Police Combatives?
- Thread starter Hudson69
- Start date
dbell
Blue Belt
This group has a pretty effective system: http://www.policetacticsinstructors.org/
Grandmaster Vincent Marchetti does a very good job of teaching police tactics that work.
Grandmaster Vincent Marchetti does a very good job of teaching police tactics that work.
Allen a.k.a. Destroyer
Yellow Belt
www.dsihq.com
This is Grandmaster Pellegrini's business site. I have not personally experienced his "police combatives"... but the man impressed me in a seminar on Combat Hapkido.
You would know that is not an easy thing to do if you knew me.
The military combatives program is a heck of a program too if you're that into extra training. I thought Hapkido was nasty... GM P's Combat Hapkido takes that to the nth power. His IPDTI has to be an amazing program. Definitely worth checking out. Look at the seminars list on there and see if there's anything near you within the next year or so. And of course the school list can help you find the program as well, I'm sure.
This is Grandmaster Pellegrini's business site. I have not personally experienced his "police combatives"... but the man impressed me in a seminar on Combat Hapkido.
You would know that is not an easy thing to do if you knew me.
The military combatives program is a heck of a program too if you're that into extra training. I thought Hapkido was nasty... GM P's Combat Hapkido takes that to the nth power. His IPDTI has to be an amazing program. Definitely worth checking out. Look at the seminars list on there and see if there's anything near you within the next year or so. And of course the school list can help you find the program as well, I'm sure.
I agree..I was looking for something to add to my training toolbox and saw the ad for Combat Hapkido and that they had a police training program..I drove to NC for an intensive weekend in 2003 and have been with it ever since. I took the week long Controlled FORCE instructors program a few years prior and just wasnt that impressed with it, though some officers I met swear by it.I think it was the instructors that started the seminar by making the statement that ALL martial arts were ********..
I don't think there's a "best" and I'm not familiar enough with any of the choices to rate them...
The truth is that a rookie LEO needs to learn enough skills rapidly to defend themselves in a fight to the death -- and to use a controlled response appropriate to the situation, too! It's a pretty big bill to fill. They need some basic strikes (fist, elbows, and open hands, as well as kicks and knees...), as well as throws and holds. They need to be exposed to the reality of being hit -- because more and more kids today have never really been hit. And they need practice applying these skills in realistic situations, because on day 1, they might need them. Whatever training vehicle works to do this is good... and if it doesn't do this, it's not. It's that simple. And that complex... because I didn't include other skills that fall under the DT arena, like handcuffing, officer safety tactics, how to do searches... and lots more. Or the very limited time available. And the skills have to be able to be retained well with little refresher training.
The truth is that a rookie LEO needs to learn enough skills rapidly to defend themselves in a fight to the death -- and to use a controlled response appropriate to the situation, too! It's a pretty big bill to fill. They need some basic strikes (fist, elbows, and open hands, as well as kicks and knees...), as well as throws and holds. They need to be exposed to the reality of being hit -- because more and more kids today have never really been hit. And they need practice applying these skills in realistic situations, because on day 1, they might need them. Whatever training vehicle works to do this is good... and if it doesn't do this, it's not. It's that simple. And that complex... because I didn't include other skills that fall under the DT arena, like handcuffing, officer safety tactics, how to do searches... and lots more. Or the very limited time available. And the skills have to be able to be retained well with little refresher training.
Well said Jks9199 it is a very wide bill to fill. Very hard to train someone from scratch and get them ready after a weekend or in the case of an academy a few months of training or roughly 20 to 40 hours of Defensive Tactics, Handcuffing, Firearms, etc. That is a big bill to fill. Truthfully most systems geared towards LEO's do just okay given the time frame that they have. Still regularly quarterly training or more would ingrain these skills effectively but unfortunately most departments do not want to spend the time, effort and money to ensure officer safety.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
The only one I have any experience with is the one they teach the police and military in China and that is Sanda. As for which one is the best, I couldn't tell you I have no experience with any other and even if I did it is likely I still couldnt tell you which is best or rate them in anyway.
All I can say about Sanda is what my sifu said. Sanda is not the best martial art it is just a quick way to learn how to hurt someone very badly.
All I can say about Sanda is what my sifu said. Sanda is not the best martial art it is just a quick way to learn how to hurt someone very badly.
And that's the hell of it...Only the most progressive will schedule something like regular training...I tried to get my department to do it and was given EVERY excuse in the book...When the State of Ohio came up with a mandatory updated training they prefered to sit us in a classroom and bore us with some BS that did notthing for officer survival..
It is crazy to me how many military personnel and LEO's I have met who have very poor hand to hand (and shooting) skills. I know everything comes down to time and money, but it's scary where some of these guys skill levels are, given the danger they face regularly.
One thing I see pretty commonly that strikes me as curious; A lot of guys in the area are training in styles where, in my estimation, much of the techniques and movements would become very difficult and impractical while wearing vest/armor, utility belt loaded, boots etc... That has to be a factor, doesn't it?
One thing I see pretty commonly that strikes me as curious; A lot of guys in the area are training in styles where, in my estimation, much of the techniques and movements would become very difficult and impractical while wearing vest/armor, utility belt loaded, boots etc... That has to be a factor, doesn't it?
Very true...I know officers that will hit the range 2 -3 time a week and spend x amount of dollars on ammo..But the suggestion they attend one hand to hand class and the whining starts..Or the other old standby line of " I dont need any of that kar-otty crap as long as I have my pistol.".
Very true...I told the cadets in the academy to go home and dress for works and try one of your spinning jump kicks..
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
A friend of mine, who recently retired form the PD, always preferred styles like Aikido and Bagua and things like Qinna for that very reason. He could do it dressed for work.
One of the things I look at when I'm looking at books, articles, or demonstrations that are supposed to be police defensive tactics is what the people are wearing. They don't have to have a gunbelt, etc. on in every picture or every part of it -- but it better be there for a fair number of them. Because it does effect how you move and what you can do...
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
I did actually talk to him about that a while back (since I never wore a gunbelt and did SD I was wondering how that effected any MA he did) and he pretty much agreed. There was a world of difference between SD with the Gun belt and SD without it.
When Master Steve and I put on an IPDTI class we make wearing a gunbelt MANDATORY..One officer/trainer I met did a class where ya wore your complete uniform, vest and gun belt..It opened a lot of eyes..
To me, there's a place for both. It's often easier to learn some things without the gunbelt (it's easier and often kinder to the other guy, who won't find an ASP with his groin during a hip throw, for example) -- but you have to move into having it on at some point, too. Our academy has even moved on to having recruits in body armor for DT training...
I think training in both is essential. I know regular BJJ or any grappling changes dramatically when the gun belt is on. You also have to take into account on how you pass, move, etc. as you do not want to present your firearm/tool's to combatant while you are trying to arrest them. Unfortunately few address these issues and when they do it is infrequent at best and departments do not want to spend the time/effort and of course the money to protect their officer's.
I agree..In the beginning it is kinder to have no equipment on..
Absolutely and then you eventually work into having the gunbelt on. Recently when teaching a couple of MSP officer's up here we concentrated on working some grappling without their belts on. Then after they were more proficient with the techniques we put the belts on and continued to train. It certainly helped them develop the technique and then reinforced exactly why we were going to one side or another to protect access to their firearm.
It certainly helped them develop the technique and then reinforced exactly why we were going to one side or another to protect access to their firearm.
Weapon retention is a VERY NECESSARY and much needed aspect of any DT program, and some of the ones I've seen don't spend nearly enough time on that topic..
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Absolutely Drac it is an essential skill set that needs to be addressed by any Defensive Tactics program!
