Police Combatives?

[Drac]

IMHO don't use the Yellow, Red or Blue guns..Use what ya carry on duty..Just have a senior officer or the Range Officer inspect each officers firearm at the begining of class insure the there is no round in the chamber and the mag is empty, ditto that the mags in the duty belt are empty and the officer is NOT carrying a back up gun..There are a few horror stories out there about instructors that were shot and wounded by a back up weapon that was not checked...

I attended a class like that..Weapons were inspected anytime an officer left the room and re-entered..

 

[KenpoTex]

IMHO don't use the Yellow, Red or Blue guns..Use what ya carry on duty..Just have a senior officer or the Range Officer inspect each officers firearm at the begining of class insure the there is no round in the chamber and the mag is empty, ditto that the mags in the duty belt are empty and the officer is NOT carrying a back up gun..There are a few horror stories out there about instructors that were shot and wounded by a back up weapon that was not checked...

I attended a class like that..Weapons were inspected anytime an officer left the room and re-entered..

Blade-tech training barrels are a good, low-cost option for this type of training. Cheaper than red/blue/yellow guns and can be had for the common service weapons on the market.
http://www.blade-tech.com/Training-Barrel-pr-1018.html

 

[jks9199]

There's a similar product that doesn't replace the barrel entirely, but is "chambered" and a plastic rod runs the length of the barrel; either is a good, inexpensive tool to confront a major risk of training.

I'm also a fan of using blue guns/red guns or other non-firing weapons for training. I recently was at a FATS facility, and they shared an eye-opening story. They had a group of SWAT operators in one day, and they'd been training hard all day. One officer was very wrapped up watching a scenario which he'd seen several times -- and at a point where he anticipated needing to fire (remember -- he's an observer this time!), he found himself drawing his own gun! Fortunately -- it was unloaded.

There are times and reasons to do training with a variety of different implements, like non-firing guns, Sims/marking cartridges, or even just Airsoft-type guns. But you must use appropriate safety inspection, too. When we do any training and are using our real guns, we conduct a double safety check. TWO people check each participant for ammo & to be sure the gun is empty. Anytime someone leaves the training area, the check is repeated.

 

[Drac]

There's a similar product that doesn't replace the barrel entirely, but is "chambered" and a plastic rod runs the length of the barrel; either is a good, inexpensive tool to confront a major risk of training.

I'm also a fan of using blue guns/red guns or other non-firing weapons for training. I recently was at a FATS facility, and they shared an eye-opening story. They had a group of SWAT operators in one day, and they'd been training hard all day. One officer was very wrapped up watching a scenario which he'd seen several times -- and at a point where he anticipated needing to fire (remember -- he's an observer this time!), he found himself drawing his own gun! Fortunately -- it was unloaded.

There are times and reasons to do training with a variety of different implements, like non-firing guns, Sims/marking cartridges, or even just Airsoft-type guns. But you must use appropriate safety inspection, too. When we do any training and are using our real guns, we conduct a double safety check. TWO people check each participant for ammo & to be sure the gun is empty. Anytime someone leaves the training area, the check is repeated.

The folks at www.blueguns.com make training handguns in black..You have to be an officer or an academy trainer to order them I think as they are VERY REALISTIC looking..The first time at a seminar when one was pulled on me I swear I reacted faster than I did with the red or blue guns..

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

IMHO don't use the Yellow, Red or Blue guns..Use what ya carry on duty..Just have a senior officer or the Range Officer inspect each officers firearm at the begining of class insure the there is no round in the chamber and the mag is empty, ditto that the mags in the duty belt are empty and the officer is NOT carrying a back up gun..There are a few horror stories out there about instructors that were shot and wounded by a back up weapon that was not checked...

I attended a class like that..Weapons were inspected anytime an officer left the room and re-entered..

I utilize yellow and blue guns and also the blade tech barrel replacements. They all are effective!

