injuries.

Oooooookaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy..............

I will bear that in mind.
 

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Trivia: One of the most common reasons for seeing someone in the ED for fainting is "bathroom syncope" which is, essentially, stimulation of the vagus nerve by bearing down to poop or (mostly for guys with big prostates...) to pee. Pulse and BP drop, and so does the person.

Note to self...buy stool softener
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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I have no experience with people on PCP, so use a grain of salt here...

I’ve seen several actual knee dislocations (I’m not talking about the knee cap aka patella, but actual knee) and tibia fractures (the shin actually snapping). There’s no way anyone is going to bear weight on that, even if they’re completely numb. That’s not a pain resistance thing, that’s an anatomy and physics thing.

If they’re completely numb they may be able to hop on the other leg, but that’s about it.
I was taught the popliteal artery is a major concern in knee dislocations and as such. Does it rupture frequently? I’ve always Air splinted, monitored pedal pulse and called an ambulance whenever I had them occur. I had 3 reduce themselves, and the other 5 didn’t, as they were pretty far out.

And the tibial fractures I’m referring to are the ones with a gross deformity. Hairline fractures, stress fractures aren’t what I was referring to when I said “as in the shin actually snapping.” Have you seen anyone bear weight on a compound tibial fracture?

Not being argumentative, just looking for viewpoints from a guy who’s seen more of this stuff than I have as an ATC.
Dirty dog answered these a lot better than I could have, but here's an answer from the perspective of the user (not myself-my clients who have informed me of such things). Take this with a grain of salt too; drug users don't tend to be the most reliable storytellers. From what they've told me, when on PCP they (may) literally not respond to anything shy of being literally knocked out. One guy in particular I'm thinking of is 40 years old and uses a cane/walker depending on the day. When I asked him what happened, he explained to me that either his knee or hip (not sure which, I haven't seen him in almost a year) got hurt by a cop while he was on a rage. He had no idea until after he was knocked out and woke up later in the hospital.

Again, take it with a grain of salt; he may have had a benzo in his system and so he just blacked out and doesn't remember the pain, or he may have been lying to try to mess with me. But that was his story.
 

Tez3

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Trivia: One of the most common reasons for seeing someone in the ED for fainting is "bathroom syncope" which is, essentially, stimulation of the vagus nerve by bearing down to poop or (mostly for guys with big prostates...) to pee. Pulse and BP drop, and so does the person.

There was a huge fuss about the death of British tycoon Robert Maxwell some years ago, some saying he was murdered but it was found to be accidental, what was thought happened was that he up early one morning went onto the deck, he went to pee over the side and passed out falling into the sea. His heart which wasn't healthy then gave out.
 

JR 137

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I’ve always wanted to find a pressure point that would immediately relax the bladder. I’d practice hitting that one every day to the point that I could hit anyone there whenever I wanted to.

How cool would it be to have a guy in your face acting all tough and make them piss their pants in front of everyone? The rest of the fight wouldn’t matter much, if it even took place after that.
 

drop bear

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I’ve always wanted to find a pressure point that would immediately relax the bladder. I’d practice hitting that one every day to the point that I could hit anyone there whenever I wanted to.

How cool would it be to have a guy in your face acting all tough and make them piss their pants in front of everyone? The rest of the fight wouldn’t matter much, if it even took place after that.

I made a guy crap his pants in a fight. It was pretty icky to be honest.
 

Danny T

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I do. Not as a user, of course, but I've had to subdue and treat people who were on PCP.
It has no affect on strength. It does make it possible to ignore pain that would otherwise be debilitating.

And yet, I've had more than one person walk into my ED with tibial fractures, without needing to be on drugs. There are fractures and there are fractures. It's generally a mistake to make such broad sweeping generalizations.
IMG_1106.JPG
Here's a fractured Fibula
One of my students. Walked around for 3 days thinking he had a badly bruised leg from a hard low kick.
 

JR 137

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View attachment 21075
Here's a fractured Fibula
One of my students. Walked around for 3 days thinking he had a badly bruised leg from a hard low kick.

Was he on a 3 day PCP bender?
:)

I’ve seen a lot of people walk on a fractured fibula. It doesn’t bear much weight. It’ll typically be most painful during stuff like pivoting, lateral movement, or hard direction changes.

I couldn’t imagine someone walking on that same fracture in the tibia though (the bone right next to it), regardless of how numb they were. But I’ll defer to Dirty Dog who’s seen far more of them than I have.
 
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