 

[Drac]

I utilize yellow and blue guns and also the blade tech barrel replacements. They all are effective!

In all actuality it doesnt really matter what color the weapon is..As long as your training with them.. A buddy who is a narco detective in Cleveland took a loaded Browning Desert Eagle off of a 15 year old kid not too long ago..The bad guys always seem to have weapons and will not hesitate to use them..Be ready, train hard and often...

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

In all actuality it doesnt really matter what color the weapon is..As long as your training with them.. A buddy who is a narco detective in Cleveland took a loaded Browning Desert Eagle off of a 15 year old kid not too long ago..The bad guys always seem to have weapons and will not hesitate to use them..Be ready, train hard and often...

Absolutely Drac!

 

[jks9199]

In all actuality it doesnt really matter what color the weapon is..As long as your training with them.. A buddy who is a narco detective in Cleveland took a loaded Browning Desert Eagle off of a 15 year old kid not too long ago..The bad guys always seem to have weapons and will not hesitate to use them..Be ready, train hard and often...

Another thing about color...

There are several companies out there powder coating guns in all sorts of colors as well as idiots painting the tip of the barrel of a real gun orange. I don't care what color the gun is -- if it looks like a gun, it is one.

An agency is my area is currently taking some heat for shooting a schizophrenic kid because he had a bb-gun. I feel for the family. But, even based on their account as reported by the Washington Post (not exactly a cop-friendly paper!), I absolutely support the shooting. The kid had a weapon. Most bb-guns look a lot like a regular gun, especially if you're not actually holding it. The split second to figure out what color or whatever else to try to decide if it's a real gun could all too easily cost a cop his life. If it looks like a gun -- it is a gun until proven differently. And it's loaded.

 

[Drac]

Another thing about color...

There are several companies out there powder coating guns in all sorts of colors as well as idiots painting the tip of the barrel of a real gun orange. I don't care what color the gun is -- if it looks like a gun, it is one.

An agency is my area is currently taking some heat for shooting a schizophrenic kid because he had a bb-gun. I feel for the family. But, even based on their account as reported by the Washington Post (not exactly a cop-friendly paper!), I absolutely support the shooting. The kid had a weapon. Most bb-guns look a lot like a regular gun, especially if you're not actually holding it. The split second to figure out what color or whatever else to try to decide if it's a real gun could all too easily cost a cop his life. If it looks like a gun -- it is a gun until proven differently. And it's loaded.

WOW, I had forgotten about the powder coated guns..Yes, they can look like toys..Your last line says it best...

 

[punisher73]

Our department uses an aluminum glock that is the same size and weight as a loaded glock. I can't remember what company it is that we got them from, but it is a very good training tool since it has the weight and feel of the real thing, but has the safety of a redgun.

Combatives aren't all about protecting yourself IN the fight. Too many departments are worried about THIER *** after the fight and if the person sues. There are many effective tools that an officer can develop that you won't find in police combatives, because

1) Requires skill to learn and retain
2) Might look bad to bystanders
3) Requires a basic fitness to perform

Combatives are designed by the beancounters to say that all their officers were trained and qualified and that they don't have to practice the moves to remember them the next time they need to get certified.

The way some departments act, you start to think they would rather have an officer in the ground that pay out in a high money lawsuit.

 

[Drac]

I fought an uphill battle for about 15 years concerning teaching officers some updated SD techniques. The negative receprion I got came mostly from the officers.." Man", They should have done that 10 years ago when we were younger". "I only have about 5 years before I retire, I dont plan on getting involved in anything"..My favorite is " If they want us to learn that " karotty" crap why did they give a gun" are among my favorites..Some of the supervisors were also just as negative..When I told one day shift Sgts that I was heading out to a seminar to learn Defenses Against a Knife his response was " Ya know what I wanna learn Drac?" NOTHING!!!! Another favorite from that higher-ups was " The skills I aquired in the academy will serve me well...Ya mean the skills ya learned 18 years ago that you have not practiced since??